168 réponses à ce sujet

[straykat]

This whole idea of big choices and changes is kind of a double edged sword. There's an immediate rush from the initial idea, but it can't be done justice in the longterm. It gives the setting a limited lifespan, compared to some other big fantasy settings. Same went for Mass Effect. It's more like watching a movie trilogy or mini series.

 

edit: As for elves, I don't think they'll neglect them. Something big will happen in one way or another. But we won't play through it, once all is said and done.

[Xilizhra]

But it's not reality. Bioware is not saying "eff you real life minorities" by having continued conflict with the elves. The dwarves are literally dying out and being slaughtered by darkspawn every day but I'm not personally offended by that despite the fact that entire cultures, IRL, have been callously wiped off the map before.

And I have absolutely no desire for this to continue. Do you think I shouldn't be angry if they continue to exploit the ruination of my preferred race?

[straykat]

And I have absolutely no desire for this to continue. Do you think I shouldn't be angry if they continue to exploit the ruination of my preferred race?

 

I think you're being a bit bleak. They won't be ruined.

 

One aspect of them might... but something good will happen, I think.

 

We probably disagree on more than a few things, but just believe me for a sec...

[Steelcan]

And I have absolutely no desire for this to continue. Do you think I shouldn't be angry if they continue to exploit the ruination of my preferred race?

you don't think that there's a certain limit to the extent you should be angry over a fictional race?

[vertigomez]

And I have absolutely no desire for this to continue. Do you think I shouldn't be angry if they continue to exploit the ruination of my preferred race?

You can feel whatever you want.

As for "ruination" all I'm saying is that if Orzammar is wiped out by darkspawn or the dwarves become part of the Titan hivemind or whatever, I'll think "Ooh, storytelling" not "Bioware hates dwarves and the devs should be fired."

[Steelcan]

You can feel whatever you want.

As for "ruination" all I'm saying is that if Orzammar is wiped out by darkspawn or the dwarves become part of the Titan hivemind or whatever, I'll think "Ooh, storytelling" not "Bioware hates dwarves and the devs should be fired."

well clearly you've been going about this the wrong way

[Xilizhra]

you don't think that there's a certain limit to the extent you should be angry over a fictional race?

Wishing wrath upon them is pretty low on the "angry" scale. I haven't even advanced to burning them in effigy yet.

[LobselVith8]

Wtf?

Should we also boycott the company because there are poor people and casteless are considered non-people and qunari are regularly compared to beasts?

It's fiction. I don't understand this righteous indignation on behalf of a race that does not exist.

If you don't find the stories they tell entertaining anymore, I think it's as simple as simply leaving the franchise. If you feel like freeing the mages doesn't matter because Vivienne creates a Circle no matter what, or because your efforts continually get paved over, then I don't see what's so hard to understand.

[TheKomandorShepard]

This whole idea of big choices and changes is kind of a double edged sword. There's an immediate rush from the initial idea, but it can't be done justice in the longterm. It gives the setting a limited lifespan, compared to some other big fantasy settings. Same went for Mass Effect. It's more like watching a movie trilogy or mini series.

 

edit: As for elves, I don't think they'll neglect them. Something big will happen in one way or another. But we won't play through it, once all is said and done.

Mass Effect did much better job when it comes to importing choices than Dragon age.In Mass Effect choices had at least some impact on the next games, in contrast to dragon age where your choices at best are only cosmetic difference while in most cases they irrelevant or brought up to the same outcome.

 

To be honest they should just give up on import in this series it is pretty much meaningless while they just keep wasting time and resources on it.

[straykat]

I don't think it's bioware's style to do that in the first place.

 

 

If this was TES, then yes. The creator of a lot of their lore outright said the Thalmor would eventually win.

[LobselVith8]

You can feel whatever you want.

As for "ruination" all I'm saying is that if Orzammar is wiped out by darkspawn or the dwarves become part of the Titan hivemind or whatever, I'll think "Ooh, storytelling" not "Bioware hates dwarves and the devs should be fired."

But if you're a fan of that fictional group and you don't like the path the story is taking with them, I'd say it's completely rational to simply wash your hands of the series.

[Steelcan]

I don't think it's bioware's style to do that in the first place.

 

 

If this was TES, then yes. The creator of a lot of their lore outright said the Thalmor would eventually win.

TES lore is such a ridiculously complicated web that an outright Thalmor victory would very likely just usher in some golden age for the Empire at some point.

 

Or we find that Numidium again.....

[Steelcan]

Wishing wrath upon them is pretty low on the "angry" scale. I haven't even advanced to burning them in effigy yet.

I'm getting curious as to how many franchises and series this extends to, did Tolkien leave too much unfinished with the departure of the Noldor and Silvan elves?  Should 343i be damned for going a wonky direction with the forerunners? 

[LobselVith8]

I don't think it's bioware's style to do that in the first place.


If this was TES, then yes. The creator of a lot of their lore outright said the Thalmor would eventually win.

Which would necessitate the end of that plane of Mundus and the beginning of a new one. And a likely realignment of the Aedra and the Daedra. That isn't likely to happen for some time.

[vertigomez]

But if you're a fan of that fictional group and you don't like the path the story is taking with them, I'd say it's completely rational to simply wash your hands of the series.

We're not talking about leaving the series, though. We're talking about accusing Bioware's employees of having some kind of anti-elf agenda.

[Steelcan]

Which would necessitate the end of that plane of Mundus and the beginning of a new one. And a likely realignment of the Aedra and the Daedra. That isn't likely to happen for some time.

see like I said, ridiculously complicated

[Xilizhra]

I'm getting curious as to how many franchises and series this extends to, did Tolkien leave too much unfinished with the departure of the Noldor and Silvan elves?  Should 343i be damned for going a wonky direction with the forerunners? 

I don't do Tolkien, and I'm not sure the other thing is.

 

 

We're not talking about leaving the series, though. We're talking about accusing Bioware's employees of having some kind of anti-elf agenda.

Thus far, we don't know whether they do or not. We'll see in the next game, I think.

[straykat]

We're not talking about leaving the series, though. We're talking about accusing Bioware's employees of having some kind of anti-elf agenda.

 

Yeah, I don't see it. I see anti elfyness though. That's not exactly the same as anti-elf.

 

But they're positive when it comes to coexistence. I get the feeling that Shartan and Andraste is seen as a good moment in their history. And the two dead lovers before the war of the dales a tragedy. 

 

Anyone who wants to be different than this is probably going to be disappointed. People on the extremes... like hardcore human only types and elfy elves.

[Xilizhra]

Yeah, I don't see it. I see anti elfyness though.

 

But they're positive when it comes to coexistence. I get the feeling that Shartan and Andraste is seen as a good moment in their history. And the two dead lovers before the war of the dales a tragedy. 

 

Anyone who wants to be different than this is probably going to be disappointed. People on the extremes... like hardcore human only types and elfy elves.

Coexistence? Do you mean submission and assimilation? That's the most positive thing the Chantry ever stood for.

[Steelcan]

Coexistence? Do you mean submission and assimilation? That's the most positive thing the Chantry ever stood for.

and its better than the alternative, the devs pretty clearly don't want an elven homeland to last

[straykat]

Coexistence? Do you mean submission and assimilation? That's the most positive thing the Chantry ever stood for.

 

What are you even talking about? I said Andraste. She was a barbarian slave waging war against the imperium. If that isn't positive to you, then whatever. I don't even know why you bother playing as it is, if you see shadows and sinister behavior to this extent.

[Xilizhra]

and its better than the alternative, the devs pretty clearly don't want an elven homeland to last

If so, therein lies their anti-elven agenda.

 

 

What are you even talking about? I said Andraste. She was a barbarian slave waging war against the imperium. If that isn't positive to you, then whatever. I don't even know why you bother playing as it is, if you see shadows and sinister behavior to this extent.

Actually, I deliberately try to be optimistic. I don't think that the fourth game will actually be bad for elves, I'm just saying what my reaction would be if it is.

[LobselVith8]

Coexistence? Do you mean submission and assimilation? That's the most positive thing the Chantry ever stood for.

 

Admittedly, the Dalish clans being criminals because of their religion and the Andrastian elves being subject to purges (like the one in Denerim that wiped out an orphanage) isn't exactly holding much promise for the elves in the status quo. It's completely understandable to feel like there's little point in sticking with a series if your choices are continually overturned and the developers seem to be heading in a direction that you simply don't care for. Games are supposed to be about entertainment, after all. If the story doesn't entertain you, there's no reason to stick with it.

[straykat]

Admittedly, the Dalish clans being criminals because of their religion and the Andrastian elves being subject to purges (like the one in Denerim that wiped out an orphanage) isn't exactly holding much promise for the elves in the status quo. It's completely understandable to feel like there's little point in sticking with a series if your choices are continually overturned and the developers seem to be heading in a direction that you simply don't care for. Games are supposed to be about entertainment, after all. If the story doesn't entertain you, there's no reason to stick with it.

 

That's a little more sensible. That you're keeping in mind it's entertainment.

 

I mean, don't go hurting Bioware employees or anything. That's all I ask

[sandalisthemaker]

 

 I have no doubt he has a use for all these elves who are flocking to him but I'm really worried about what that might entail for them.   At best they are simply going to be canon fodder in the next game for our PC.   However, what if he was to convince them that mass suicide would bring down the Veil and restore them to what they once were?   It is a theoretical possibility since death on a large scale does weaken the Veil and of course if elves were originally spirits, then he would be telling them the truth because they would be put back to their original state.    Whatever the case, I don't think anything good is going to happen to modern elves as a result of his plans and I'm really not that bothered any more about his ancient buddies.

 

Woah.  I had not considered this.  That would make the parallel between Solas and Cory even stronger, what with the whole Claw of Dumat sacrifice thing.   I personally have my doubts about anything good happening to the elves who follow Solas.  Perhaps, if the player is inclined, they can convince some of the elves to defect before it's too late.