105 réponses à ce sujet

[darkway1]

The whole direction/pitch of Andromeda has been established to basically avoid dealing with ending MESS created by Mass3,the endings were far to epic for their own good and broke their own franchise in my opinion. Regardless of how Andromeda ends,I guess it will leave plenty of scope for continued adventures in Andromeda.......Bioware can't really take Mass Effect home (earth) without addressing the Mass 3 aftermath.

 

I hoped Andromeda would be a franchise reboot,meaning they had a clean creative slate to work with but from what I've read Andromeda seems to be in the same sandbox as Mass Effect,so again Bioware had dug themselves into a creative hole again.

[AlanC9]

The reboot idea was never all that popular from what I've seen, although it does have its fans.

[Furisco]

ME3's final mission forgot to even have a mission at all. It's like some beta test map or something... barely any squad talk, no interaction with other teams (let alone the galactic force you brought with you). Very lackluster way to end the Battle to End All Battles.

 

I love Mass Effect 3 and i'm against all the hate the game gets, but the last mission is really bad... And i'm not even talking about the ending, the mission itself just feels incomplete when should've been an epic, strong and emotional battle.

[In Exile]

The reboot idea was never all that popular from what I've seen, although it does have its fans.

 

How do you reboot it without basically getting into the same issues with the Reapers? The fact that the Reapers trolled the galaxy is pretty central to the plot in ME1. Even if fans were receptive, I don't think there's really a way to do it, because ME1's main problem is that its whole blot is half-baked nonsense. 

[AlanC9]

Well, Iakus, IIRC, had the idea of just not having any Reapers. The Protheans really did build the Citadel and the relays, and we never do find out what happened to them. So the ME1 plot problems just go away too.

[UpUpAway95]

Well, Iakus, IIRC, had the idea of just not having any Reapers. The Protheans really did build the Citadel and the relays, and we never do find out what happened to them. So the ME1 plot problems just go away too.

 

That's really the same degree of "rebootness" as moving a similar story line to the Andromeda setting, isn't it?  One just says the "unnecessary stuff" is the setting and the other says it's the overarching thrust of the main plot.

[darkway1]

How do you reboot it without basically getting into the same issues with the Reapers? The fact that the Reapers trolled the galaxy is pretty central to the plot in ME1. Even if fans were receptive, I don't think there's really a way to do it, because ME1's main problem is that its whole blot is half-baked nonsense. 

A reboot ignores everything in the established Mass Effect Universe and starts again,reapers don't need to exist,Asari can be male,Crogan can be female only.......it's  reboot,do what ever you want.

[KaiserShep]

How do you reboot it without basically getting into the same issues with the Reapers? The fact that the Reapers trolled the galaxy is pretty central to the plot in ME1. Even if fans were receptive, I don't think there's really a way to do it, because ME1's main problem is that its whole blot is half-baked nonsense.

I guess it would just be the geth, though the plot would probably be reworked so we don't really know what attacked Eden Prime or something. Not sure how Saren could work there, since indoctrination was also a big part of it. Really though, I think the reapers were fine; they just needed to plan things out better.

[In Exile]

Well, Iakus, IIRC, had the idea of just not having any Reapers. The Protheans really did build the Citadel and the relays, and we never do find out what happened to them. So the ME1 plot problems just go away too.

The entirety of the ME1 plot goes away. Is Saren just insane in this case? Why do the geth suddenly attack? Or do the geth suddenly attack? Does the entire series try to be about politics and humanity's rise to the ubermensch race of the galaxy?

Even if we get around the unfired Chekhov's gun of the protheans and their magic dissappearance, what would the plot of this hypothetical ME even be? Humanity continuing to crush the Batarians when the Council generally looks away?

The world doesn't have enough to it in ME to sustain an interstitial plot IMO.

[Il Divo]

How do you reboot it without basically getting into the same issues with the Reapers? The fact that the Reapers trolled the galaxy is pretty central to the plot in ME1. Even if fans were receptive, I don't think there's really a way to do it, because ME1's main problem is that its whole blot is half-baked nonsense. 

 

I think it's like Alan said: the idea would be reboot, essentially an alternate Mass Effect universe where everything but the Reapers and main plot happened. Something like this would have to come down to how much enjoyment people think they could get out of side stories in the Mass Effect universe. 

[In Exile]

I think it's like Alan said: the idea would be reboot, essentially an alternate Mass Effect universe where everything but the Reapers and main plot happened. Something like this would have to come down to how much enjoyment people think they could get out of side stories in the Mass Effect universe.

But that means nothing happens. Even a lot of the core history - like the rachni wars - has to be rewritten (I guess the rachni were just awful).

It's not a bad idea per se - it just means ME2 style loyalty missions which were the best part of the series. But it's a radically different one and it's hard to see what main plot it would have as a result. You'd basically need a political plot lime TW2. And that's hard to execute - even CDPR failed do it it again in TW3.

