If the cutscene analogy is hard to follow, then think of it as rewinding a video instead. The key is that she did go outside. That actually happened. And then it un-happened, from the perspective of the people in Redcliffe. The un-happening didn't happen outside of Redcliffe, however.
That still doesn't really make sense. How can something still happen if the even that caused it no longer did? It means cause and effect have no meaning in the timeline.
The problem with theories such as this is that is not how it is explained in game. There is no suggestion that the Fiona we meet is not the real Fiona. The reason she is "confused" is that Alexius has messed with time. The whole plot would be a lot simple if it had just been someone/a demon impersonating Fiona or Alexius had muddled her mind with blood magic but the writers went with "time magic" as the explanation, thus causing a whole lot of confusion and argument because of the difficulties that it presents.
That's because you're looking at it as a single timeline. It's two different timelines, one inside Redcliffe, and one outside Redcliffe.That still doesn't really make sense. How can something still happen if the even that caused it no longer did? It means cause and effect have no meaning in the timeline.
That's because you're looking at it as a single timeline. It's two different timelines, one inside Redcliffe, and one outside Redcliffe.
How does time know if it's inside Redcliffe or outside of it? It's time.
Time doesn't need to know anything. Alexius' spell has limited range.How does time know if it's inside Redcliffe or outside of it? It's time.
How come when he sends us forward in time, we don't end up in the throne room? Did he send those guards through with us? Why is the dungeon locked when they should have been no one in there until we arrived? If Alexius has been repeatedly resetting time since we were projected forward, how is it possible to get any sort of fix on a point in the past to which we can return? (Okay that's more than two questions but they are all on the same topic of the future time)
The travel to the future part is, as I noted previously, way more wontzy than the Fiona stuff. Alexius doesn't simply change time's flow like he did before, he actually opens up a hole with the intent of tossing the Herald outside time completely. At that point, the Herald was lucky to get to re-enter the fabric of space and time at all, I suppose. But yeah, I've no particularly satisfying answers for this part.
That's because you're looking at it as a single timeline. It's two different timelines, one inside Redcliffe, and one outside Redcliffe.
But they're two timelines that exist in the same space. That's why I don't really think it makes sense that the events of one don't affect the other.
Alexius time travel magic, due to being fueld by the breach, is literally unraveling the very fabric of reality itself. You are all right in the fact that it could under normal circumstances never exist. But the circumstances aren't normal anymore. He is ripping normal reality to shreds with his time magic which results in various things that can't logically happen but do anyways because natural laws start to loose meaning.
The problem is that you're seeing time as linear cause and effect. I drop the glass, the glass breaks.
But cause and effect have no meaning in the Fade. Objects and places do not exist independently of the entity that created them. I drop the glass, the glass no longer exists.
Time flows similarly in the Fade because time is meaningless in a dream. Spirits unable to discern past from future. A spirit might warn a mage of an impending assassination attempt that happened two months earlier.
Alexius' time bubble is ONLY possible because of the Breach. It not only fuels his magic, but is collapsing reality itself, making it possible for two incongruent timelines to exist at the same time.
Thedas doesn't exist in the Fade yet. Cause and Effect should still exist in Redcliffe.
The producer of "Back to the Future" said the secret to a good time machine story is to remember that time travel is always the problem, never the solution.
Seriously, if Alexius has TIME TRAVEL... and he uses it to get to a place before someone else does? Go back to the First Blight and stop Tevinter from falling in the first place! Go kill baby Andraste in her crib. Go into the future where someone has invented a cure for Blight sickness and bring it back with you. Go to the day your family was attacked and stop it from happening!
Seriously. A time machine is wasted on this guy. Bad show, Alexius. Bad show.
Except of course that Alexius doesn't seem to have worked out the trick of setting a destination or going very far. That's ignoring the fact that he hasn't really figured out how make his changes stick. The Inquisitor and co were unaffected by the historical change. That implies that in the "dark future" if the Inquisitor and co had just made a run for it and made it a mile or so away from Redcliffe, they would have found themselves back in the "present" Really the thing's nothing more than an elaborate illusion.
