I'm not talking about the fight. Afterwards, he suggests being allowed to leave; even at max approval. I had to convince him to stay.
I never offered to let him go so I cannot say. I just remember him wanting to be freed from his vow after killing his former crows, and me convincing him to stay.
Well, yeah. He doesn't know what to do with himself now that he's free of the Crows, so he asks the Warden for advice. You gain approval if you let him stay with you.
And my point is him even asking for advice or requesting to leave shows redemption isn't a priority for him. If it was, he wouldn't even be discussing leaving shortly before the final battle to save Ferelden. He stays for the warden; not for redemption or even Ferelden.
I freed him from his vow, I wanted to stay with me freely. I told him, he can go where he wants, it's his life. He ask me, what I want, then I repeated to him, that is his decide. He told me: nobody never offered him this before, then, if I want, he prefer to stay with me. It was a good scene (I think this option working not only in romance...)
Totally going down this path with my Warden that romances him. 
Amaze balls. 
And my point is him even asking for advice or requesting to leave shows redemption isn't a priority for him. If it was, he wouldn't even be discussing leaving shortly before the final battle to save Ferelden. He stays for the warden; not for redemption or even Ferelden.
That sounds like a Morrigany thing to do. She leaves if you don't give her what she wanted and Zevran leaves once he no longer needs you for protection.
And my point is him even asking for advice or requesting to leave shows redemption isn't a priority for him. If it was, he wouldn't even be discussing leaving shortly before the final battle to save Ferelden. He stays for the warden; not for redemption or even Ferelden.
That sounds like a Morrigany thing to do. She leaves if you don't give her what she wanted and Zevran leaves once he no longer needs you for protection.
Hmm, my favourite companions are probably
DAO
Hard to pick between her and Morrigan, but Leliana. I love that you can turn around, ask her if she has any stories, and she can spin off tale after tale. Talking to her is so rewarding. She's sympathetic once you learn of her past, and, while Morrigan's banter with Alistair is hilarious, sometimes Morrigan is too much of a cynical ******, even for me.
DA2
Varric, obviously.
DAI
Probably Dorian. I didn't like him at first, but his recruitment mission is maybe the best mission in the whole game. He's caring, but not a simp. He's talented, but not arrogant (and when he is, he's usually self-aware). He really gives us an insight into Tevinter, shows that not all Vints are bad, and he is also genuinely quite charming. And dat moustache.
I think my worst would be:
DAO
Sten. He's so grumpy, and his character model stands out as particularly ugly, in a world where even the prettiest girl in Orlais is ugly. Also, dude, maybe don't throw a tantrum and murder a bunch of innocents because you lost your sword, mmkay?
DA2
Probably Anders. both he and Fenris are a pair of whiny, angsty idealogues who never shut up and act like teenagers. What seals the deal for Anders though is that he's an insane terrorist. At least Fenris only went after the people responsible for slavery.
DAI
Vivienne. Her selfishness really comes through in very ugly ways, especially when her lover dies. She thinks she's better than everyone else, when she only really got to where she is by sleeping with the right guy. She never really uses her diplomatic skills to help the Inquisition, she's leader of the circle, but we never see her lead anyone, and, to be honest, Solas (knows about the fade) and Dorian (time travel magic) outclass her as mages by a country mile. And she reminds me of many people in the real world, who defend broken, unjust systems because they managed to benefit from it, completely ignorant, apathetic, or both, to how others less fortunate struggle.
But he's asking about what he's supposed to do after he's fulfilled his vow.
(But I get what you mean about redemption, though I never felt like he needed to be redeemed, as such. He comes around on his own, no longer taking out marks for the Crows and instead going after the Crows themselves...).
He doesn't, though. He only asks what he should do after the Blight is over with, and he offers to travel with the Warden. He can even stick around and help train recruits?
Hmm, my favourite companions are probably
DAO
Hard to pick between her and Morrigan, but Leliana. I love that you can turn around, ask her if she has any stories, and she can spin off tale after tale. Talking to her is so rewarding. She's sympathetic once you learn of her past, and, while Morrigan's banter with Alistair is hilarious, sometimes Morrigan is too much of a cynical ******, even for me.
DA2
Varric, obviously.
DAI
Probably Dorian. I didn't like him at first, but his recruitment mission is maybe the best mission in the whole game. He's caring, but not a simp. He's talented, but not arrogant (and when he is, he's usually self-aware). He really gives us an insight into Tevinter, shows that not all Vints are bad, and he is also genuinely quite charming. And dat moustache.
I think my worst would be:
DAO
Sten. He's so grumpy, and his character model stands out as particularly ugly, in a world where even the prettiest girl in Orlais is ugly. Also, dude, maybe don't throw a tantrum and murder a bunch of innocents because you lost your sword, mmkay?
DA2
Probably Anders. both he and Fenris are a pair of whiny, angsty idealogues who never shut up and act like teenagers. What seals the deal for Anders though is that he's an insane terrorist. At least Fenris only went after the people responsible for slavery.