[CronoDragoon]

From the Kotaku interview:

 

"Here’s one thing some trilogy fans may appreciate knowing: they’re determined to nail the ending this time, especially after the divided fan reaction to Mass Effect 3’s ending. “I think it’s fair to say we are very sensitive on the project about our ending. And we a lot of internal focus testing on it as well,” Walters said. “That’s probably something we’re more aware of and we’re paying more attention to it for sure. It’s changed in that regard.""

[ld1449]

From the Kotaku interview:

 

"Here’s one thing some trilogy fans may appreciate knowing: they’re determined to nail the ending this time, especially after the divided fan reaction to Mass Effect 3’s ending. “I think it’s fair to say we are very sensitive on the project about our ending. And we a lot of internal focus testing on it as well,” Walters said. “That’s probably something we’re more aware of and we’re paying more attention to it for sure. It’s changed in that regard.""

 

Yes, because clearly Mac Walters is a guy to trust. I mean it wasn't like he assured people letting the Rachni live or die was going to make a huge difference while he was promoting ME3... Oh wait.

[darkway1]

From the Kotaku interview:

 

"Here’s one thing some trilogy fans may appreciate knowing: they’re determined to nail the ending this time, especially after the divided fan reaction to Mass Effect 3’s ending. “I think it’s fair to say we are very sensitive on the project about our ending. And we a lot of internal focus testing on it as well,” Walters said. “That’s probably something we’re more aware of and we’re paying more attention to it for sure. It’s changed in that regard.""

 

Of course they are sensitive about the ending,Bioware can scream "artistic integrity" to justify the ending of Mass3 but there's no getting away from those endings breaking their own franchise..........not really a smart thing to do if you intend to continue with the franchise.  

[Lyrandori]

ME1's ending was awesome. ME2's ending was good (suicide mission was great, until you get to the Terminator wannabe; then it destroys all suspension of disbelief and becomes a comedy). ME3 had the worst last mission possible (London), with horrible ending(s) (and it doesn't matter if you'd happen to headcannon that the ending stopped at the Anderson death scene, you still have to admit the disappointment that was London prior to going inside the Citadel).

 

With the Dragon Age franchise, it's a mixed bag. The ending(s) for Origins were good, generally-speaking. Then they just had a brain fart with DA2. Then with Inquisition (vanilla) it was extremely bland, and underwhelming, with what ended up being one of the weakest (in my opinion, the weakest) villain BioWare ever created (Cory was alright up to Heaven; after which he became too distant and a negligible threat, with your Inquisition having victories left and right, up and down without having to go through any major hardship or losses). Then Tresspasser came out and pretty much repeated the underwhelming feeling of vanilla Inquisition's ending (get to Solas, - not before a disappointing "last fight," of course - have a conversation with him, and that was... it; incredible climax there BioWare)... albeit it did answer a crap load of questions, and had a pretty decent epilogue to explain what happened next to specific characters, which is always good to have.

 

Now, the thing is Andromeda had a new lead writer. So who knows what's going to happen. Maybe it'll be your 'usual BioWare' game; I.E. having overall great voice acting (fitting for each characters), memorable charactes, along with good chacacter-specific stories (or anything regarding their loyalty missions), with a "meh" main story arc, although it may have a good 'final mission' (prior to, or right after you get to bang your LI of course... since the ending is possibly near; so it's time to have some fun, BioWare game oblige), followed by a very underwhelming and anti climactic actual ending, without any epilogue whatsoever. That, OR... it's going to end up being the best action RPG ever created since Witcher 3, and we'll praise our new BioWare Overlords for the next four or five years until they release Andromeda 2 (or their new IP).

 

My gut feeling tells me: 1) It'll have superb characters (and great stories specific to each of them), 2) It'll have great voice acting. 3) It's going to be very cinematic, and well edited (ME2-style), 3) The multiplayer will be amazing, with much more customization. 4) But the general main story arc will be "okay" at best (I'm voting on "meh"), and there's going to be hardly any really tough decisions to make with profound consequences to deal with (if they're truly not planning for a new trilogy, there'd be no reasons for us to have to take decisions that would have great impact for any future titles that would be direct sequels to Andromeda).

 

To be frank, I don't actually expect a good main story arc, nor a good ending. What I DO expect is what I know BioWare can and usually DO deliver something like 90% of the time, which are: good, fun and memorable characters, good voice acting (at least generally-speaking), most likely good loyalty missions (going along with character-specific stories, which I'm pretty sure will be good) and a good multiplayer (well, it'll be good, even awesome in my book, if they stick to the ME3 formula and don't change it too much).

[Miserybot]

Nah, no way. Why on earth would anyone want a strong ending for Mass Effect Andromeda?

 

The only way anyone will be happy is if the ending is weak, abrupt, and leaves us all dissapointed. If Bioware could just cut off the last few hours of the game, and sell it as the "true ending" DLC for $59.99, oh my word, that would just be amazing!

[KaiserShep]

I get it. I don't imagine my frustration makes much sense then.

