109 réponses à ce sujet

[Statare]

I feel like, most likely, Andromeda will be very minimal on any transhumanist ideas except for the very basic issues inherent in a species leaving their home planet/galaxy/home. The emphasis of the game seems to be (especially with the connotations of the word "Ark") about the preservation of biological life in the face of extinction via a "transhuman" (they aren't human, but transalien I guess) "race" of space squid ships. So it seems inherently opposed to transhuman/transalien concepts in a pretty black/white dichotomy against what you would probably like to see. Using the word Ark for it's symbolic connotation, about preserving the "chosen" life in the face of disaster because of inherent divine mandated value, seems essentially not transhuman, as an Ark does not imply adaptation to new requirements of existing or transcending biological facts, but manipulating technology/acts of god to preserve the ontological existence of humanity/whatever.

 

Also, the Wild West issue probably indicates they will not explore transhuman issues, as any exploration of Wild West themes usually evokes ideas of manifest destiny which is related to the Judeo-Christian notion of man's dominion over the natural world (genesis concepts) because of the divine essence of man, and such a view point that tends to be antithetical to a simplistic/standard transhuman story/theme. The most recent Battlestar Galactica did try to complicate that dichotomy between the "divine" and technology, but that required really tight story telling and is one of the most inherent/long established themes of that show. Now, that show indicates transhuman ideas can be explored in the "finding a new home" story line, but that universe had transhumanism as a fundamental aspect of the show, and unless the Reapers are coming with us, ME:A seems to be trying to run away from ME's transhuman elements in general. And so I feel this game will be minimal in any transhuman ideas.

 

There are also those who speculate that if it is true we struggle against a human anti-hero, and with the colonial overtones of the setting, that they might be drawing from Heart of Darkness/Apocalypse Now, which are both works that are very much about the corrupting effects of technology/progress on the soul of man.

 

Edit: and also with the ship being called the Tempest, which could be referencing a play by Shakespeare, in which Prospero, a magician, struggles with issues of the soul, and in the end must accept his true, human nature, abandon his reality manipulating magic, so as to return the world to it's "correct" order.

 

With out knowing the plot of a game, these possible themes/references might indicate you might not be getting a complicated interpretation of transhumanist themes, but since transhumanism is kind of a fundamental theme in a lot of media, even dating back to "primitive" works of man, it'll probably be present.

[General TSAR]

Nope, leave that to Eidos Montreal.

[frylock23]

I agree with Javik: Throw it out the airlock!

[wright1978]

Certainly shouldn't be a major theme of this game, though could perhaps feature in side story content.

[The Hierophant]

I already saw how transhumanism was handled by ME's writers in Project Overlord. The subject matter will be presented in dumbed down black, and white scenarios for the sake of drama.  Just look at how over the top, and nonsensical David Archer's treatment was.

 

Spoiler

[Blueblood]

Maybe Ryder could have surgery; have antennae attached to their head or something. That would count. And also, it would be cool. And our antennae could tingle when enemies are near. Oh I want it!

OR

Stingers.

I'll let Bioware mull over my suggestions.

[Heimdall]

Much as I love Bioware's games, their grasp of complicated concepts and issues (And occasionally basic biology) has always lacked. Nowhere is this more apparent than the Mass Effect trilogy. I would not trust them to try and tackle transhumanism.

[themikefest]

Just select synthesis in ME3 and you are half way there.

Shepard was half way there until she decided to make a right turn up the ramp followed by a left turn to shoot the tube. excellent

[DuskWanderer]

I think it would complicate the narrative. Maybe some other game should do that. 

[fizzypop]

Maybe, but I have huge beef with the term "evolve". If we use science and technology to change our DNA/genetic material we aren't evolving. We are doing something, but not evolving. Evolving aka evolution requires environment to act upon a population. It also requires that population to have genetic variation already present within the species to act upon. I know a minor point, but it does bother me because it gives people the wrong idea about evolution. Evolution doesn't create new genetic traits, it only acts upon what's already there. Transhumanism would be creating anew. Vastly different ideas. Artificial selection perhaps.