DAI
Vivienne. Her selfishness really comes through in very ugly ways, especially when her lover dies. She thinks she's better than everyone else, when she only really got to where she is by sleeping with the right guy. She never really uses her diplomatic skills to help the Inquisition, she's leader of the circle, but we never see her lead anyone, and, to be honest, Solas (knows about the fade) and Dorian (time travel magic) outclass her as mages by a country mile. And she reminds me of many people in the real world, who defend broken, unjust systems because they managed to benefit from it, completely ignorant, apathetic, or both, to how others less fortunate struggle.
[...]
DAI
Probably Dorian. I didn't like him at first, but his recruitment mission is maybe the best mission in the whole game. He's caring, but not a simp. He's talented, but not arrogant (and when he is, he's usually self-aware). He really gives us an insight into Tevinter, shows that not all Vints are bad, and he is also genuinely quite charming. And dat moustache.
I think my worst would be:
DAO
Sten. He's so grumpy, and his character model stands out as particularly ugly, in a world where even the prettiest girl in Orlais is ugly. Also, dude, maybe don't throw a tantrum and murder a bunch of innocents because you lost your sword, mmkay?
DA2
Probably Anders. both he and Fenris are a pair of whiny, angsty idealogues who never shut up and act like teenagers. What seals the deal for Anders though is that he's an insane terrorist. At least Fenris only went after the people responsible for slavery.
[...]
Dorian too stereotypical, I like him, but not my favorite. (Tevinter interesting)
Sten is fun. One of my favorite.
Anders and Fenris not only two angry/whiny kids. They are among the best characters. They each have their reasons for they behave. (True, much people hate they.)
And my point is him even asking for advice or requesting to leave shows redemption isn't a priority for him. If it was, he wouldn't even be discussing leaving shortly before the final battle to save Ferelden. He stays for the warden; not for redemption or even Ferelden.
Redemption isn't only to be found by the Warden's side. Sten says that if the Warden doesn't lead Sten to his atonement, he'll find it himself. I'm sure Zev is perfectly capable of the same.
In the case of a low-approval Warden, I can certainly see that he'd be eager to cut loose from them. He might stay because he owes them, but if the Warden has been going around killing Dalish and choosing blood sacrifice rituals, he probably doubts he could find redemption near someone like that.
At high approval, he's obviously fishing for some sign that the Warden likes him enough to want him around. At that point, he's willing to storm the gates of the Black City itself with them. So yes, he stays for the Warden and redemption has nothing to do with it.
One of the best scenes.
I pretty much always choose my companions for RP purposes except in dire boss-battle circumstances.
Faves:
DAO: Leliana, Zev, Alistair, Dog. My original and eternal dream team. I will admit, I don't enjoy the bickering/cat-scratch groups so much when it comes to party combos. I might enjoy them on youtube, but I usually don't want them while I'm exploring. My two rogues and Ali get along just enough, but not so well that they're boring. And I adore every single one of this trio. And who doesn't love Dog? Sometimes I like him even more than Alistair. Damn, I miss this team.
DA2: This one is hard because even with my favourites I still have the frequent and insistent urge to beat them with a rolled-up newspaper. My Hawke has a freakish level of patience for their b-ing, but I do not. My favourites: Aveline, Fenris, Carver. At least with this party there's more sulking and grousing than outright bickering.
DAI: Cass, who I want to love and squish forever. Solas, who I romanced and who surprisingly gave me the worst Bioware heart-laceration ever (good job man, I totally didn't see that coming). And Varric, who even when he has angst, wears it lightly. I didn't appreciate him enough in DA2.
Bonus Most Hated:
DAO: I don't actually hate anyone in this game. But Morrigan gets close sometimes. And I always feel like I'm missing out on something with Shale. I think she's very entertaining and interesting, but I don't actually like her much at all.
DA2: Anderssssss *hissing into the sunset*. And I pretty much share Varric's attitude towards Sebastian.
DAI: Viv. Sera, after the temple of Mythal.
Best (Ignoring any characters who were in multiple games, like Varric or Leliana)
DA: O - Zevran - He just helped make the game fun, was good at bringing up practical concerns, and he had a lot of character depth. I never romanced him, but I never wanted to.
DA2 - Merrill - With everyone a sarcastic jerk, her innocence was a nice contrast. Plus, she got some sick burns I never saw coming, and her quest was very well-written, delivering a great Aesop that isn't really delivered.
DAI - Cassandra - She's feels like a real woman with real struggles in a world that she really can't understand. Crisises of faith aren't done very well, but hers was.
Least favorite would be
DA: O - Shale, followed closely by Sten. Shale was completely boring and not nearly as funny as everyone thinks. Sten introduced the qun, and I saw right away how awful it was just by his speech.
DA2 - Fenris. Anders may have had his "Dammit Anders" moment, but I can accept the fact that Anders wasn't acting normal because he wasn't, he was an abomination, and they aren't normal people. But Fenris was just a bitter drunk who gave Carver a run for his wangsting, and at least fixed it after he joined the Templars/Wardens.