 

I think Jack and Tali are kind of friends. And Garrus is fun with them too. They're all kind of friendly in my mind. So it sucks to not see it live up to its potential.

 

Whoever you like though, they had a wealth of material, and it got squandered. I don't know any other series (games, books, movies, tv, etc) that gets smaller and quieter over time. 

 

 

I get the frustration. I don't like companion upheaval, so what you felt is probably similar to how I felt when I first played ME2. You can imagine my relief when I was doing the Archangel recruitment mission.

[CronoDragoon]

Yes, because clearly Mac Walters is a guy to trust. I mean it wasn't like he assured people letting the Rachni live or die was going to make a huge difference while he was promoting ME3... Oh wait.

 

It doesn't matter whether you trust him to write a good ending or not (he's not even a writer, anyway). It's good news that they are doing internal focus testing, because there's a good chance that would have ironed at least some of the kinks of ME3's ending.

[In Exile]

Yes, because clearly Mac Walters is a guy to trust. I mean it wasn't like he assured people letting the Rachni live or die was going to make a huge difference while he was promoting ME3... Oh wait.

It's his job. You might not believe him, but as creative director talking about the creative direction is actually his job.

[slimgrin]

You can't pin everything on Walters. Imagine the complexity of dozens of team leads influencing you and telling you how things should play out. Besides, the problems with ME3's story are so blatant. I'm willing to give him a second chance.  

[ld1449]

You can't pin everything on Walters. Imagine the complexity of dozens of team leads influencing you and telling you how things should play out. Besides, the problems with ME3's story are so blatant. I'm willing to give him a second chance.  

 

From everything gathered he was actually *in charge* of the most blatant problems of ME3's writing mistakes.

 

The start of the game, Kai Leng, the Ending, and the Crucible itself were all his contributions. The only one that might be mittigated would be Kai Leng since the cutscenes were the biggest issue with him, but the writing/dialogue wasn't exactly riveting either.

 

Don't know why you'd be willing to give him a second chance when all examples of his writing, from his game writing to his comics, are ****. Only thing of real note he gives are archtype characters. Plot seems to be led by the nose on "rule of cool" with him.

[RoboticWater]

From the Kotaku interview:

 

"Here’s one thing some trilogy fans may appreciate knowing: they’re determined to nail the ending this time, especially after the divided fan reaction to Mass Effect 3’s ending. “I think it’s fair to say we are very sensitive on the project about our ending. And we a lot of internal focus testing on it as well,” Walters said. “That’s probably something we’re more aware of and we’re paying more attention to it for sure. It’s changed in that regard.""

Internal testing isn't likely to prevent the gross thematic departure and complete train wreck that was ME3's entire main plot. I'm glad that they're making an attempt to fix the kinks (there were certainly many of those), but for me, the problem exists at a creative level. I suppose if you were a fan of the ending post EC, then you'd take this as reassuring, but for those of us that saw the ending as an inevitable consequence of all the nonsense that preceded it, it means very little.

 

Unfortunately, there's not many ways for BioWare to assure me that ME:A is going to have a thematically coherent and otherwise fairly solid narrative without denouncing ME3, so all I can do is hope that Schlerf and the rest of the writing team kept it simple and didn't decide to drop acid during preproduction.

[CronoDragoon]

Internal testing isn't likely to prevent the gross thematic departure and complete train wreck that was ME3's entire main plot. I'm glad that they're making an attempt to fix the kinks (there were certainly many of those), but for me, the problem exists at a creative level. I suppose if you were a fan of the ending post EC, then you'd take this as reassuring, but for those of us that saw the ending as an inevitable consequence of all the nonsense that preceded it, it means very little.

 

Unfortunately, there's not many ways for BioWare to assure me that ME:A is going to have a thematically coherent and otherwise fairly solid narrative without denouncing ME3, so all I can do is hope that Schlerf and the rest of the writing team kept it simple and didn't decide to drop acid during preproduction.

 

Mass Effect 3's main plot up to the ending was by no means a gross thematic departure nor a complete train wreck, and the ending wasn't internally reviewed, which is why this is good news. As for ME3's story issues before the ending, while not perfect, it's no worse than any of the nonsense that also exists in ME1 and ME2, so it's very strange to single out ME3 there.

[KaiserShep]

...so all I can do is hope that Schlerf and the rest of the writing team kept it simple and didn't decide to drop acid during preproduction.

 

 

Actually, dropping acid during preproduction could come up with some interesting results. 

[In Exile]

Mass Effect 3's main plot up to the ending was by no means a gross thematic departure nor a complete train wreck, and the ending wasn't internally reviewed, which is why this is good news. As for ME3's story issues before the ending, while not perfect, it's no worse than any of the nonsense that also exists in ME1 and ME2, so it's very strange to single out ME3 there.

We'll have to agree to disagree. ME3 abandoned not just themes of the series but the themes of the actual game they developed. The organic vs. synthetic nonsense being the most fundamental betrayal of a series that up to that point tried to take a very cynical look on intergroup relationships (e.g. the salarians want to perpetuate the genophage).