74 réponses à ce sujet

[DextroDNA]

You mean this?

 

 

I reduced the brightness so is less withey. It looks just like a human with a pseudo mask (like some characters like Samara wear in ME2). There's another dude behind and that's the Tempest.

It looks weird I believe because of the lighting and the awful video quality (this is a frame from the 1080 youtube oficial video).

And the dude behind looks like a Prothean.

[Beerfish]

And the dude behind looks like a Prothean.

There was another image in which it looked like a prothean was in the back ground, would not surprise me if one was included.

[SKAR]

There was another image in which it looked like a prothean was in the back ground, would not surprise me if one was included.

It should.

[Mcfly616]

And the dude behind looks like a Prothean.

 I was thinking the same. The silhouette certainly does resemble it imo. The shoulders (that could simply be the armor type). But the shape of the head and the legs is similar to their anatomy as well. Though it is really blurry. I'd prefer it if it weren't a Prothean. I'd rather Javik remain the true "last" Prothean. For now, I'll just chalk it up as a blurry silhouette.

[Mcfly616]

It should.

  It shouldn't be too surprising. Javik was a hit and Bioware has no qualms about retconning their own fiction.

[SKAR]

It shouldn't be too surprising. Javik was a hit and Bioware has no qualms about retconning their own fiction.

Why bring back protheans? We have a new galaxy with tons of new alien races and you want an old one? Protheans are better off in the MW.

[Mcfly616]

Why bring back protheans? We have a new galaxy with tons of new alien races and you want an old one? Protheans are better off on the MW.

 You haven't been paying attention, have you? I certainly do not want the Protheans to show up in Andromeda.

[SKAR]

You haven't been paying attention, have you? I certainly do not want the Protheans to show up in Andromeda.

Why wouldn't you be surprising then? You obviously think bioware will put em in. They arent that crazy.

[Mcfly616]

Why wouldn't you be surprising then? You obviously think bioware will put em in. 

 

 As I said:

 

  Javik was a hit and Bioware has no qualms about retconning their own fiction.

 

 

 

They arent that crazy.

 

[Beerfish]

  It shouldn't be too surprising. Javik was a hit and Bioware has no qualms about retconning their own fiction.

I really do not understand the rampant use of the word retcon on just about every single issue to do with a game.  There could be a myriad of valid ways BioWare could include a prothean in this game.  (I am no particularly enamored with them being in the game but that doesn't mean it is a retcon to include one them.)

[SKAR]

As I said:

Got you confused with beerfish. Still no protheans.

[Mcfly616]

I really do not understand the rampant use of the word retcon on just about every single issue to do with a game.  There could be a myriad of valid ways BioWare could include a prothean in this game.  (I am no particularly enamored with them being in the game but that doesn't mean it is a retcon to include one them.)

 I too find it an overused term. Most of the time incorrectly. Still, there's no denying Bioware does it on occasion.

 

Bottom line is, Javik was portrayed as the very last Prothean. Could Bioware have us arrive in Andromeda and simply tell us "hey, guess what? The Protheans aren't extinct, they ran away from the Reapers before we did. No biggie." Sure they could. Of course, that'd cheapen the significance of what Javik represented, as well as undermine what we accomplished by travelling across dark space to an entirely different galaxy.

 

 

Something about getting there just to find out "hey, Javik wasn't the last. Not even close. All that drama in ME3 was for nothing." And  "Silly primitive. You thought you were the first to flee to this whole new, fresh galaxy to escape the Reapers. Been there. Done that."

 

Seems like a cop-out. Would it be a retcon on the part of Javik no longer being the last Prothean? Debatable. But definitely a cop-out.

[Sartoz]

 Big Snip

That said, some of them may be quite hominid in appearance. But I would be hugely surprised if that was at all common, despite our success on Earth. It would be a mistake to think that because we kick so much ass, aliens must be like us, because if we nuke ourselves and our vertebrate kin into extinction, it may very well be the descendants of the Cephalopods that take our place. And what an interesting world that would be.

                                                                                    <<<<<<<<<<(0)>>>>>>>>>>

 

Hmm...

The Octo may very well be intelligent but unless they are a self-aware species  they are just animals.  I cannot forsee a future world where the Cephalapods create a marine empire with taxes.

 

My point in this reply is that  Bio has painted themselves into a corner, somewhat... because of the romance thing. Romancing an intelligent octopus that can't communicate in human terms and is ugly to boot, just won't do... game wise. Populating the game with non bipeds is silly, even though you may be quite right regarding the diversity in the universe. 

 

Besides, Bio appears to have this LBGT_XYZ agenda and ME:A is a human centric story. Expect humans, a few bipedal intelligent aliens (one which will be human like and a love interest) and many predator lifeforms.

[SKAR]

I too find it an overused term. Most of the time incorrectly. Still, there's no denying Bioware does it on occasion.