DAI - Dorian. A cliche quest, a personality that was a poor man's Varric, and literally half the things people about him is "ZOMG gay character!" As if gays are some zoo exhibit.
Best (Ignoring any characters who were in multiple games, like Varric or Leliana)
DA: O - Zevran - He just helped make the game fun, was good at bringing up practical concerns, and he had a lot of character depth. I never romanced him, but I never wanted to.
DA2 - Merrill - With everyone a sarcastic jerk, her innocence was a nice contrast. Plus, she got some sick burns I never saw coming, and her quest was very well-written, delivering a great Aesop that isn't really delivered.
DAI - Cassandra - She's feels like a real woman with real struggles in a world that she really can't understand. Crisises of faith aren't done very well, but hers was.
Least favorite would be
DA: O - Shale, followed closely by Sten. Shale was completely boring and not nearly as funny as everyone thinks. Sten introduced the qun, and I saw right away how awful it was just by his speech.
DA2 - Fenris. Anders may have had his "Dammit Anders" moment, but I can accept the fact that Anders wasn't acting normal because he wasn't, he was an abomination, and they aren't normal people. But Fenris was just a bitter drunk who gave Carver a run for his wangsting, and at least fixed it after he joined the Templars/Wardens.
DAI - Dorian. A cliche quest, a personality that was a poor man's Varric, and literally half the things people about him is "ZOMG gay character!" As if gays are some zoo exhibit.
I like Merrill (for similar reasons), and Cassandra because she can be very practical, even if she disagree with Inquisitor.
Zevran have some very tiresome jokes and moments, but yes, he are good companion, I like him.
Fenris have good dry and sarcastic humour, better than sometimes Zevran (not as annoying). If you place him in the team, you can see that he is not always sad and angry. (First he annoyed me too, so much, but later I had give him a chance.)
Anders an interesting character, and one of the main reasons that he is not entirely himself, that he is an "Abomination". (Of course, many people hate that, I can understand, why.)
Dorian: Yes, I feel similarly about him.
Redemption isn't only to be found by the Warden's side. Sten says that if the Warden doesn't lead Sten to his atonement, he'll find it himself. I'm sure Zev is perfectly capable of the same.
The Warden was already leading Zevran to it, if that's what he desired. Zevran wanting to leave shortly before the final battle to save Ferelden indicates he didn't care about such. I don't recall him ever saying anything about wanting redemption anyway.
The Warden was already leading Zevran to it, if that's what he desired. Zevran wanting to leave shortly before the final battle to save Ferelden indicates he didn't care about such. I don't recall him ever saying anything about wanting redemption anyway.
Perhaps you were not good enough relationship with him.
Perhaps you were not good enough relationship with him.
I already said I had max approval.
I already said I had max approval.
Okay, then maybe I remember wrong.
I already said I had max approval.
The Warden was already leading Zevran to it, if that's what he desired. Zevran wanting to leave shortly before the final battle to save Ferelden indicates he didn't care about such. I don't recall him ever saying anything about wanting redemption anyway.
At max approval, doesn't it seem more like he wants to stay and is just seeking reassurance that the Warden still wants him around? He's not all that subtle about it either. At that level of approval, he doesn't actually want to leave. He just wants to know you like him 
Still not proof that he cares about redemption, but if you're looking for that, consider the high approval dialogue you have with him where he says that he has never been a part of something 'so worthy' (as your quest to end the Blight) and that in your travels together he's found 'what he's looking for'. If you care about Zevran's soul so much, there's plenty of indicators that he does wrestle with the moral trajectory of his life and isn't all about the sex and the murderfun.
I gotta say, this kinda baffles me, why do so many people seem to care so much about "redemption"? I've never personally felt it was something I needed from characters in order to like them, is that just me? Some characters are kinda dicks, but they're still understandable and likeable to me, I don't feel like I need for them to repent for all their misdeeds to want the best for them, as my pc. They're my friends, that's all I care about.
I gotta say, this kinda baffles me, why do so many people seem to care so much about "redemption"? I've never personally felt it was something I needed from characters in order to like them, is that just me? Some characters are kinda dicks, but they're still understandable and likeable to me, I don't feel like I need for them to repent for all their misdeeds to want the best for them, as my pc. They're my friends, that's all I care about.
I gotta say, this kinda baffles me, why do so many people seem to care so much about "redemption"? I've never personally felt it was something I needed from characters in order to like them, is that just me? Some characters are kinda dicks, but they're still understandable and likeable to me, I don't feel like I need for them to repent for all their misdeeds to want the best for them, as my pc. They're my friends, that's all I care about.
Like it or not, in both DA and ME you are forced to align with characters with questionable backgrounds. While you are generally stuck with certain characters, my more moral PCs would not lose any sleep over their deaths.If the character is a villain, then it is fine. But I don't want a remorseless killer as a companion and certainly not a friend.
You say "misdeeds" like it's the same as regular mistakes everybody has made once or twice.
If the character is a villain, then it is fine. But I don't want a remorseless killer as a companion and certainly not a friend.
You say "misdeeds" like it's the same as regular mistakes everybody has made once or twice.
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