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How many times this game made you an hypocrite?


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#126
In Exile

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I understand how to get a softened Leliana. But I feel then and I feel now that if a spy you've known and worked with sold secrets to get another spy killed, then yeah, kill the double crossing spy. He knows too much and he's a murderer.

But the Chantry Sister just had different religious beliefs; she believes sincerely that we're heretics. and it's never implied that she had any other agenda other than to gather info on Leliana and the Divine's little present. I see no attempt to murder me or Leliana in the situation; she was shocked I was there at all. Regardless, if she was going to try, she never got the chance; there was two of us anyway, she wouldn't take us both down And she certainly wasn't a double crossing spy, she was just a bad one.

Zevran literally tried to murder me and I recruited him anyway. Why would I want the Chantry sister to die for doing a bit of spying about an ambiguous message in a box?

As a side note, I played a pacifist elf that discouraged the spy murder and got a softened Leliana in that play through. But I have yet to play a character that thought it was a bad idea to kill the double crossing spy on anything but philosophical grounds

 

The problem is the dialogue option. The Inquisitor doesn't actually say to forgive the spy - just to find a different way of getting right of them. Personally, I think clandestinely killing traitors is bad - you need to publicly kill your traitors to send a message. ;) 


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#127
Gold Dragon

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Did anyone notice that the name of the spy that lelianna wants to kill, and the spy that gets killed in Crestwood by Red Templars ins the same: Butler?

 

Did/does Lelianna kill Butler?



#128
Spirit Vanguard

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Did anyone notice that the name of the spy that lelianna wants to kill, and the spy that gets killed in Crestwood by Red Templars ins the same: Butler?

 

Did/does Lelianna kill Butler?

 

The dead Crestwood agent is named Butcher.  ^_^



#129
Nocte ad Mortem

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Sometimes I do wish they wouldn't tie doing companion quests to how high your approval is with them.   Iron Bull was one where I felt it was particularly difficult to justify it.   Either the Qun wish to work with the Inquisition or they don't.   Admittedly they might not want an alliance with an organisation led by someone with such totally different view on life to their own but considering the organisation itself was set up on the mandate of a religious leader, which is a total odds with their philosophy, that really negates that argument.   How Bull personally views the Inquisitor shouldn't come into it, yet my first run I discover the difference between not getting his personal quest and doing so, was a simple matter of killing a dragon.    That has nothing to do with my political views but purely what seems to turn Bull on personally.   A good spy wouldn't allow his personal feelings to get in the way of accurate reporting to his superiors.  

 

So my first ever run, because I left Bull on the bench much of the time and he didn't approve of many of my early decisions, every time I clicked on him in Skyhold, I merely got "Hi boss," and nothing more.    I actually engaged in more conversation with Krem than Bull and it was Krem who suggested the uses to which the Chargers could be put.   After finishing the game I read about how there was some quest involving a decision over the Chargers and realised I had missed out on something really important.   I back tracked to an earlier point, took Bull out to kill the dragon and hey presto suddenly I'm drinking with the Chargers and being asked to work with the Qun.   All my decisions up to that point had been exactly the same so it was purely the dragon hunt that made the difference.

 

It doesn't have to be just dragons. Iron Bull "slightly approves" every time you kill any Venatori in the maps. He and Varric are among the easiest to get approval with by just taking to them to maps where certain enermies are, if you know about it/care enough. Varric does the same when you kill any red Templars. I'm pretty sure Blackwall also does this with darkspawn, but I'm not totally sure now.



#130
Spirit Vanguard

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It doesn't have to be just dragons. Iron Bull "slightly approves" every time you kill any Venatori in the maps. He and Varric are among the easiest to get approval with by just taking to them to maps where certain enermies are, if you know about it/care enough. Varric does the same when you kill any red Templars. I'm pretty sure Blackwall also does this with darkspawn, but I'm not totally sure now.