Bottom line is, Javik was portrayed as the very last Prothean. Could Bioware have us arrive in Andromeda and simply tell us "hey, guess what? The Protheans aren't extinct, they ran away from the Reapers before we did. No biggie." Sure they could. Of course, that'd cheapen the significance of what Javik represented, as well as undermine what we accomplished by travelling across dark space to an entirely different galaxy.


Something about getting there just to find out "hey, Javik wasn't the last. Not even close. All that drama in ME3 was for nothing." And "Silly primitive. You thought you were the first to flee to this whole new, fresh galaxy to escape the Reapers. Been there. Done that."

Seems like a cop-out. Would it be a retcon on the part of Javik no longer being the last Prothean? Debatable. But definitely a cop-out.

I don't believe they would go as far as to bring the protheans back. Their plan was to freeze themselves. Who knows if they even cared about exploration like we do. They were conquerors who built a massive empire and when the reapers came they had no early warning or delay. Honestly though, I don't think they went to Andromeda. Are we the first? Well...... we'll see.

[Kabooooom]

<<<<<<<<<<(0)>>>>>>>>>>

Hmm...
The Octo may very well be intelligent but unless they are a self-aware species they are just animals.

Long off-topic post in response to you in case you are interested in the subject, but: I disagree with this statement, but that's probably because I am used to using very specific terms to describe these things, since it's the field I work in. Humans are animals, an animal is just a multicellular heterotrophic eukaryotic organism.

I think what you probably meant was "do they possess self-awareness, because if they don't then they aren't sapient, only sentient animals". Sentience is synonymous with possessing consciousness - the subjective experience of qualia. We now universally agree that the vast majority of higher animals are conscious (sentient), although we don't yet know how widespread that is. The most successfully predictive theory of consciousness that we have does predict that it exists on a gradation from the simplest of animals on up. But regardless, sentience is a pre-requisite for sapience, and unfortunately us neuroscientist folk don't have a universally accepted definition of it. I think the best definition of sapience is also the most stringent - a sentient animal that also possesses reflexive self-awareness: thinking about oneself, thinking about thinking, etc. This necessarily requires a level of intellect above and beyond a very intelligent sentient animal.

And it gets worse in that even by that very specific definition, we don't have a good test to evaluate sapience. The most famous one is the "mirror test for self-awareness". An animal that passes this test, when accounting for all variables and being as stringent with the methodology is possible, is absolutely sapient. It is hard to argue otherwise when they exhibit behavior that passes that test. But this test actually underestimates self-awareness in animals. We know that humans, the Great Apes, various species of monkeys, elephants, Dolphins, and several species of bird pass this test and are unambiguously exhibit reflexive self-awareness. But the test actually requires that a species a) have reflexive self-awareness b ) rely on vision as a primary sensory modality and c) intellectually understand a mirror, which you would think would be a pre-requisite to (a) but actually isn't. So it's a shitty test of anthropomorphic origin. Certain intelligent animals, such as canines which is the species I work with most, *might* pass a test designed to investigate reflexive self-awareness if we used olfaction as the sensory modality instead of vision - we don't know.

So the long and short answer to addressing your question of "is the octopus a self-aware species" is....we don't yet know for sure. Judging by their cognitive capabilities easily overlapping the Great Apes, and judging by the incredible complexity of their unique brain, I would bet my career that they are, in fact, sapient, as other species with their level of apparent intellect most certainly are. But we don't know for sure.

I used them as an example to point out the fallacy of assuming an intelligent extraterrestrial species must resemble us, since right here on Earth some of the most intelligent animals on the planet don't resemble us at all. And this was a fact that was overlooked for a century, as in our arrogance we completely wrote them off because we assumed that they couldn't possibly be anywhere close to as intelligent as us. Oops.

That's what happens when scientists are anthropocentric bags of dicks.

[Sartoz]

 Big Snip

That's what happens when scientists are anthropocentric bags of dicks.

                                                                                   <<<<<<<<<<(0)>>>>>>>>>>

 

I still think true intelligence requires the ability to make tools and the ability to laugh. 

 

Now a q. What about the Dolphins? If anything, they  ought to be on top of the list.  The octo surprised me.

[Sartoz]

And the dude behind looks like a Prothean.

                                                                                    <<<<<<<<<<(0)>>>>>>>>>>

 

Don't forget it could just be concept art.

[Kabooooom]

<<<<<<<<<<(0)>>>>>>>>>>

I still think true intelligence requires the ability to make tools and the ability to laugh.

Now a q. What about the Dolphins? If anything, they ought to be on top of the list. The octo surprised me.

I mentioned dolphins a few times, both when I mentioned a list of the most intelligent animals on Earth and the list of animals that we believe possess reflexive self-awareness. If I didn't say Dolphins, I might have generalized and said "cetaceans", too lazy to go back and check lol.

