105 réponses à ce sujet

[RoboticWater]

Mass Effect 3's main plot up to the ending was by no means a gross thematic departure nor a complete train wreck, and the ending wasn't internally reviewed, which is why this is good news. As for ME3's story issues before the ending, while not perfect, it's no worse than any of the nonsense that also exists in ME1 and ME2, so it's very strange to single out ME3 there.

I could expand on why I believe ME3's main plot is utter garbage, but I won't. My point wasn't to resurrect a well-beaten horse; it was to voice my doubts about the effectiveness of internal review. ME3's problems didn't come in after the ball started rolling, they existed at a conceptual level.

 

Like I said earlier, internal review can only be a good thing; I just don't think it's enough for me.

[ziyon conqueror]

I want an ending that says hope, as the good endings of ME1 and ME2 showed.

[straykat]

I love Mass Effect 3 and i'm against all the hate the game gets, but the last mission is really bad... And i'm not even talking about the ending, the mission itself just feels incomplete when should've been an epic, strong and emotional battle.

 

Yeah, I don't have a problem with much else except that and the lack of ME2 Squad (but I don't dislike the actual endings. Just Priority Earth).

[SKAR]

Yeah, I don't have a problem with much else except that and the lack of ME2 Squad (but I don't dislike the actual endings. Just Priority Earth).

Priority Earth was good up until you know what. I wish we could've fought in Paris instead of London. I think of Paris as a good setting for a final offensive but London was cool. I'm also sad that we didn't see much of Earth in general in the ME trilogy. And we never will.

[TheJediSaint]

Priority Earth would've worked if the game cut to credits before the magic elevator ride.

[SKAR]

Priority Earth would've worked if the game cut to credits before the magic elevator ride.

hmmm. Cliffhanger would've worked. They should've had a dlc make your own ending.

[AlanC9]

We'll have to agree to disagree. ME3 abandoned not just themes of the series but the themes of the actual game they developed. The organic vs. synthetic nonsense being the most fundamental betrayal of a series that up to that point tried to take a very cynical look on intergroup relationships (e.g. the salarians want to perpetuate the genophage).

Well, you can also make a case that the revelations in the ending are just another example of that cynical look on intergroup relations. It turns out that the MEU has been running on organic vs. synthetic nonsense forever, and it really is still just nonsense.

[TheJediSaint]

Well, you can also make a case that the revelations in the ending are just another example of that cynical look on intergroup relations. It turns out that the MEU has been running on organic vs. synthetic nonsense forever, and it really is still just nonsense.

 

I really doubt that much though was put into the ending.

[In Exile]

Well, you can also make a case that the revelations in the ending are just another example of that cynical look on intergroup relations. It turns out that the MEU has been running on organic vs. synthetic nonsense forever, and it really is still just nonsense.

 

I'm not sure I follow. The endings, played straight, seem to take it for granted that the blender option is a definitive end to conflict. Not just the largely imagined and newly-introduced organics v. synthetics conflict, but the idea of conflict itself (e.g. Wreav's genophage cured krogan don't start a galaxy-wide jihad ala the Fremen). 

[KaiserShep]

Priority Earth was good up until you know what. I wish we could've fought in Paris instead of London. I think of Paris as a good setting for a final offensive but London was cool. I'm also sad that we didn't see much of Earth in general in the ME trilogy. And we never will.

Have a final fight in front of the Louvre like Edge of Tomorrow.

[SKAR]

Have a final fight in front of the Louvre like Edge of Tomorrow.

You read my mind although I was thinking more like the Eiffel Tower.

[straykat]

Then Anderson could go... "I was born in Paris..."

[SKAR]

Then Anderson could go... "I was born in Paris..."

Hah.

[The Dank Warden]

Priority Earth was good up until you know what. I wish we could've fought in Paris instead of London. I think of Paris as a good setting for a final offensive but London was cool. I'm also sad that we didn't see much of Earth in general in the ME trilogy. And we never will.

They did it on London because in the true ending Dr Who shows up and face Harbringer not like the cowards on the Normandy (final stand battle mean to the death ffs)...

[SKAR]

They did it on London because in the true ending Dr Who shows up and face Harbringer not like the cowards on the Normandy (final stand battle mean to the death ffs)...

I would like your comment but **** quota.

[The Dank Warden]

I would like your comment but **** quota.

what with it?

[echoness]

ME2 did a good job with strong ending

 

- All crew members and important NPCs are taking part of it.

- Choices really have consequences.

- No weird plot twists.

 

Just these simple rules. BioWare did it once why not again.

[ssanyesz]

ME2 did a good job with strong ending

 

- All crew members and important NPCs are taking part of it.

- Choices really have consequences.

- No weird plot twists.

 

Just these simple rules. BioWare did it once why not again.

 

ME1 ending was also awesome, no wonder everybody were hyped for ME2.

 

I always get goosebumps when i'm watching this ending: https://www.youtube....h?v=XQ50Gs1Ttwg

 

Music was awesome too, doctor who has something similar, getting goosebumps there too.

[echoness]

ME1 ending was also awesome, no wonder everybody were hyped for ME2.

 

I always get goosebumps when i'm watching this ending: https://www.youtube....h?v=XQ50Gs1Ttwg

 

Music was awesome too, doctor who has something similar, getting goosebumps there too.

 

Indeed. ME1 ending is awesome because the gorgeous environmental design and the feel of our efforts in the game finally pays off. Another thing I appreciate ME's story is there are a lot fore-shadowing in early games. Like the Citadel prototype relay model turns out to be a our back door of the Conduit. Indoctrination effects when first talked to the scientists on Eden Prime. Every main quest reveals one part of lore of the 50000 years cycle and Saren's true intention. It is brilliant and feels continuously, nothing is rushed. 