 

It does. Killing darkspawn with Blackwall in your party earns slight approval from him.  :police:


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#131
Ieldra

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How many times did you picked answers just to get the approval of a companions?

In DAI, never. I found it easy to stay in-character.
In DA2, sometimes since so much additonal content depended on it.
In DAO, rarely since you could use gifts to balance things out.
 

How many times you let Zevran join your team just to get a new companion?

My characters don't usually kill a captive, even if he tried to kill me. Thus, having him under my eye was the preferred option.
 

How many times did you let Morrigan drank from the well just because you liked her character?

Most of my characters let her drink from the well because they'd never, ever let themselves be bound to a god (nor to anyone else). Besides, why would "I like her" not be a valid reason to let her drink from the well?
 

How many times did you pretended to be interested in Solas hobbies just to get his approval?

I didn't need to pretend.

#132
Ieldra

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Hypocrisy is saying one thing and doing another.  Which granted you just demonstrated you know in this post, but in the OP most of the situations you brought up aren't...by themselves...hypocrisy. 

Not quite. Hypocrisy is applying different standards to others than you do to yourself. If you're telling people what they want to hear in full awareness of the fact that you're lying, that's simply dishonesty.



#133
German Soldier

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Sebs was hyprocrital...

It's not hypocrisy rather it was Sebastian that after several years was soured by hatred and anger and changed completely.

 

If you define as hypocrisy people who change due to a perceived(real or not real) injury (emotional or physical) against them  after that atrocity are commited against them then it means you don't even know the meaning of the word.



#134
Catilina

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It's not hypocrisy rather it was Sebastian that after several years was soured by hatred and anger and changed completely.

 

If you define as hypocrisy people who change due to a perceived(real or not real) injury (emotional or physical) against them  after that atrocity are commited against them then it means you don't even know the meaning of the word.

He don't changed totally. He was vengeful. (Maybe he changed totally, if he before was not vengeful...)



#135
German Soldier

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I felt my Hawke had become a huge hypocrite after returning and going on constantly about how bad blood magic and the Wardens were, considering the two people he's probably closest to in the world (Carver and Anders) were Wardens and he consistently supported Merrill's use of blood magic. It was really strange for me and didn't seem to fit the character I played at all.

Anders is not a Grey warden



#136
Catilina

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Anders is not a Grey warden

He is.



#137
Spirit Vanguard

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Anders is not a Grey warden

He is.

No longer a "practicing" Warden, but still technically a Warden because of the taint/Joining.
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#138
German Soldier

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He is.

Being a GW isn't just a matter of undergo the joining and being tainted if you don't belong to the hierarchy of the order or you're not answering or taking orders form them you are not one of them Is the same thing of non-GW Alistair.


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#139
Nixou

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Without lie

How many times did you picked answers just to get the approval of a companions?

How many times you let Zevran join your team just to get a new companion?

How many times did you let Morrigan drank from the well just because you liked her character?*

How many times did you pretended to be interested in Solas hobbies just to get his approval?

 

  • Very often in my final completionist Origins and Awakening playthroughs (But then again, I made my Warden a self-serving me-firster, so it worked well narratively speaking)
  • I always let everyone join the team
  • Let her drink because I didn't picture my muggle Inquisitor diving headfirst in the weird magic stuff carrying the will of dozens of generations of mage-priests.
  • I never roll incurious character. Whether they're righteous or rotten, traditionalist or revolutionaries, my MCs will always take the time and effort to get to know their companions.


#140
Dean_the_Young

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What's wrong with telling people what they like to hear?

 

Whatever is wrong with insincerity, I suppose.


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#141
Nocte ad Mortem

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Being a GW isn't just a matter of undergo the joining and being tainted if you don't belong to the hierarchy of the order or you're not answering or taking orders form them you are not one of them Is the same thing of non-GW Alistair.