[AngryFrozenWater]

Shepard was half way there until she decided to make a right turn up the ramp followed by a left turn to shoot the tube. excellent

I do agree with your preference. I've written a lot about that in the past. Why not explain that preference to the OP, instead? Seems more effective.

[SKAR]

Shepard was half way there until she decided to make a right turn up the ramp followed by a left turn to shoot the tube. excellent

My Shepard convinced the catalyst to send the reapers back into darkspace forever and the galaxy went back to the way things were. I had two kids with Ashley and everyone lived happily ever after. we used reaper tech to improve our technology and everything is great. its a super secret ending. You have to have a million EMS.

[themikefest]

My Shepard convinced the catalyst to send the reapers back into darkspace forever and the galaxy went back to the way things were.

My Shepard flipped the bird at the thing and shot the tube
 

I had two kids with Ashley and everyone lived happily ever after. we used reaper tech to improve our technology and everything is great. its a super secret ending.

My Shepard took the parts from the destroyed  reapers and built herself and Samantha two nice looking choppers to ride on. I didn't need a super-secret ending for that. I just needed to headcanon that
 

You have to have a million EMS.

For my ending, the player just uses headcanon

[SKAR]

My Shepard flipped the bird at the thing and shot the tube

My Shepard took the parts from the destroyed reapers and built herself and Samantha two nice looking choppers to ride on. I didn't need a super-secret ending for that. I just needed to headcanon that

For my ending, the player just uses headcanon

That's your ending. I like mine better. It's a happy ending but bioware doesn't believe in those anymore. I guess it's too "cliché".

[dreamgazer]

Nah, let's just get everyone to Andromeda first before ruminating on how they've changed.

[SwobyJ]

Absolutely.

 

But in terms of predictions, my biggest one (only lightly believed in, but I'm just saying) is:

-Most of the core game won't be 'about' it; they've been pretty clear about at least the premise and the leaked info itself doesn't seem to focus on it (even if what's in vaults may end up being transhumanist, we dunno and it won't matter til later)

-It may grow or even sneak up as the game continues, not be so blatant as whatever happened to ME trilogy/3, and be a different take on it, perhaps more nuanced (really)

 

 

I think its strange to believe that transhumanist elements will necessarily never be touched upon in Mass Effect: Andromeda. While there's arguments against it happening, sure... we do have a series that has had (specific wording) transhuman elements touched on since the start of the first game. Its all a little transhuman. The jarring stuff was when plot seemed to focus on it, seemingly acting like it was always focusing on it - particularly at the ending of ME3. When we have Shepard and co. and the galaxy mostly not caring too much about this stuff, then we get Big Questions and Decisions almost suddenly, it doesn't feel tactfully designed. So I get that earlier comment about it maybe being more fitting for, say, Deus Ex.

 

But I still think it can be done, may be done, and perhaps should be done. Personally I consider it rather core to Mass Effect (though not necessarily), whether it was done well to date, or not.

 

Sure I don't want to focus on rebelling robo zombies (literally or figuratively though rogue AI stories, etc) overwhelming populations in various ways. But that should be a given. Transhumanism can be MUCH more than that, and each game, at least so far, has only increased the varied ways it is expressed. I can just hope that whatever MEA does, it doesn't fall so easy into blatant tropes (ME1), easy tropes (ME2), or convenient tropes (ME3), but at least really challenges the designers to do something more of their own, not just emulating things done arguably better in the past.

 

I sympathize with those thinking Bioware can't do it well so they shouldn't do it. I'm just not sure I agree yet. MEA is in many ways my last chance for Bioware to prove itself with many concepts; not that I hated all of what I saw earlier, nor that I wouldn't at least buy a ME5 on discount haha.

[SwobyJ]

Also there are different ways to consider transhuman.

 

-There's the philosophical approach where even using a stick to poke something is an expression of transhumanism; improving our selves outside of our bodies.

-There's the normal modern approach where it is to change or replace 'parts' of our selves in the transformation into something beyond, better, different than human.

