23 odpowiedzi w tym temacie

[animedreamer]

Before anyone says, "They have Dragon Age, so they don't need Dungeons and Dragons." That's like saying, We have tap water, why drink filtered? They are two different things, with some similarities.

 

 

I don't know if people can see the general difference between the two and at this point to be honest, I don't care if they can or can't. All I know is that BioWare once upon a time, not only wrote but to this day created the best adaption of any D&D product. Very few people will argue this. I've played every recent history D&D game that came out with the label, "Neverwinter," The MMO based supposedly on 4e (it really really isn't but it does borrow enough of the naming conventions and terms and funnily enough color coded systems that it can easily fool people into believing it is.), D&D Online which is the last game to use 3rd edition rulesets though that term can be applied loosely here, and Sword Coast Legends which was the biggest flop in D&D history right up there with Daggerdale.

 

What would be so different between a BioWare created D&D Game and Dragon Age?

 

Well aside from the total different world/setting the two take place in, (assuming the default world they would use for D&D would be the Forgotten Realms) There is what the two games seem to work best at. Dragon Age works best as a player driven story (I think it's really what keeps most of us die hard fans playing), I don't know if that's the best way to put it, but it definitely seems close to it. The DA Games always play differently from one to the next with no definitive style that makes it a instantly recognizable brand, example Final Fantasy 1 - 7 had a instantly identifiable battle system that was as iconic as the title itself. Whereas D&D assuming we are talking about one edition and not the entire catalogues of versions of the game, sticks to one style that is uniquely theirs and has endeared itself to fans for years.

 

In short, DA is for the story (so far always overarching and intertwined from one game to the next.) whereas D&D scratches that meta game itch, that part of you that yearns to fumble through several different tomes, and decide on a character that is wholefully unique each and every time you play, whether because your multiclassing, playing a unique race, and picking a different prestige class and so on. DnD is for the mechanics of modern RPG's for those who can dream up a concept but can't see it realized in most Modern RPG's because of the limited material being given. 

 

How would you like them to handle such a thing?

 

Pick a core system for DnD (3.x, or 4th, or 5tth) and stay true 100% to that system and just periodically add new material to it. Doesn't have to be huge Triple A undertakings so long as the core game play is something engaging, true to the source material, and yet interesting enough for newcomers to get into with a bit of reading. It doesn't have to take away from Dragon Age, as once the core game itself is done you'd need only update it with new materials for people to buy and download since the games and their theoretical expansions will continue to use same core system over and over again.

[straykat]

I think they intentionally wanted to get away from D&D.. just like with Star Wars. Hence Mass Effect and Dragon Age.

 

It'd be nice if more D&D games were made though... and by someone with triple A backing like Bioware. DA is cool, but I can't help think of it as more Finite.. it feels limited to epic events and the world is getting smaller because of it. That and it seems like the factions were created with the express purpose of changing them or revolutionizing things. By the time it's done, there won't be much to see... because we can't actually live with the consequences of global change. It's impossible to make followups. D&D is a world I can get lost in for longer. 

[Tchos]

To me the biggest problem is the lack of consistency.  When 4th edition came out, they didn't want anyone making 3.5 video games anymore, which sucks for me because that's the version I want my games to use.  I remember an interview on the Neverwinter Nights Podcast with a representative from Cryptic about the yet to be released Neverwinter Online, and the interviewer asked what edition of the rules they would be using, and the representative said, "It will be 4th edition!" in a tone that both invited no dissent and also implied that this is what gamers were hoping to hear (though of course it was only a semblance of 4th edition).  That, combined with the fact that Sword Coast Legends was styled after 5th edition rules, confirmed to me that there would never be any more official 3.5e video games.  So I essentially don't care what they come out with.  I'm more likely to see a video game with the ruleset I want from Pathfinder, which uses 3.5e+ and isn't insisting on completely redesigning its rules every few years.

 

Even beyond that, though, they're even less likely to come out with a turn-based D&D game anymore, which is what I strongly prefer and what the 3.5 rules are designed around.

 

At any rate, with all of the extant rulesets and the different preferences amongst gamers, I doubt there can be a consensus on what the quintessential D&D video game would be.

[andysks]

I sometimes think the problem is WotC. Allowing a game like SCL to come out to promote the new edition of the game is an extremely bad marketing decision. Almost as if they don't play the games themselves or like they don't have any control over the developers. I'm certain the developers wanted to do good. They actually tried doing numerous Q&A with the players and so on but the end result was a disaster. So it makes me wonder if WotC even cares for the cRPG part anymore, or are they just selling licenses around to whoever is willing to take it. 

 

Now when it comes to Bioware, they probably don't care anymore. They'd rather make games like Inquisition which was only a slight improvement of the 2nd. One can see the targeted audience when playing their last games and I'm afraid it's not people who enjoyed the old D&D titles.