My opinion, you can't stop being a Grey Warden. You can't escape the effect and it's something that will ultimately end your life, unless the HoF is successful, I guess. This is just a perspective issue, though. I see where you're coming from on physically being a Warden vs being a part of their organized structure. 


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#142
Aren

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"Grey warden" is a title first and foremost and not a condition of being.
The order of the Grey wardens does have members within their ranks who did not underwent the joining but are  still addressed as Grey wardens and the state of being that is peculiar of those who undergo the joining is not what it makes them GW since that is just the taint that is within their bodies or now i can claim that all disciples of the darkpsawns are Grey wardens because they share the same conditions of GW...
 
 
You are a member of the Grey wardens if you  belong to this chains of commands.
 
First Warden
Chamberlain warden
Warden Commander
Senior Warden
Warden
Warden recruit--->non tainted
Affiliates of the order--->non tainted (Like Woolsey and Varel of DAA)
 
 
Anders do not belong to any of these in DAII just as Alistair as Drunk or King.

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#143
Patricia08

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Without lie

How many times did you picked answers just to get the approval of a companions?

How many times you let Zevran join your team just to get a new companion?

How many times did you let Morrigan drank from the well just because you liked her character?*

How many times did you pretended to be interested in Solas hobbies just to get his approval?

 

Quite some times.

Who is Zevran ?

Never i did not like her at all .... right from the start.

Also never because i never really was interested in Solas. 


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#144
Zero

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Without lie

How many times did you picked answers just to get the approval of a companions?

 

After the first playthrough? A few times, just to see what happens.

 

 

How many times you let Zevran join your team just to get a new companion?

 

The times I've let Zevran join my team is because I'm roleplaying a HoF that actually want him as a companion. If I don't want him as a companion, I kill him in battle instead of interrogating it.

 

 

How many times did you let Morrigan drank from the well just because you liked her character?

 

I only drank from the Well if I'm playing an elf, because obvious reasons. The rest of my Inquisitors don't care a nug leg about that thing, and let her have it.

 

 

 

How many times did you pretended to be interested in Solas hobbies just to get his approval?

 

In fact, I like talking with him as a player. Even if I cannot stand his point of view.



#145
Aliceeverafter

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All the time, because rarely do the choices reflect anything i might actually say.

 

And you can't help being a hypocrite. For e.g. Cullen and lyrium (Oh hey, go you for giving it up, and sorry oops you can taste it on my breath cos I'm a mage and you're my LI but i'm totally supportive and here to help in anyway except removing all sign and sight of lyrium to keep you from temptation and i know you're desperate to leave your templar way of life behind but i told Solas I was cool with blood magic cos it's just how you use it right? and so on and so forth)

 

But ... as it's a game and all, i butter up everyone, and recruit everyone because you get more gameplay :P

 

 



#146
d1ta

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Depends on which character i play ;)

But yes, my canon lavellan tends to play 'politician' (without her realizing it) while favouring military might and she picks up some 'survival tips' from Viviene :D

So yes, some of her dialogue options may not reflect her beliefs trully (especially when speaking to Viv), that speech when she was made inquisitor or maybe that one time she busted the Wall out of prison because he's her tank?
But the worst offender for her was letting Morrigan drink from the well because she chickened out :lol: (and using lame excuses later to justify to the clan later. Mythal wills it! :D )

#147
GoldenGail3

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It's not hypocrisy rather it was Sebastian that after several years was soured by hatred and anger and changed completely.

 

If you define as hypocrisy people who change due to a perceived(real or not real) injury (emotional or physical) against them  after that atrocity are commited against them then it means you don't even know the meaning of the word.

No, it was. Can i explain why? Anders hurt people with force, while Sebs used force to kill people due to Anders killing someone (although I don't think what i did was hyprocrital either; Hawke may have killed people, but they never got the option to tell Anders "DON'T F***ING BLOW UP THE CHANTRY AND DON'T DO SOMETHING THAT A TERRORIST WOULD DO!" beforehand. And plus Hawke never did anything terrosit like while killing him, so nope, doesn't count as hyprocrism). While Sebs actual was a huge hyprocrite though. 



