109 réponses à ce sujet

[Vortex13]

As defined by Webster's Dictionary:

 

 

 

trans·hu·man·ism

tranzˈhyo͞omənizm/

noun

 

The belief or theory that the human race can evolve beyond its current physical and mental limitations, especially by means of science and technology.

 

 

 

 

 

Now I know that BioWare attempted (very poorly IMO) to approach this topic at the end of ME 3 and the Synthesis ending, but that wasn't so much transhumanism as it was a magical energy beam that made everyone glow green and live in peace and happiness.  For all the fluff surrounding the Green Ending in ME 3, we were all still human, (krogan, turian, etc.) at the end. Sure, the ending talked about having new knowledge and potentially living forever, but we were still recognizable, we still had the same perspective on things. Etc. 

 

Transhumanism is about a conscious, fundamental change to what we classify as human, and the exploration of that choice as well as the pros and cons associated with it.  Would we operate better as a species if we adopted asexual reproduction? Would genetically splicing claws and wings into our anatomy benefit us more? Would we still be us, if we all uploaded our minds into robotic bodies? Etc.

 

These are the things that I would like to see touched on, and in an unbiased light. 

Many times the questions raised by this subject are painted in ways as to being the 'good' choice to peruse, the inevitable destination of our species. Other times, such a state is seen as a malicious evil, one that must be resisted at all costs. But why not look at the topic in an objective fashion? Why does the notion of transhumanism have to be an all or nothing condition? Why do people for and against the concept of transhumanism have to be diametrically opposed all the time? 

 

If the Pathfinder could augment themselves with enhanced cybernetics, or splice their DNA with various traits of other alien species to better preform their tasks, and doesn't feel like they would be compromising who they are, then why shouldn't they?

 

 

 

[Bacus]

Well, there hasn't really been a real implementation of transhumanism (as you already stated) I don' believe we will see any.

But I would love to see brain implants and other upgrades.

 

More thinking: I believe the closest thing to transhumanism was the DLC from Me2 where you had the guy plugged into the machine.

[CronoDragoon]

Not really. That sort of topic is something the game's story should really dedicate itself to properly, like in Deus Ex. Andromeda has already established its themes of colonization and exploration, so throwing in transhumanism would simply unfocus that.

[Scarlett]

Honestly, no. I prefer they spend time and ressources on creating new aliens, new civilisations, new planets... than human upgrades and how we can be more powerful, and all with science.... not my cup of tea, really, also I think it's a bit out of subject for the thematic MEA want to have (space exploration).

 

 

Well, there hasn't really been a real implementation of transhumanism (as you already stated) I don' believe we will see any.

But I would love to see brain implants and other upgrades.

 

More thinking: I believe the closest thing to transhumanism was the DLC from Me2 where you had the guy plugged into the machine.

 

Yes, I agree and it was horrible  

[Vortex13]

Well, there hasn't really been a real implementation of transhumanism (as you already stated) I don' believe we will see any.

But I would love to see brain implants and other upgrades.

 

More thinking: I believe the closest thing to transhumanism was the DLC from Me2 where you had the guy plugged into the machine.

 

 

Yeah, from a gameplay mechanics standpoint I would love to see the option to add in new upgrades to my character, be they cybernetic or genetic, not unlike the MEC suits or Gene mod soldier classes from XCOM, or the conversion process of the Advena Domie faction from the upcoming game Phoenix Point.

 

To your last point, that is the kind of bias I would like to avoid. That whole DLC was structured around how evil such an undertaking was, and was specifically crafted for the player to feel opposed to the experiments, even going so far as to blow up in the players' faces in ME 3 in the form of lowered War Assets, should they chose to let the research continue. 

 

An interesting scenario in ME:A would be one were a person or group is willingly changing themselves to better adapt to the new galaxy, and then letting the player decide how they should feel about it.

[AngryFrozenWater]

Just select synthesis in ME3 and you are half way there.

[Unata]

Sounds to much like Deus Ex, afraid if they do go that way folks will say they stole the idea from the Eidos people.

 

They have shown cybernetics for sure since Shep was rebuilt with it so not to sure what else they can do without looking like they went to other games for plots.

[capn233]

They have shown cybernetics for sure since Shep was rebuilt with it so not to sure what else they can do without looking like they went to other games for plots.