 

My hope, as Tchos said, is that Obsidian co-operates well with the Pathfinder developers in order to make a 3.5 cRPG. From what I read a while ago, it is a plan. They have already done some kind of Android game with Pathfinder rules and I wouldn't be surprised if after Tyranny a Pathfinder title would come.

[cJohnOne]

I doubt a D&D made by bioWare would be any good because of EA interference.  And the company has moved on.

[-Semper-]

Before anyone says, "They have Dragon Age, so they don't need Dungeons and Dragons." That's like saying, We have tap water, why drink filtered? They are two different things, with some similarities. [...] All I know is that BioWare once upon a time, not only wrote but to this day created the best adaption of any D&D product. Very few people will argue this.

that's wrong. the best adaption of a d&d product was created by troika: temple of elemental evil. with baldur's gate bioware created good single player d&d based crpgs, but no faithful adaptions. nwn1 was the best adaption of a pnp round within a closed gaming environment. its single player was not only lacking in story, but also in party play. the whole henchmen system is a bad joke and way too far distanced from any resemblence of a d&d adventure group.

 

obsidian's nwn2 is truer to the d&d experience in single player, but not that easy and flexible in multiplayer adventures. there nwn1 still shines.

 

@bioware: they already said that they will never go back to working with licensed properties again, at least wizards is off the book. if at all they only will take their chances with star wars.

[rjshae]

I'm hoping the Obsidian-Pathfinder deal will pan out and provide us some D&D-like RPGs. It remains to be seen though; Obsidian has been pretty busy with their own IP.

[Tchos]

I had actually forgotten about a Pathfinder computer game being possibly in the works.  That would be nice.

 

I agree with Semper, BTW.  ToEE was the most faithful computer game adaptation of D&D ever made, in any edition.

[animedreamer]

I had actually forgotten about a Pathfinder computer game being possibly in the works.  That would be nice.

 

I wouldn't go holding your breath, as from what has been shown, they are mostly looking to cash in off the name as well by churning out a MMO that really has nothing but the flavor text from the pnp game going for it, similar to what DnD Online is to DnD PnP. They aren't really answering anything revolving around the mechanics and how they relate to the PnP game, but they are quick to point out whatever they believe may hold your interest from the game, like what MIGHT be cross-classing, or "specializations" where in which you can play a farmer, shop keeper, miner and so on. As great innovative and true to form Pathfinder elements. Sorry but none of that sounds like the CRPG any of us want. Maybe later on down the line, but right now they are focusing on quick cash grabs as well.

[Tchos]

I knew about and wasn't interested in the MMO.  There's no single player Pathfinder computer game under discussion?

[animedreamer]

I knew about and wasn't interested in the MMO.  There's no single player Pathfinder computer game under discussion?

Only thing they've released anything about was the MMO and the Card Game, the later having been released already.

[AlanC9]

that's wrong. the best adaption of a d&d product was created by troika: temple of elemental evil. with baldur's gate bioware created good single player d&d based crpgs, but no faithful adaptions.

Well, in the IE games Bio did about as well with AD&D/2nd Ed. as can be expected. Real-time with pause is the best way to handle the initiative system; while theoretically you could pre-plot everything, in practice this would have led to too many ambiguous situations for a computer DM to resolve (it's not all that easy for a human to adjudicate, even). And I'll put Bio's unpatched bug list against Troika's any day.

[Serillen]

From what I understand Beamdog currently has a license to do new DnD games and there are more than a few ex-Bioware members there now so its kind of like Bioware making a new DnD game.

[animedreamer]

From what I understand Beamdog currently has a license to do new DnD games and there are more than a few ex-Bioware members there now so its kind of like Bioware making a new DnD game.

Well that might be good news, here's to hoping.

[Arkalezth]

Excuse the slight derail, but what's wrong with Sword Coast Legends? Just curious, as I haven't played or heard much about it.

 

Speaking of which, something I'd like to see, for a change, is a Forgotten Realms game that does NOT take place in the Sword Coast. By Bioware or a different company, I don't really care. I love both Baldur's Gate games, but I think they're overrated in some aspects (at least the first one), and if a new game is gonna turn out like Inquisition in Faerun, I'd rather someone else develop it.

[andysks]

Excuse the slight derail, but what's wrong with Sword Coast Legends? Just curious, as I haven't played or heard much about it.

I played SCL the moment it came out... which was not too long ago and if you ask me anything about the story I cannot tell you. Just unremarkable. Laggy (at least on my end) which does not add up to the graphics and all in all filled with cliches. The things I remember from gameplay, was that we had no feats... in the D&D way but rather skill trees. Kinda like the talents in WoW. There was also cooldown on spells(?) correct me if I'm wrong. Basically no classic spellbook mechanisms.

 

I don't know if these things are D&D next rules, or if they were specific only to SCL.

 

Plenty of people expected a nice editor as well and I heard it was a huge disappointment since the editor didn't really allow branching dialogues, complicated quest lines and generally one was only able to randomly generate a dungeon. No tile building like we do here. The last I haven't experienced myself since modding for NWN2 does not allow time to experience with other stuff.

[Tchos]

I haven't played SCL yet, and missed my chance to try it during a free promo due to a lack of hard drive space, but my impression of it remains the same as it was when I first saw previews of it.  It looks like a Dragon Age: Origins style game, which I should enjoy because I enjoyed Dragon Age: Origins.  As long as I don't expect it to play with D&D rules, it should be fine.  I'm not really interested in its toolset.  I'd just like to play it.

 

But I did mention when I first heard of it that I wished it had taken place anywhere other than the Sword Coast.

[andysks]

I forgot to mention this before so here it goes now. If any of you remembers a while ago there was a German indie company developing an OGL game called Chaos Chronicles. Long story short, dispute between devs and publishers and the game never got finished. Apparently, there is now a Colombian Portuguese company which might have acquired some content and continues developing a game called Demons Age. This... continuing is unofficial, since they never said anything about it and perhaps not even the same game but some screenshots look rather same with Chaos Chronicles. Maybe they acquired the game engine with some areas and concept only. I don't normally like reading RPG Codex, but this is where it was pointed out.

 

http://www.rpgcodex....onicles.101777/

 

Anyway, Q1 2016 they say it should have been released. So perhaps soon enough it will be available.

 

http://www.bigmoonst...demons-age.html

[Tchos]

I was greatly looking forward to Chaos Chronicles at the time, following their blog posts and all.  I don't remember them talking much about story, but the mechanics they talked about were what I wanted.  This "Demons Age" you mention (a grammatically awkward choice of title I must say) is rather vague on detail, but it gets major points from me for being turn-based, so I'll be looking forward to this.

 

There is one other 3.5e turn-based, party-based D&D game that I know of, which I don't think I've ever seen anyone talk about here, called Dungeons and Dragons Tactics, which is almost as faithful as ToEE in its implementation of the 3.5 rules.  It allows up to 5 or 6 player-made party members, all standard playable races, most base classes including some I didn't expect to see like psionics, and battles include all of the detailed options you see in ToEE, like 5-foot steps, readying against attacks, charges, bull rushes, grappling, free actions, giving up a standard action to move twice, and more.  There are light and visibility penalties, crossbows require reloading after firing, and you can't cast somatic spells if your hands are full.  Characters below 0 HP are dying and need to be stabilised or healed before they die.

 

I say "almost" as faithful, because it doesn't seem to cost anything to resurrect dead party members at a temple, and I think spells with costly components are free as well.  I don't think there's any crafting.

 

The major shortcoming is that there's no branching dialogue and you can only explore map locations when you're on a quest for that location.

[rjshae]

The Codex is a big steaming pile of invectives and bile, but they do occasionally put out a decent review. I've long since removed them from my bookmarks though, so I usually hear about the good parts third hand. Thanks.

 

I was very much looking forward to Chaos Chronicles; partly because of the isometric perspective and very nice graphical look, but also because of the turn-based combat on a hexagonal grid. It was a big disappointment when that fell through, for seemingly ridiculous reasons

 

Yes, I also thought that Demons Age looked similar to Chaos Chronicles, although I didn't see anything to confirm that. I do like the look of Demons Age and I hope it lives up to the potential.

[Tchos]

Yes, I also thought that Demons Age looked similar to Chaos Chronicles, although I didn't see anything to confirm that.

 

If there's yet any doubt, this pair of screenshots dispelled it for me:

 

 

One of these is Demons Age and the other is Chaos Chronicles.

[animedreamer]

Wasn't D&D Tactics only on some mobile console? I definitely never saw it on PC or anything. So that's why i never picked it up. Yup a quick search showed it only came out on PSP, a ill-fated move if ever there was one.

[andysks]

Yes RPG Codex is really everything that is wrong with the internet. As you say though, they have the lead on rumors and news. I only found this Demons Age because I googled Chaos Chronicles just to see if it had been restored. Anyway, some more digging and from some posts of the developer of CC. Apparently the company which would publish CC went bankrupt and sold some assets. Bigmoon bought some, therefore they have some parts of CC for Demons Age. The same developer thinks the Demons Age won't get published though, however he didn't base this idea on any solid argument.

[Tchos]

Wasn't D&D Tactics only on some mobile console? I definitely never saw it on PC or anything. So that's why i never picked it up. Yup a quick search showed it only came out on PSP, a ill-fated move if ever there was one.

 

Yes, they're generally called handhelds, and I of course would have preferred that it had been on a computer, but they did quite a good job with the interface as a matter of fact.  It compares quite directly with the PC-only Gold Box D&D games by SSI in terms of its interface, in the ones before they added mouse support.  In any case, with so few games existing of this sort on any platform, I'm not in a position to complain about what it's on.