158 réponses à ce sujet

[phoray]

Here's some hypocrisy; I told Leliana not to kill the Chantry sister. She does anyway. I object to her kidnapping a political rivals son. She does it anyway. Where is my option to kick her to the curb? Discuss my concerns about Lel with the other advisors? How can I have control over Solas murdering some stupid mages, but I can't tell Lel not to kidnap a kid?

By not being allowed to do those things, my character must obviously begrudgingly agree with her actions. That's awful hypocrisy right there considering all my dialogue choices.

[GoldenGail3]

"I removed compromise because there is no compromise." "A quick death now or a slow death later."
 
Meredith is mad on red lyrium. She wasn't open to compromise, paranoid beyond reason and was slowly squeezing life out of the Circle -- lashing out on them because she couldn't catch the "apostates" outside the Circle causing the real trouble. Using Tranquility against Chantry law. Keeping Cullen in the dark about questionable things he'd never approve of. Turning on the Circle mages with the Right of Annulment for a crime they didn't commit is a big deal  -- Templars are meant to protect mages, and that's something Anders was trying to prove. She's not interested in shielding them from the aftermath of Anders' actions, only using it to justify slaying them. They were innocent of that. It feels like you're underestimating how corrupted she is. Both of them have mental instability, not just Anders. He consistently turned to Elthina for help, to resolve some of the issues, but she wouldn't budge because she's also part of the Chanrty. There's evidence that he at least tried at some point.

I'd like to think of everyone in Kirkwall as insane. Seriously, insanity is a part of life there - Varric may do it some justice if you ask me. I don't undermast how insane Ethina is - I think you undermast how deadly a abomation can be - if left unchecked. I would also like to point out that if you rival him he also tries to fight back against Justice- unlike friendship Anders, who's also slowly getting corrupted as well. I think that Friendship Anders is too batshite insane and corrupt to fully realize what he's done, while rival Anders does... Slightly...

But otherwise, I do agree with the first part though. Yeah, Merdith was mad becuase of red Lyrium, the First Enchantor turned into a monster, and Ethina was totally useless to stop them.

[GoldenGail3]

Here's some hypocrisy; I told Leliana not to kill the Chantry sister. She does anyway. I object to her kidnapping a political rivals son. She does it anyway. Where is my option to kick her to the curb? Discuss my concerns about Lel with the other advisors? How can I have control over Solas murdering some stupid mages, but I can't tell Lel not to kidnap a kid?
By not being allowed to do those things, my character must obviously begrudgingly agree with her actions. That's awful hypocrisy right there considering all my dialogue choices.

Did you happen to say nothing when she was hunting a spy in Haven?

[Nocte ad Mortem]

I felt my Hawke had become a huge hypocrite after returning and going on constantly about how bad blood magic and the Wardens were, considering the two people he's probably closest to in the world (Carver and Anders) were Wardens and he consistently supported Merrill's use of blood magic. It was really strange for me and didn't seem to fit the character I played at all.

[phoray]

Did you happen to say nothing when she was hunting a spy in Haven?

I understand how to get a softened Leliana. But I feel then and I feel now that if a spy you've known and worked with sold secrets to get another spy killed, then yeah, kill the double crossing spy. He knows too much and he's a murderer.

But the Chantry Sister just had different religious beliefs; she believes sincerely that we're heretics. and it's never implied that she had any other agenda other than to gather info on Leliana and the Divine's little present. I see no attempt to murder me or Leliana in the situation; she was shocked I was there at all. Regardless, if she was going to try, she never got the chance; there was two of us anyway, she wouldn't take us both down And she certainly wasn't a double crossing spy, she was just a bad one.

Zevran literally tried to murder me and I recruited him anyway. Why would I want the Chantry sister to die for doing a bit of spying about an ambiguous message in a box?

As a side note, I played a pacifist elf that discouraged the spy murder and got a softened Leliana in that play through. But I have yet to play a character that thought it was a bad idea to kill the double crossing spy on anything but philosophical grounds

[GoldenGail3]

I felt my Hawke had become a huge hypocrite after returning and going on constantly about how bad blood magic and the Wardens were, considering the two people he's probably closest to in the world (Carver and Anders) were Wardens and he consistently supported Merrill's use of blood magic. It was really strange for me and didn't seem to fit the character I played at all.