And there are different kinds of intelligence. Tool use is not a useful definition for it, and laughing as a physiological and behavioral response is an evolved social cue that exists in only a handful of species. When we are studying animal intellect, we design experiments that look for de novo cognition - ie: the ability to solve a complex problem with zero prior training or introduction to the problem, necessitating cognition - thinking - in order to solve it. Such is the cornerstone of abstract thought and intelligence. A vast number of species pass tests like this.

For example, one thing I study is social intelligence and language comprehension. I primarily work with canines as a species. We now know that their ability to interpret human body language and social cues (remarkably) far surpasses that of our closest genetic relative - the Chimpanzee, and that they were selectively adapted for this since grey wolves lack this ability mostly. However, the great apes in general and especially the Chimpanzee surpass them in a number of cognitive skills for problem solving. This demonstrates that a species can be incredibly adept at one type of intelligence, but not so great at another. It's not as black or white of a thing as "is this animal smart or not".

But I agree, we can't really arrange the list yet of "which animal is the smartest" except in the sense of putting us at the top, obviously, but there are several lines of evidence that suggest that dolphins probably are smarter than Chimps. We need to refine some of our criteria for determining that though.

With regards to tool use, you may be interested to know that we have identified a number of species that either utilize pre-existing objects as tools or construct tools themselves for a given problem, and some species pass on the knowledge of how to make tools to their offspring, which is a primitive form of culture.

Clearly, for a species to reach our level of technological advancement, they must have a way to influence and manipulate their environment, and any advanced alien species would logically have the same requirement. That does put *some* limitations on what an alien species might look like, but not that much I think. Whether you use hands, a prehensile proboscis, or tentacles to manipulate things - the end result is the same. That said, the anatomy of our hands is almost perfect for this.

[PunchFaceReporter]

And the dude behind looks like a Prothean.

Yeah he's got the Prothean shoulder pads.

[Beerfish]

 I too find it an overused term. Most of the time incorrectly. Still, there's no denying Bioware does it on occasion.

 

Bottom line is, Javik was portrayed as the very last Prothean. Could Bioware have us arrive in Andromeda and simply tell us "hey, guess what? The Protheans aren't extinct, they ran away from the Reapers before we did. No biggie." Sure they could. Of course, that'd cheapen the significance of what Javik represented, as well as undermine what we accomplished by travelling across dark space to an entirely different galaxy.

 

 

Something about getting there just to find out "hey, Javik wasn't the last. Not even close. All that drama in ME3 was for nothing." And  "Silly primitive. You thought you were the first to flee to this whole new, fresh galaxy to escape the Reapers. Been there. Done that."

 

Seems like a cop-out. Would it be a retcon on the part of Javik no longer being the last Prothean? Debatable. But definitely a cop-out.

The bolded part is the answer.  It was portrayed that there were ZERO protheans left they were all wiped out.  We then find out there is actually one, with zero real reason or evidence that there should not be more if they found one.  You are the last until the next one is found and there is nothing terribly outlandish in thinking since one pod was found that there may be others.

 

The protheans actually had a good number that were never wiped out, see Ilos.  I don't find it to be a retcon or a cop out.  Do I particulary want another prothy the prothean hanging around?  not really but there are a some very valid reasons that I do not find outlandish as to why you might encounter one or more.

[PunchFaceReporter]

The bolded part is the answer.  It was portrayed that there were ZERO protheans left they were all wiped out.  We then find out there is actually one, with zero real reason or evidence that there should not be more if they found one.  You are the last until the next one is found and there is nothing terribly outlandish in thinking since one pod was found that there may be others.
 
The protheans actually had a good number that were never wiped out, see Ilos.  I don't find it to be a retcon or a cop out.  Do I particulary want another prothy the prothean hanging around?  not really but there are a some very valid reasons that I do not find outlandish as to why you might encounter one or more.

Plus they were much more advanced than the aliens in the current cycle.

[EpicNewb]

If we get a Prothy, our squadmates better be more than 7 or Bioware needs to grab its balls and cutout bs squaddies (male human sidekick, Asari, etc)

[PunchFaceReporter]

If we get a Prothy, our squadmates better be more than 7 or Bioware needs to grab its balls and cutout bs squaddies (male human sidekick, Asari, etc)

idk I think human male and female are a must for people who don't like alien romances. Also since we'll be finding a new home for humanity, more humans make sense. Not really bothered about having an asari squadmate though.

[EpicNewb]

idk I think human male and female are a must for people who don't like alien romances. Also since we'll be finding a new home for humanity, more humans make sense. Not really bothered about having an asari squadmate though.

Those people can go romance humans irl.  It feels much better.

[SKAR]

If we get a Prothy, our squadmates better be more than 7 or Bioware needs to grab its balls and cutout bs squaddies (male human sidekick, Asari, etc)

Unless the asari is over 300 years old and purple.