Thedas doesn't exist in the Fade yet.
I'm just gonna save us a bunch of time and just put this here.
https://forum.biowar...3#entry20178039
1) He can't travel to before the Breach occurred. So he can't prevent the explosion or his son becoming corrupted.
2) Time magic IS dangerous. It created those unusual Rifts around Redcliffe. Using time travel to manufacture mooks would be unwise.
This really can't be emphasized enough, particularly about the Breach. It is explained directly in the game why the time travel is so limited. In the future, Alexius tells us that he tried to go back over and over again, but without success. The limited influence and changes we see are pretty much all he can do given the short time frame of the existence of the Breach up to that point.
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According to WoT, Alexius was already researching the time magic (along with Dorian) as a way to prevent Felix's caravan from getting attacked.
What I'm most interested in is the order of events relating to his recruitment into the Venatori and the following discovery that the time magic does in fact work. From dialogue, and Dorian's description of Alexius's values, we can assume that the ONLY reason Alexius went along with everything is because "the Elder One promised" that there was a way to cure Felix. That really seems to be his only goal. So, they took advantage of a high-ranking magister's desperation and recruited him into the Venatori to do Corypheus's bidding. That's all clear to me.
What I'm unclear on is when the time magic comes into play. Was he recruited before the Breach happened, or after? Was the fact of his already having worked on time magic just a happy coincidence and he was only targeted by the Venatori because of his rank and desperation? Did he just attempt to use it in Redcliffe as continued experimentation, but was finally successful because of the Breach?
Modifié par nightscrawl, 10 juillet 2016 - 12:30 .
That is one of those areas where there is really no consistency in what they say happened. Dorian travelled south following Alexius and Felix because he had already been invited by Alexius to join him in the Venatori. Dorian suspects this has to do with Felix. He is correct about this. So it would seem that someone, whether Corypheaus personally, Calpernia or an unidentified individual recruited Alexius on the promise they could do something about Felix's condition. This would have been long before the Conclave as they had to travel down south and although Alexius arrived after the Breach had occurred, it couldn't have been that long after. There is no way he could have been recruited in Tevinter after the Breach had occurred and made his way south in time to intervene when he did, particularly considering he only discovered he was even able to make his time magic work when in proximity to the Breach.
Which begs the questions, why did Corypheus recruit him in the first place? I think it may have been because Alexius and his wife had been both concentrating on studies to do with the Fade and the Veil. Since Livia was dead, the only person with knowledge of her research would be Alexius. There had apparently been rumours in the Magisterium they were close to a breakthrough even before Felix was hurt. That may have had nothing to do with the time magic aspect because Dorian confirms they were still meeting a dead end where that was concerned when he was still working with Alexius. May be it was something about the Fade and the Veil generally where they were close to a major breakthrough. Now that would interest Corypheus. So he recruits Alexius to the Venatori and they travel south to be in the general area of Redcliffe during the Conclave. Alexius keeps on trying to make his time magic work and suddenly finds it does. So now Corypheus has a new reason to want to keep Alexius on side. The only thing I wonder about is why Alexius needed the mages at all? Surely if the all important thing was turning back time for both himself and Corypheus then that should have been his focus and since it only seemed limited in the area of its operation, surely he needed to be nearer to the Breach itself so he could turn back time where Corypheus had actually lost the orb, not several miles away? What did Corypheus need the mages for? He was planning on having a demon army. There are any number of other ways they could have trapped the Inquisitor other than using the mages. It seemed an unnecessary distraction for them both.
Which begs the questions, why did Corypheus recruit him in the first place?
Why not? He's a powerful magister with considerable influence and manpower at his hands and is willing to help Corypheus for nothing more than the promise of curing Felix if Alexius serves Corypheus well. I don't think Corypheus needs any super specific reason to recruit him in the first place.
What did Corypheus need the mages for? He was planning on having a demon army.
Same with the mages really. Sure he doesn't need the mages for anything crucial, but if you plan to conquer the world and can easily get a few hundred mages for your army, why should you not do it? Plus this also prevents them from joining your enemies and fighting against you in your coming conquest, which is what happens if you save them.
Alexius formerly had influence but he had all but shut himself away from the outside world in his desperation to cure Felix. This was down in the family estate in Asariel so basically he was out of circulation. Which is why I ask what brought him to the attention of Corypheus?
Of course there are big inconsistencies in the timeline for Alexius in World of Thedas 2 from what Dorian recounts and the codex on him in game, and the history given for Alexius himself. In game Alexius was still meant to be addressing the Magisterium about the lack of funding for the Circles in 9:39, which would put the attack on Felix during that year, since all sources agree he lost interest in anything else after Felix was hurt. In Alexius' entry in WoT2 it has the attack occurring in 9:38 and in the entry on Dorian closer to 9:35. In both cases, Alexius drops everything to concentrate on curing Felix. So the game timeline still had Alexius in Minrathous in 9:39 and on the political radar where he might come to the attention of Corypheus. The entries in WoT2 have him out of circulation as far back as 9:35 and no later than 9:38. In Dorian's entry Alexius disappears from all contact for 2 years before he finally contacts Dorian. This entry also confirms that Alexius only gave his allegiance to the Venatori on the promise to cure his son.
As for the mages, I can see why getting a few hundred mages on side might be useful but not in the context of Alexius leading them. Send Calpernia to recruit the mages. If the time magic was needed for this, then use it and then leave her to it while Alexius moves on to use his time magic elsewhere. Corypheus wanted time taken back to just before he lost the orb. If we are having the time paradox explained in it only being applicable with a localised area, then Alexius staying in Redcliffe was pointless to the main aim in using his time magic since he needed to be up at the site of the Conclave for it to work.
Actually I've just realised that the time bubble doesn't really explain what was going on, since Alexius was not just trying to wind back time for Corypheus but also for Felix. If the regression only occurred in Redcliffe, then even if he returned to before the Concalve or the attack, this would only apply in Redcliffe, not anywhere else and so would be pointless in what he was trying to achieve. Alexius seemed to think that if he reset time in Redcliffe then that would apply everywhere, so apparently he didn't understand how his own magic was working.
Which is why I ask what brought him to the attention of Corypheus?
Just one potential scenario:
1. Corypheus arrives in Tevinter and starts forming his Venatori cult.
2. Some of his newly recruited Tevinter supporters says something along the lines of: "You know what, I know a guy named Alexius. He also wanted to make Tevinter great again. I used to do magic business with him two years ago and he was really competent. He isn't really involved in anything anymore since his son caught the Darkspawn blight. A shame really."
3. Corypheus thinks: "Hmm, how can I capitalize on this. Oh I could try to recruit him by promising him I can cure his son."
4. He does just that.
5. Alexuis joins him.
Really, this isn't something that needs a extremely detailed explanation.
If the time magic was needed for this, then use it and then leave her to it while Alexius moves on to use his time magic elsewhere.
But thats exactly what Alexuis does if you don't go to Redcliffe. He recruits the mages with time travel and then gives them over to Calpernia who leads them during the attack on Haven. And if you do go to Redcliffe he needs to stay there because the plan is to lure you in a trap and erease you from existance with his time magic.
Corypheus wanted time taken back to just before he lost the orb. If we are having the time paradox explained in it only being applicable with a localised area, then Alexius staying in Redcliffe was pointless to the main aim in using his time magic since he needed to be up at the site of the Conclave for it to work.
It's not like Alexuis can just casually stroll up to the site of the Conclave and conduct time magic experiments there, since the Inquisition troops actively guard the site. That would require Corypheus to use his army, which at this point would only consists of the Venatori themselves, to clear the area first.
Actually we discover that not long after our disappearance the Venatori wiped out the fledgling Inquisition, so no opposition there to going up to the site of the Conclave. I got the impression that he didn't actually want to erase you from time originally, that is just what he tried to do when he was desperate after your spies had infiltrated and killed his guards. Only Dorian seemed to be aware that is what he had been trying to achieve. He clearly hadn't admitted as much to the Venatori because they were still asking Leliana if she knew where the Herald was. Pretty stupid if Alexius had already told them he'd removed them from time altogether. Not that he would want to admit that because Corypheus would have been really upset. The moment you disappeared there seemed no logical reason for Alexius to remain in Redcliffe but to go nearer to the Breach. May be he did at first but by the time we arrive he had retreated back to the castle because he wanted to lock himself in.
The purpose of luring you to Redcliffe was to capture you so that Corypheus could recover his anchor from you. Alternatively Corypheus wanted him to return in time to the point before the explosion, so you never got the anchor in the first place, which as I say would require him being nearer to the site.
As for Corypheus recruiting Alexius, the sentiments Alexius had previously expressed were not the same as those of the Venatori, as Dorian reminds him. So there would have needed to be something more enticing than simply "he's got the best interests of Tevinter at heart". Knowing that Alexius had abandoned all his interests and studies because of his sick son would not be the best recommendation. That simply shows an emotional weakness that his other major players do not seem to suffer from. There had to be something definite that would be of interest to him for him to think it worth his while. It may be that he did go to the family estate initially just to try and acquire the research notes that Alexius and Livia had amassed over the years and that is how he actually met Alexius and decided to recruit him.
1) He can't travel to before the Breach occurred. So he can't prevent the explosion or his son becoming corrupted.
2) Time magic IS dangerous. It created those unusual Rifts around Redcliffe. Using time travel to manufacture mooks would be unwise.
I got the impression that he didn't actually want to erase you from time originally, that is just what he tried to do when he was desperate after your spies had infiltrated and killed his guards. Only Dorian seemed to be aware that is what he had been trying to achieve. He clearly hadn't admitted as much to the Venatori because they were still asking Leliana if she knew where the Herald was.
I do think removing you from existence was the end goal of the trap, since "You never existing->You not being at the concalve-> Corypheus gets anchor". And the Venatori ask for your whereabouts because Alexius knows he botched the spell and is fully expecting you to return at some point. He even says so in the final confrontation with you: "I knew you would appear again. Not that it would be now, but i knew you would return." (somewhat paraphrased)
You know he had messed around with time so much by the end of that year it is surprising he has any clear idea what is meant to happen. Erasing you from time seems an even bigger concept to swallow than limiting it to one area. So he erases you in that timeline in Redcliffe. However, he then has to wind time back to before the Conclave. Even assuming he could do this, the you that existed outside of his time bubble will still be there because he has gone back into the past. Of course, even assuming he could remove you from time, might it not be better to wait until he knew he could rewind time far enough? Corypheus wanted the anchor and once you had gone with it, that was impossible if he couldn't rewind. No wonder Corypheus was so p****d with him.
It's hard for me to buy that Alexius's time magic was location based because in 'In Hushed Whispers' the magic affected the entire world. How can it be both location based and not at the same time? And how can that spell remove the IQ from existence to the point where it creates a future where Cory wins? The only way the IQ can be removed from existence is by not being born, or if he was killed at the Conclave explosion. It would make sense to simply use the magic to go back in time to just after the explosion and kill the IQ who is already weakened and confused. Then Cory would have the anchor and therefore would accomplish his goal. It makes no sense for the IQ to be zapped to a future where Cory wins while the IQ still has the anchor. But he just...vanishes without a trace and is considered gone for x amount of years??
The time travel story would have made a bit more sense if in the "In Hushed Whispers" timeline the IQ was killed sometime after the tutorial section. That way Cass, Leliana, Varric, and Solas would know who the IQ is and think he was that guy who had the anchor and got killed before they could do anything about it, And it's them the IQ and Dorian meet. And when they return to the present, it's simply back to their old timeline. or make it more interesting by having them stuck in that darker future.
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