-It seems that Mass Effect Galaxy's more direct interpretation is that it is any technology that replaces the workings of the brain, not necessarily the (rest of the) body. So Kai Leng having new legs isn't him 'being a transhuman', but if he has brain implants that especially replace parts of his brain (NOTE: Shepard does not seem to have replacements, only assistants to rebuilt his organic tissue), then he is 'a transhuman'.

 

 

In the first sense, Mass Effect as with most sci fi, is at least partially focused on that. Duh.

In the second sense... we'll see. Sometimes this can mean extension subjects like AI, considering the idea that interfacing with AI is a transhuman movement of human society.

In the third... we'll see. In some ways it'd be a proper momentum from the last game, but I acknowledge that at least some fans don't want to bother with this stuff at all.

 

 

Personally I wouldn't be hating the prospect of, say, our protagonist secretly having a modified brain with a second synthetic personality within it. More of a ghost story (sensing the dead) than a revenant (being the undead) one, I suppose.

[straykat]

No.. this isn't cyberpunk. Besides that, almost every attempt at this discussion is someone speaking out of their ass. And then we have to deal with their religious minions later, who treat it as gospel. I'd rather avoid the annoyances. Just make a bunch of explosions and guns and be done with it.

[SwobyJ]

No.. this isn't cyberpunk. Besides that, almost every attempt at this discussion is someone speaking out of their ass. And then we have to deal with their religious minions later, who treat it as gospel. I'd rather avoid the annoyances. Just make a bunch of explosions and guns and be done with it.

 

Wait.. do you mean that, in general?

 

Goodbye story. Rule of Cool has prevailed.

[straykat]

Wait.. do you mean that, in general?

 

Goodbye story. Rule of Cool has prevailed.

 

Yup, that was pretty much ME2. And it was the best of the bunch. I was happy at least.

 

At best, the transhumanist elements mixed with horror, so it was kind of fun to see (Overlord, Collectors, etc).

[Revan Reborn]

No. Transhumanism is a theme that's more appropriate in Cyberpunk than it is in a Space Opera like Mass Effect. I would love to see CDPR tackle that issue in Cyberpunk 2077. Lets allow Mass Effect to remain Mass Effect by focusing on exploration and discovering the unknown.

[SwobyJ]

Yup, that was pretty much ME2. And it was the best of the bunch. I was happy at least.

 

At best, the transhumanist elements mixed with horror, so it was kind of fun to see (Overlord, Collectors, etc).

 

That was not pretty much ME2. It is the one with the most emphasis on explosions and guns (well ME1 may have been, but only because it had less 'stuff' overall imo, so any explosion meant more ha), but there was plenty else.

[straykat]

No. Transhumanism is a theme that's more appropriate in Cyberpunk than it is in a Space Opera like Mass Effect. I would love to see CDPR tackle that issue in Cyberpunk 2077. Lets allow Mass Effect to remain Mass Effect by focusing on exploration and discovering the unknown.

 

Even then, Cyberpunk was one of the more action-y of cyberpunk settings. Last I checked. I wouldn't be surprised if it didn't get too in-depth either.

[straykat]

That was not pretty much ME2. It is the one with the most emphasis on explosions and guns (well ME1 may have been, but only because it had less 'stuff' overall imo, so any explosion meant more ha), but there was plenty else.

 

It was pretty much it, as far as cyberpunk goes.

 

I didn't say that was all ME2 was though.

[SwobyJ]

No. Transhumanism is a theme that's more appropriate in Cyberpunk than it is in a Space Opera like Mass Effect. I would love to see CDPR tackle that issue in Cyberpunk 2077. Lets allow Mass Effect to remain Mass Effect by focusing on exploration and discovering the unknown.

 

Forgive me, but that's... a bit strange. ME was at least sprinkled with transhumanism from the start. In fact, that's what all the sidequesting about biotics was. 

 

If you want that to stop, or even reduce from that level, then sure. But I just find it strange when you use the words "allow Mass Effect to remain Mass Effect" about it.