 

EDI and Shep have a very brief conversation about implants and transhumans.

[Who Knows]

I don't really trust them much with exploring the concept further.

[Hadeedak]

I've run into too many cyberpunk short stories lately, so I'm feeling curmudgeonly and will shake my fist at the sky and go "No!"

 

Seriously, I think the biggest problem is rendering it in an interesting way in a visual medium. Hanging out with Legion in the geth servers was all right, and getting hacked was cool, but neither of them were exactly fascinating.

 

I really wanted more lines about Shep being a crazy cyborg zombie (especially if you started upgrading in ME2, goodness), but since that ship has sailed and been given a Viking funeral, I'll just say if it is a part of the plot, I want a chance to have Ryder express some reaction to her cybernetic doodads.

[Gago]

Honestly, not really. It would be allright to touch upon it but don't want to involve it too much. Even though Synthesis is my fav ending I am kinda "burn out" on that. 

[In Exile]

I think ME2 and ME3 proved Bioware doesn't get the actual conceptual underpinnings of such issues. And I don't just mean the arble-garble synthesis beam. The way they think of the Geth seems to be a total mess. They can't even sort out how or when or even if the Geth are self-aware. And the most basic transhumanism question is just about AI. Asking Bioware to wade into more complicated issues like the nature of the human form is just asking for a disaster.

[Beerfish]

I read this thread as 'Trash humanism' the 1st two times I looked at it.

[PlatonicWaffles]

Hmmnnn... thing is, I wouldn't mind, since it's one of my favourite sci-fi topics, but I'm not sure how well it would fit considering the main theme of the game is exploration into the unknown. You don't want to throw in too many extraneous plot elements, otherwise the game will feel messy.

[Norhik Krios]

Transhumanism sounds awesome and just... logical. Evolution has been a part of humanity since we can think. It's happening from generation to generation. To transcend the state we call "human", that would require something more drastic, maybe mutation. But even that could be possible. Just think of this scenario.

The ark that is headed to Andromeda. In there, in a cryochamber, is... a child, a teenager, a woman that is pregnant or even just a normal dude/dudette with Biotic Implants. Now, the ark is shielded from the radiation from stars in the universe, but maybe not from the cosmic background radiation that is everywhere. Or the ark is shielded against even that, but one of the cryochambers has a leak, or is damaged. If the background radiation now comes into contact with a person, that sleeps for 600+ years, no one knows what would be possible. The subject could die after a couple of years. It could happen nothing. Or, the body reacts, it evolves, the body fuses with the biotic amps and the human transcends into something greater.

[Vortex13]

I read this thread as 'Trash humanism' the 1st two times I looked at it.

 

 

Well I won't lie, a substantial decrease of the human focus in these games would be just fine with me.

[SKAR]

As defined by Webster's Dictionary:



trans·hu·man·ism

tranzˈhyo͞omənizm/

noun

The belief or theory that the human race can evolve beyond its current physical and mental limitations, especially by means of science and technology.





Now I know that BioWare attempted (very poorly IMO) to approach this topic at the end of ME 3 and the Synthesis ending, but that wasn't so much transhumanism as it was a magical energy beam that made everyone glow green and live in peace and happiness. For all the fluff surrounding the Green Ending in ME 3, we were all still human, (krogan, turian, etc.) at the end. Sure, the ending talked about having new knowledge and potentially living forever, but we were still recognizable, we still had the same perspective on things. Etc.

Transhumanism is about a conscious, fundamental change to what we classify as human, and the exploration of that choice as well as the pros and cons associated with it. Would we operate better as a species if we adopted asexual reproduction? Would genetically splicing claws and wings into our anatomy benefit us more? Would we still be us, if we all uploaded our minds into robotic bodies? Etc.

These are the things that I would like to see touched on, and in an unbiased light.
Many times the questions raised by this subject are painted in ways as to being the 'good' choice to peruse, the inevitable destination of our species. Other times, such a state is seen as a malicious evil, one that must be resisted at all costs. But why not look at the topic in an objective fashion? Why does the notion of transhumanism have to be an all or nothing condition? Why do people for and against the concept of transhumanism have to be diametrically opposed all the time?