#148
Gervaise

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Once a Grey Warden, always a Grey Warden.   It is a military order.   Hell, Duncan killed Jordy for refusing to take the Joining because the moment you agree to join, you are part of the order.   Essentially Jordy drew a weapon on his commanding officer.   Otherwise Duncan was guilty of murder because Jordy was only defending himself from being forced to do something potentially lethal.

 

However, this attitude then presented a problem with regard to various people; namely Fiona, Alistair and Anders.  

 

Fiona apparently left the Grey Wardens because 1) the other Wardens were being nasty to her for having been cured 2) because she wanted to go back and join the Circles and cause trouble.    Both these reasons sound ridiculous because you'd think it would be in the Warden's interests to study Fiona because of the possibility of finding ways to overcome the Taint and actually cure the Blight and the Wardens are allowed to recruit from the Circles specifically on the understanding they will keep the mages under control.    I've always felt it looked as though the Grey Warden leadership had actively wanted chaos in the Circles and wondered even before DAI if Corypheus has in some way infiltrated their ranks.   However, it would seem that Fiona leaving their ranks pre-dated his release.   Presumably they approached the Circle hierarchy and asked them to take her back and Fiona was willing to agree to this because of the reasons given above.

 

Alistair, at least as King, you can understand because the Grey Wardens would see it in their interests to play along with the whole thing.   In DAA they end up working with the monarchy and being given temporal power by them (a fact totally ignored in DAI).   This can be either monarch but Alistair was a relative of a powerful noble in Eamon, so I imagine that going easy on Alistair even if not king was working in their interests.   Besides by DA2 he is a hopeless drunk so the Wardens probably accepted that he was no longer fit for duty anyway.

 

Anders never made sense to me.   Initially he managed to escape their notice but if you contact the  Wardens in the Deep Roads, they seem really chilled to find him alive and no suggestion that he is actually a deserter.   So again, were the leadership actually in favour of what he was doing in Kirkwall?    If you don't meet them then, you can do so when searching for Nathaniel.  Again, whilst Nate is initially surprised to see him because he thought he was dead, you'd think he would then report back to HQ.   May be Nate was putting friendship first and kept quiet about finding Anders.    Still, as Anders admits himself, he might have withdrawn himself for contact with his superiors and not "be attending the parties" but he is still a Grey Warden by virtue of his taint if nothing else.    May be the leadership were turning a blind eye because there wasn't a Blight on at the time and initially Anders wasn't doing anything to cause trouble with the secular powers.    However, when Anders, the Grey Warden deserter, blew up the Chantry then they ought to have taken notice and hunted him down because it reflected very badly on their order that they had not kept tabs on him in the first place, particularly considering he was a mage, and would compound the matter if they then didn't do something about him.    If fact I can see how Anders blowing up the Chantry would negate all the good work that the Warden had been doing in Amarathine to show that Grey Wardens could be trusted with secular affairs.  If Teagan had pointed to that as an example that Grey Wardens and other quazi-military organisations like them can't be trusted instead of harping back to Sophie Drydan, I would have understood it.

 

It is things like this that irritate me about the writers.   They establish certain organisations, give them a plausible set of rules they operate by, and then totally ignore this when it suits their plot development.



#149
Reznore57

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I think in his short story Anders was attacked by fellow wardens?

I can't really remember , just the fact he had to kill some wardens.I imagine if they are not after him , the wardens might have decided Anders wasn't the guilty party and to let him flee.



#150
GoldenGail3

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I think in his short story Anders was attacked by fellow wardens?

I can't really remember , just the fact he had to kill some wardens.I imagine if they are not after him , the wardens might have decided Anders wasn't the guilty party and to let him flee.

He killed them and ate them....  :wacko: