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Nightmare + Even Ground + In Hushed Whispers first battle = BEWARE!


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#1
PapaCharlie9

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TL;DR
  • Even Ground makes those two Venatori pretty tough for a squishy rogue or mage
  • Sigil of the Great Bear can get you into a Stamina-locked situation if you are solo, low on health and no way to restore health or stamina regen
  • Use Regen Health potions instead of Healing potions, so you can stay in Stealth and avoid Stamina-lock
  • Dorian is practically naked during that first fight and there isn't much you can do about it
  • EDIT UPDATE: @R0vena confirmed that Character Record is unlocked for about 2 seconds before the villains aggro, so you can assign abilities to Dorian. However, Inventory is completely blocked, so you still can't gear him up.
WHAT HAPPENED?
 
With Nightmare and Even Ground enabled (not Walk Softly, thank the Maker), I took my XP Level 8 QF DW Rogue and mandatory Dorian into the timewarp and landed in the dungeon of Redcliffe Castle just like everyone else does. We were greeted by two Venatori warriors. All completely standard.

Except that Dorian guzzled all but 2 of my healing potions in about the time it took me to go into Stealth and maneuver into position for a single Twin Fangs! And then he was dead, so I tried to revive him, he drank another potion and died after one hit. So there I was hanging out in Stealth setting up for another Twin Fangs and ... nothing. My Stamina bar was too low to do a Twin Fangs and didn't seem to want to budge. My health was very low too. When I tried to do some auto-attacks to build up Stamina, I took one hit each from both warriors and that's all she wrote. GAME OVER.

WTF?!

And, since there is no auto-save when that battle starts, I had to replay the entire War Table cutscene and Redcliffe Castle cutscene all over again.

That full party wipe happened twice before I wised up and hit Tactical the moment control came back to me, so I could figure out what was going on.
 
It all turned out to be a kind of a perfect storm situation that I wanted to warn others about.

  • Dorian had only the default armor and default weapon equipped
  • Because you immediately start in aggro, you can't equip Dorian with better gear
  • Dorian had no ability points assigned
  • Because you immediately start in aggro, you can't assign any of Dorian's abilities
  • My Inquisitor had the Sigil of Great Bear equipped, which cut my Stamina regen in half
  • Even Ground was making both of the Venatori Warriors level 8
  • I went into Stealth as soon as combat started
  • Because I was in Stealth, all aggro went on Dorian
So you can see why this cluster happened. Since Dorian had all aggro and no defense or offense, he pretty much would take a healing potion after every hit. When he hit the limit, he just died, without doing much damage to either of the warriors.
 
Because my IQ had the Sigil of the Great Bear, once I took half my HP in damage or more, I couldn't regen Stamina! That forced me out of Stealth and all aggro was on me. My armor and weapon were better than Dorian's, but not as good as the Venatori Warriors. Every time they hit me, particularly from my flank, I'd lose 1/3 to 1/2 my health.
 
SOLUTION
 
As soon as the battle started, I went into Character Record and raised Dorian's potion limit to max, meaning, no potions for him. He can't help, so I just let him die right away.
  
Back in combat mode, I'd do some Twin Fangs and Flank Attacks until I had no Stamina left.
 
Then I went into a long cycle of 1) Stealth, 2) wait several seconds for enough Stamina to regen to do Flank Attack/Skirmisher, 3) attack one of the Warriors, which put me back into Stealth, 4) repeat.
 
I couldn't use any of the healing potions I had reserved. If I did, I'd come out of Stealth and would be forced to auto-attack to regain Stamina, but that always lead to me being killed. So instead, I'd take a Regen Health potion right before doing the Flank Attack. Then I'd take damage, but regen would heal me up again while I was still in Stealth.
 
This took forever, but I finally killed one and then the other Venatori.
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#2
R0vena

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I went to re-watch this portion of the game to be sure (I always record my games) and it is indeed possible to assign Dorian points if you hit the pause the moment the cut scene ends. I sure did. You have practically half the second to hit the button, but it is possible.


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#3
PapaCharlie9

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I went to re-watch this portion of the game to be sure (I always record my games) and it is indeed possible to assign Dorian points if you hit the pause the moment the cut scene ends. I sure did. You have practically half the second to hit the button, but it is possible.


Good to know! I guess I'm just too slow hitting the button. Is there enough time to equip armor and staff on him, though? Kind of need both, though I think I'd rather have gear over abilities.

#4
Arvaarad

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The last time I played IHW, I was doing my solo(ish) archer, so I kind of ignored Dorian. But, if I'm not mistaken, that first split second is completely aggro free. Equipping stuff should be possible.


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#5
R0vena

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Indeed theoretically it should be possible, but I didn't do it and am not sure why... maybe I was blocked from inventory after all and points is all you can do? (Was a while since my pro-mage run, can't remember now). Or I just forgot to bring extra equipment for Dorian. Entirely possible.))


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#6
PapaCharlie9

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Indeed theoretically it should be possible, but I didn't do it and am not sure why... maybe I was blocked from inventory after all and points is all you can do? (Was a while since my pro-mage run, can't remember now). Or I just forgot to bring extra equipment for Dorian. Entirely possible.))


I just replayed the fight a couple of times more to check. Inventory is totally blocked, even if I hit it right at the start. Character Record, however, does have about a 2 second window. So you can assign abilities, but not gear Dorian up.
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#7
R0vena

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I just replayed the fight a couple of times more to check. Inventory is totally blocked, even if I hit it right at the start. Character Record, however, does have about a 2 second window. So you can assign abilities, but not gear Dorian up.

Argh. This fight on Nightmare + Trials is indeed a total... nightmare. Well, nice to know for sure.)



#8
DementedSheep

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Oh yeah, I did that (minus Sigil of Great Bear and + Walk Softly) a few days ago and it was really annoying. Dorian chugged 5 of my potions in that fight. I had pack light on as well so no refills for the rest of the mission and I'd forgotten to give myself regen potion. Fortunately, also being a rogue I could run crying to use tactical stealth to reach Cas before having to fight anything else and skip some rifts.


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#9
Arvaarad

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I just replayed the fight a couple of times more to check. Inventory is totally blocked, even if I hit it right at the start. Character Record, however, does have about a 2 second window. So you can assign abilities, but not gear Dorian up.


This is good to know, glad you checked it.

I assume this won't work, but are you able to access inventory after a manual disengage? Or are they already disengaged during that 2-second window?

#10
PapaCharlie9

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This is good to know, glad you checked it.

I assume this won't work, but are you able to access inventory after a manual disengage? Or are they already disengaged during that 2-second window?

I didn't try a manual disengage. And, unfortunately, I deleted the videos I made yesterday, so I'm not sure if the party is disengaged to start. I was watching the enemies rather than the characters to see when aggro started.
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#11
MilesUpShore

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Ha! :lol:

Had this little 'fun' encounter a few months ago. NM, Even Ground, Walk Softly.

I died about 4 times (and of course, punched the SKIP button a lot watched the cutscene 4 times) before I decided to just turn Walk Softly off for this single encounter.

I moved to a different platform back in January, so no Golden Nug und just some not-so-good gear. I don't really remember anymore, but the one of the Venatori that ALWAYS is promoted by Walk Softly (or at least, was for me): Does he always have random elemental resistances? Because my Inquisitor is a mage, so there is really no way I would try to kill him for an hour doing 1 damage point with half of my abilities. :ph34r:

And now I'm really curious to see someone finishing this battle with the requirements I had. :ph34r:


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#12
R0vena

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Ha! :lol:

Had this little 'fun' encounter a few months ago. NM, Even Ground, Walk Softly.

I died about 4 times (and of course, punched the SKIP button a lot watched the cutscene 4 times) before I decided to just turn Walk Softly off for this single encounter.

I moved to a different platform back in January, so no Golden Nug und just some not-so-good gear. I don't really remember anymore, but the one of the Venatori that ALWAYS is promoted by Walk Softly (or at least, was for me): Does he always have random elemental resistances? Because my Inquisitor is a mage, so there is really no way I would try to kill him for an hour doing 1 damage point with half of my abilities. :ph34r:

And now I'm really curious to see someone finishing this battle with the requirements I had. :ph34r:

I did, but with Archer. No Golden Nug, NM, all trials on (expect FF and Fair Weather Friends). As far as I remember the first couple of venatories could be not elites (but one is in like 75% of times). I did a lot of reloads before finally going through them and was ready to bash my head on the desk.) On NM enemies always have resistance to something, as far as I recall, so if you are a mage and unlucky to have the wrong staff equipped... I am not sure it is possible to go through that fight with these conditions.