If the Pathfinder could augment themselves with enhanced cybernetics, or splice their DNA with various traits of other alien species to better preform their tasks, and doesn't feel like they would be compromising who they are, then why shouldn't they?

So...... synthesis? Didn't really need all that

[Vortex13]

I think ME2 and ME3 proved Bioware doesn't get the actual conceptual underpinnings of such issues. And I don't just mean the arble-garble synthesis beam. The way they think of the Geth seems to be a total mess. They can't even sort out how or when or even if the Geth are self-aware. And the most basic transhumanism question is just about AI. Asking Bioware to wade into more complicated issues like the nature of the human form is just asking for a disaster.

 

 

BioWare used to understand the basic foundations of the idea, or rather Chris L'Etoile understood what transhumanism was, but yeah there has been a noticeable decline in science fiction vs. science fantasy since his departure. 

 

I am hoping that a return to the core concepts of ME 1 will also herald a more consistent approach to such topics in the setting.

[In Exile]

Well I won't lie, a substantial decrease of the human focus in these games would be just fine with me.

I eagerly await the day we play a hive mind alien that cannot perceive UV radiation. Sure, it'll be novel when the screen is entirely black to simulate our perception and the sounds are all beyond a range perceptible to humans, but it will be worth it.

I get wanting more non-human aliens - I do too - but you can't avoid a human focus. The more alien you make your aliens the more human focused the game becomes, as it becomes more and more about our reaction to uknown and unknowable alien life.

[In Exile]

BioWare used to understand the basic foundations of the idea, or rather Chris L'Etoile understood what transhumanism was, but yeah there has been a noticeable decline in science fiction vs. science fantasy since his departure.

I am hoping that a return to the core concepts of ME 1 will also herald a more consistent approach to such topics in the setting.

I think L'Etoile is overrated in that regard but he's by far the best Bioware had and even made the most out of the other space magic concepts in ME. His ME2 Geth don't make sense. The concept was cool, but he struggled a lot in execution and seemed to want to endow computer programs with sentience (the geth notion of consensus is gibberish without the capacity for sapient thought).

[Tantum Dic Verbo]

I wouldn't want it, no.

[Vortex13]

I eagerly await the day we play a hive mind alien that cannot perceive UV radiation. Sure, it'll be novel when the screen is entirely black to simulate our perception and the sounds are all beyond a range perceptible to humans, but it will be worth it.

I get wanting more non-human aliens - I do too - but you can't avoid a human focus. The more alien you make your aliens the more human focused the game becomes, as it becomes more and more about our reaction to uknown and unknowable alien life.

 

 

I've never said that I wanted the complete removal of the human element; heck I support a human only protagonist. I just would like to see a game were humanity isn't the god race of the universe, and were the exploration of hive mind aliens that cannot perceive UV radiation have a bigger focus instead of being ignored completely in favor of which dude/babe the player wants to bang.

[Seraphim24]

Not really.

[Vortex13]

I think L'Etoile is overrated in that regard but he's by far the best Bioware had and even made the most out of the other space magic concepts in ME. His ME2 Geth don't make sense. The concept was cool, but he struggled a lot in execution and seemed to want to endow computer programs with sentience (the geth notion of consensus is gibberish without the capacity for sapient thought).

 

 

I'm sure there are better writers out there, but like you said Chris was at least able to lend a form of credence and consistency to the universe. I do wonder though if Legion and the Geth would have turned out differently if L'Etoile wasn't being badgered by Walters into humanizing everything about them.

[AngryFrozenWater]

EDI and Shep have a very brief conversation about implants and transhumans.

Jup. This is that convo:

 

EDI: Mordin sent me a nicely crafted message. It seems he recalls our conversations about the salarian equivalent of transhumans.

Shepard: If I could, I'd stop you right th...

EDI: Transhumans have some of their brain's abilities, such as memory, supplemented or entirely replaced by cybernetics.

EDI: Legal definitions vary from planet to planet. The salarians embrace the concept. Humans have diverse and contentious opinions.

Shepard: Do my implants make me a transhuman?

EDI: That would be telling.

Shepard: What?

EDI: I'm sorry. That was a joke.

EDI: You are fully human. Cerberus extensively reconstructed you, but your brain functions are organic.

Shepard: Don't ever do that again.