My Hawke was a blood Mage and he complained about Blood Magic... I know what you mean (other person, Pearl, can we not dicuss it any futher? Tis is a tiresome topic and I'm not even taking myself seriously about my supposed and weak arguments... )

[vertigomez]

My Brosca Wardens always spare Zevran and Loghain because they, above all people, believe in second chances. I'd definitely feel like a hypocrite - or at least ruthless - if I executed them.

Sometimes I as a player feel like a hypocrite because I really like Bull, who has an identity crisis, but I'm less fond of Leliana's identity crisis and am fairly neutral about Sebastian's.

[vertigomez]

Oh, and the state of Anders versus Sigrid, Wynne, or Cole. I never know what to make of all these possessed people and/or spirits! So my decisions probably contradict each other here.

Fortunately there are different PCs making those decisions...

[PapaCharlie9]

You think to be an hypocrite you need to do an action?
 

I can't tell if this is intentionally ironic or a true example of poor reading comprehension.

It appears that Google's dictionary would answer your question with "yes."
 
I'm also puzzled by these two writing samples:

Without lie
How many times did you picked answers just to get the approval of a companions?
How many times you let Zevran join your team just to get a new companion?
How many times did you let Morrigan drank from the well just because you liked her character?*
How many times did you pretended to be interested in Solas hobbies just to get his approval?

 

The difference is that Anders is an abomination with a demon inside him that can blow up every city he wants, he is a danger for everyone. The point isn't "kill him because he killed innocent people", he is not even human, and don't come here with the discussion of Solas that spirits are people, Solas knows nothing.

The first sample has problems of verb tense, number, and possession. That is not unusual for someone using English as a second language.

The second sample has all of those parts of grammar correct, and uses contractions correctly, which is unusual for someone using English as a second language.

I'm at a loss to explain these differences. Google translate just got lucky? Time of day of the post? Two different people posting under the same name? A mask slipping a little when the topic becomes more impassioned?

[AlanC9]

Without lie
How many times did you picked answers just to get the approval of a companions?
How many times you let Zevran join your team just to get a new companion?
How many times did you let Morrigan drank from the well just because you liked her character?*
How many times did you pretended to be interested in Solas hobbies just to get his approval?

In order:

Several times. My PCs are often no better than I am, and IRL it's often useful to go along to get along.

A couple of times, maybe, but I have trouble RPing people ruthless enough to execute prisoners out-of-hand.

Never and never. Actually, none of my Inquisitors have drunk yet.

And yeah, "hypocrisy" isn't really the right concept here.

[Toasted Llama]

1. My characters are not set in stone, they can agree with 2 completely polar opposite companions if their arguments are good. Other than that, during my first blind playthroughs I manage to befriend most people (except Solas.... coincidence? I THI--maybe.) while staying true to one opinion.

2. Once on the blind first playthrough. Afterwards it's a matter of "does it fit with this character or not?".

3. For my second playhrough and beyond; again, depends on the character. For my first playthrough: I like Morrigan a lot, but sweet maker I am not letting my Lavellan drink some weird ass super juice that talks solely because 'muh elves'. Morrigan was my willfull lab rat.

4. He wasn't my friend my first playthrough so nope.

[Iakus]

Without lie

How many times did you picked answers just to get the approval of a companions?

How many times you let Zevran join your team just to get a new companion?

How many times did you let Morrigan drank from the well just because you liked her character?*

How many times did you pretended to be interested in Solas hobbies just to get his approval?

-DAI actually makes it easier to say whatever you want, since conversations are not gated by approval

-I dunno, the first time, maybe? Zev's a pretty cool guy to hang around with when he's not trying to kill you.  "Some of my best friends have tried to kill me" as my Warden told Nate Howe

-Actually, whether I let her drink or not has nothing to do with liking her character.  It's based on whether my inquisitor is willing to take the risk himself.  Some are willing, some not

-I'm inquisitive by nature.  Not my fault he likes that.  Even when I disagree with him a lot, I typically end up with high approval 

[Domakir]

Without lie

How many times did you picked answers just to get the approval of a companions?

How many times you let Zevran join your team just to get a new companion?

How many times did you let Morrigan drank from the well just because you liked her character?*

How many times did you pretended to be interested in Solas hobbies just to get his approval?

1 - Always. 

2 - Always. I like to get all the companions and it seems Zevran is to weak for the warden so he can't do anything.

3 - Never. Some say that Morrigan learns from her mistakes and I agree but I still don't like to let her drink especially when she has a son. And I enjoy the thought of having a character with access to ancient knowledge.

4 - I actually think that what he says it's interesting so I've never pretended. My brother on the other hand... well... he always skips Solas' conversations. 

[Lezio]

Without lie

How many times did you picked answers just to get the approval of a companions?

How many times you let Zevran join your team just to get a new companion?

How many times did you let Morrigan drank from the well just because you liked her character?*

How many times did you pretended to be interested in Solas hobbies just to get his approval?

 

Well, for me hypocrisy is believing one thing and then doing the opposite, without acknowledging the, well, hypocrisy of that. Or acknowledging and trying to excuse it

 

Like, for example, my main Warden worked for both Harrowmont and Bhelen, but i wouldn't call him an hypocrit for it because he didn't believe in one cause or the other, he just wanted to help the Casteless and get an army.

 

So, yeah, most of my characters are capable of lying, but don't actually sell out their beliefs for one reason or another. My Hawke probably gets closer to being one, because she procted Bethany with all she had while also selling out other mages to the templars to keep them off their (the Hawkes) backs

[Gold Dragon]

I understand how to get a softened Leliana. But I feel then and I feel now that if a spy you've known and worked with sold secrets to get another spy killed, then yeah, kill the double crossing spy. He knows too much and he's a murderer.

But the Chantry Sister just had different religious beliefs; she believes sincerely that we're heretics. and it's never implied that she had any other agenda other than to gather info on Leliana and the Divine's little present. I see no attempt to murder me or Leliana in the situation; she was shocked I was there at all. Regardless, if she was going to try, she never got the chance; there was two of us anyway, she wouldn't take us both down And she certainly wasn't a double crossing spy, she was just a bad one.

Zevran literally tried to murder me and I recruited him anyway. Why would I want the Chantry sister to die for doing a bit of spying about an ambiguous message in a box?

As a side note, I played a pacifist elf that discouraged the spy murder and got a softened Leliana in that play through. But I have yet to play a character that thought it was a bad idea to kill the double crossing spy on anything but philosophical grounds

If the Spy is killed, she will ALWAYS kill the sister.

 

A truly good spymaster could make it so that death is a mercy......  Death shouldn't be a first choice, anyways...

[Spirit Vanguard]

I'd like to think of everyone in Kirkwall as insane. Seriously, insanity is a part of life there - Varric may do it some justice if you ask me. I don't undermast how insane Ethina is - I think you undermast how deadly a abomation can be - if left unchecked. I would also like to point out that if you rival him he also tries to fight back against Justice- unlike friendship Anders, who's also slowly getting corrupted as well. I think that Friendship Anders is too batshite insane and corrupt to fully realize what he's done, while rival Anders does... Slightly...
But otherwise, I do agree with the first part though. Yeah, Merdith was mad becuase of red Lyrium, the First Enchantor turned into a monster, and Ethina was totally useless to stop them.

Haha, yes. Insanity is an inherent quality of Kirkwall. That whole city has too horrific a history to be competent at anything else.

My point wasn't that Anders isn't dangerous but that Meredith is too. The entire situation was so far out of control that it's only inevitable that something catastrophic would've happened. Elthina wouldn't speak against the Chantry, but by doing nothing she does something. "Even inaction is a decision."

Personally, I think there's a gray area when it come to abominations. Wynne, after all, was an abomination by definition and yet wasn't a ravenous, mindless beat. Anders struggled because of the nature of his situation and I'm truly saddened by it. Justice and Anders were my 2 favorite companions of Awakening, and now...

I don't think friendship with Anders makes him "weaker" than rivalry. It's stated that his friendship with Hawke is one of few things holding him together. Him and Justice are merged. There's no real fighting that beyond controlling himself. I know Anders will realize he might've made a mistake and suffers "blackouts" on rivalry, but even in friendship he still knows what he's done is morally reprehensible. It kind of looked to me that Justice is more aggressive in rivalry than friendship. I'm not so sure that inciting conflict between them is helpful when Anders can be helped to control himself instead of fight within himself. Ultimately, though, there's no stopping what will come.

[LobselVith8]

I don't think friendship with Anders makes him "weaker" than rivalry. It's stated that his friendship with Hawke is one of few things holding him together. Him and Justice are merged. There's no real fighting that behind controlling himself. I know Anders will realize he might've made a mistake and suffers "blackouts" on rivalry, but even in friendship he still knows what he's done is morally reprehensible. It kind of looked to me that Justice is more aggressive in rivalry than friendship. I'm not so sure that inciting conflict between them is helpful when Anders can be helped to control himself instead of fight within himself. Ultimately, though, there's no stopping what will come.

 

I've always liked to think that Anders headed to the kingdom of Rivain and sought the advice of the seers on how to co-exist with Justice, given how they seem to have successfully merged with spirits for over a millennia (and Cole's quest does suggest that they can provide aid that others can't in the matters of spirits).

[Serza]

Not once, dear Arshei. And you? How many dozens of times?

[Ghost Gal]

Actually, this is the first game where I decided to stay completely in-character and have my character make chioces she would make even if it meant losing out on approval or companions.

 

To my surprise and delight, a lot of things I probably would have done anyway came naturally. My female Lavellan grudgingly agreed to take Iron Bull on (though warned him that if he took one step out of line, he'd have Leliana to answer for), legitimately agreed with and enjoyed hearing opinions from Solas, and shouldered Morrigan out of the way to drink from the Well despite knowing the risk of becoming Mythal's creature.

 

The only things I missed out on were Sera's and Vivienne's friendship, since my Keeper's First refused to blindly agree with Sera's anti-elf views and Vivienne's anti-mage views. However, given how unlikable she found those two; nothing of value was lost.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

The only time I remember doing something for approval is when choosing whether Cole should be more spirit or more human. At the time I didn't really have a strong opinion about which was better, but figured I needed Solas approval more than Varric approval because Varric already liked me.

[Gervaise]

Sometimes I do wish they wouldn't tie doing companion quests to how high your approval is with them.   Iron Bull was one where I felt it was particularly difficult to justify it.   Either the Qun wish to work with the Inquisition or they don't.   Admittedly they might not want an alliance with an organisation led by someone with such totally different view on life to their own but considering the organisation itself was set up on the mandate of a religious leader, which is a total odds with their philosophy, that really negates that argument.   How Bull personally views the Inquisitor shouldn't come into it, yet my first run I discover the difference between not getting his personal quest and doing so, was a simple matter of killing a dragon.    That has nothing to do with my political views but purely what seems to turn Bull on personally.   A good spy wouldn't allow his personal feelings to get in the way of accurate reporting to his superiors.  

 

So my first ever run, because I left Bull on the bench much of the time and he didn't approve of many of my early decisions, every time I clicked on him in Skyhold, I merely got "Hi boss," and nothing more.    I actually engaged in more conversation with Krem than Bull and it was Krem who suggested the uses to which the Chargers could be put.   After finishing the game I read about how there was some quest involving a decision over the Chargers and realised I had missed out on something really important.   I back tracked to an earlier point, took Bull out to kill the dragon and hey presto suddenly I'm drinking with the Chargers and being asked to work with the Qun.   All my decisions up to that point had been exactly the same so it was purely the dragon hunt that made the difference.

 

Yet it would seem that not all companion quests were dependent on approval.    I didn't get along with Vivienne at all first run, yet she still asked me to get the wyvern heart for her.    Sera's initial quest was dependent on doing a certain war table mission, or it seemed that way since she was another person I really didn't get along with first time round.    Blackwall's happens regardless provided certain plot lines had been completed.    I assume Cole's is the same.