[UpUpAway]

Well, you can also make a case that the revelations in the ending are just another example of that cynical look on intergroup relations. It turns out that the MEU has been running on organic vs. synthetic nonsense forever, and it really is still just nonsense.

 

I think this is another very possible conclusion given, in particular, Javik's assertions that experience actually leaves biological markers (i.e. cosmic imperative discussion with Shepard)... i.e. alters DNA.  On that level, the synthesis ending could be interpreted as just an advanced form of sharing experiences and reaching an understanding of each other enough that it results in a lasting peace.  Control and Destroy would also arbitrarily alter the DNA of the survivors of those endings based on merely having gone through the experience.

 

I actually think that the ME3 ending is a strong ending... on the level that it leaves the player with an untold amount of moral questions that are NOT answered.  In short, it has made each and every one of us THINK about the endings and what they mean.  There is absolutely no doubt that they are frustrating... to some they are absolutely heartbreaking, devastating, etc. (not so good things)... but from the point of view of demanding a reflection of everything in the end... they are strong.  I do think, though, that people really want a different sort of strong ending for ME:A.

[AlanC9]

Still, In Exile raised a valid objection there about krogan in Synthesis. I suppose you can fanwank it by saying that upgraded Wreav is just plain smarter and knows that a war wouldn't go well, but that's a bit of a kluge.

[UpUpAway]

Still, In Exile raised a valid objection there about krogan in Synthesis. I suppose you can fanwank it by saying that upgraded Wreav is just plain smarter and knows that a war wouldn't go well, but that's a bit of a kluge.

 

I'm not fan-wanking it and I perfectly accept, not just In Exile's criticisms... but everyone's.  It would be stupid to say that ME3's endings were "good" when they were, undoubtedly "bad" in a lot of different ways.  I'm just saying that, they can be considered strong from a very specific POV - they have made us all "think" about them for 4 years.  However, I don't think this level and type of thought provocation is very suitable for RPG video games in general.  Player's become too attached to their individual characters, and some people, like lakus, were genuinely "hurt" by those endings.  All of that are valid experiences... that, ironically, in line with Javik's cosmic imperative, have changed us.

 

In a book or in a movie, where the reader is more emotionally distant from the character, it can work if done well (... and, in ME3, you also have the issue in that it was not done particularly well).  I think they "bit off more than they could chew."  The whole series was about "touching" on a wide variety of societal issues... asking the questions, but specifically not answering them... not the least of which was "Is a lasting peace even achievable after generations upon generations of intermittent war?"

[In Exile]

I'm not fan-wanking it and I perfectly accept, not just In Exile's criticisms... but everyone's.  It would be stupid to say that ME3's endings were "good" when they were, undoubtedly "bad" in a lot of different ways.  I'm just saying that, they can be considered strong from a very specific POV - they have made us all "think" about them for 4 years.  However, I don't think this level and type of thought provocation is very suitable for RPG video games in general.  Player's become too attached to their individual characters, and some people, like lakus, were genuinely "hurt" by those endings.  All of that are valid experiences... that, ironically, in line with Javik's cosmic imperative, have changed us.

 

In a book or in a movie, where the reader is more emotionally distant from the character, it can work if done well (... and, in ME3, you also have the issue in that it was not done particularly well).  I think they "bit off more than they could chew."  The whole series was about "touching" on a wide variety of societal issues... asking the questions, but specifically not answering them... not the least of which was "Is a lasting peace even achievable after generations upon generations of intermittent war?"

 

They didn't really make us "think". They've made us endlessly discuss how stupid they are from different perspectives. But a discussion predicated on "every one of your ideas is stupid, thematically inconsistent, morally offensive, and nonsensical even by the isolated internal logic in the short vignette you call an ending" is not exactly "thinking". 

[UpUpAway]

They didn't really make us "think". They've made us endlessly discuss how stupid they are from different perspectives. But a discussion predicated on "every one of your ideas is stupid, thematically inconsistent, morally offensive, and nonsensical even by the isolated internal logic in the short vignette you call an ending" is not exactly "thinking". 

 

No need to insult me... my experience is as valid as yours... and I've acknowledged that your experience is valid.  There are several indications of people "thinking" about these endings on many different levels... and I did also acknowledge that, although Bioware attempted the sort of ending designed to leave people with a load of unanswered questions... it was "not particularly well done."

[CronoDragoon]

We'll have to agree to disagree. ME3 abandoned not just themes of the series but the themes of the actual game they developed. The organic vs. synthetic nonsense being the most fundamental betrayal of a series that up to that point tried to take a very cynical look on intergroup relationships (e.g. the salarians want to perpetuate the genophage).

 

I don't know why we're talking about the endings when I said "up to the ending." RoboticWater said that the entirety of ME3's plot is a gross thematic departure, which is so far from how I see the series that I don't think either of us is interested in debating it.

 

As for the supposed "cynical" view of interspecies relationships, that's only partly true. As per storytelling guidelines, the backstory and lead-up is cynical...until it suddenly isn't. The galaxy doesn't trust humans...until they suddenly do (ME1). The rachni are genocidal killers...until they suddenly aren't and you can let them go. Organics and synthetics are war adversaries first and foremost...until they suddenly aren't in ME2. You'll lose some people in the Suicide Mission...until you don't lose anyone. ME3's genophage and Rannoch arcs are simply a continuation of this. The lore is only cynical insofar as it provides the player the opportunity to overcome that cynicism in order to feel heroic (or not if you for example decide to do Renegade for genophage). Even the Salarians end up lending you support anyway, and it's only the Dalatrass that really stands in opposition to a Paragon Shepard.

 

Synthesis is its own crap and I'm not interested in debating it, which is why I didn't.