 

Dorian's made sense being related to your approval level, since Giselle makes it clear that they are worried about his influence on you, which is not going to be the case if you don't get along.    I'm not sure, since my approval has never been that low with Cassandra, but I assume she only brings up the Seekers if your approval is high enough, since it varies when she does this in game.  In which case, I suppose that makes sense because she doesn't want to involve you in Seeker matters if she doesn't approve of you.     Solas though is another one which seems tied to approval but where you'd think he'd want to help his friend regardless, so it is harder to understand why it is linked in that way.

[Catilina]

Without lie

How many times did you picked answers just to get the approval of a companions?

[...]

Not really. And do not necessary.

 

DA:O:

My Wardens always have enough persuation, then they not necessary to lie.

 

DA 2:

I easily reached the 100% friendship with Fenris as pro mage, in turn my Hawke always told his opinion honest, for example at Gallows (all Mages needs freedom blahblah), and at Hadriana ("Let's don't forget, who you are talking to!")

But because the friendship was so easy, i not risked the rivalry with him (with pro mage Hawke too – but I dont know why, the rivalry path with Fenris seems harder than the friendship for me): then I do not killed Danzig, after Fenris interrogate him. This was the one thing, what I do for Fenris' rivalry.

 

DA:I

Also unnecessary to lie:

Karl have very good reputation with all companion (include "You-looks-terrible" Vivienne) – except Sera: the noble Karl can't tolerate her attitudes. 

But:

He was committed for mage freedom, and this fact he often declare (for example Vivienne hate this, and Cassandra do not like)

Tranqulized Erimond, because Karl hates it when someone insolent against him, Erimond was too arrogant to his taste – deserved his punishment.  (f. e. Solas, Cole, Dorian hate this decision);

Kept Wardens on theirs duty (f. e. Solas hate this)

However he care about all companions, talk with them frequently, and finished theirs personal quests.

 

To the another questions:

2. Always recruited Zevran, because he is a good character (but a bit annoying...).

3. Karl drank from the well, because he want to drank from the well.

4. I like Solas' conversations.

[thebigbad1013]

How many times did you picked answers just to get the approval of a companions? I always pick what my character would do in any given situation, so none, as far as I can remember.

 

How many times you let Zevran join your team just to get a new companion? I always recruit Zevran because I like him.

 

How many times did you let Morrigan drank from the well just because you liked her character? Same as number one, I pick what my character would pick so again, none.

 

How many times did you pretended to be interested in Solas hobbies just to get his approval? None. I quite like Solas.

[PhroXenGold]

Without lie

How many times did you picked answers just to get the approval of a companions?

How many times you let Zevran join your team just to get a new companion?

How many times did you let Morrigan drank from the well just because you liked her character?*

How many times did you pretended to be interested in Solas hobbies just to get his approval?

 

As this is an RPG, I make the decisions that I believe the character I am playing would make. So:

1 - Some of my characters have done if it fits their personalities. But to be honest, that kind of thing is pretty central to human interaction: little white lies to get people to like you more.

2 - All the time. Companions are weapons to fight the blight with, so to turn him down would be to betray your duty as a warden.

3 - Not had a character do that yet. Those that have let her drank have done so because they aren't prepared to do so themselves. Maybe I'll play one sometime who trusts her and considers her character to be such that she deserves to drink it regardless.

4 - Sometimes. Hell, my most canon inquisitor, who ended up romancing him, did this to some extent. She found the stuff he told her about elves fascinating, but wasn't really that interested in getting all buddy-buddy with spirits, yet she pretended to be interested in the latter as she had a crush on Solas. Again, this is perfectly normal behaviour for people and is hardly worth remarking on.

[Sah291]

I always feel the need to recruit every companion for some reason....even the ones I don't use in party, or don't like, or fail to get approval with...I don't know why, I feel like I'm missing content otherwise. But DAI was the first time I felt like I didn't really need to do that every single time. If you don't have high enough approval you are locked out of some of their content anyway.