72 réponses à ce sujet

[Xilizhra]

Yes, the vast majority of dead Dragon Age characters have remained dead. Which is as it should be.

 

I think Calpernia is actually example of this kind of thing being done well - there's no solid confirmation that she was killed, so it won't be a retcon when they bring her back. It's not going to be awkward like it was with Oghren, Leliana and Anders.

 

I mean, I guess people who don't like Calpernia will complain, but BioWare can easily fix that by letting the player kill her properly in DA4. If she is a companion, I think she should be like Zevran, Nathaniel and Velanna - someone you can fight or recruit depending on player preference. If she's a faction leader or some other kind of NPC she should be like the various potential Orlesian leaders. And I think that whatever they have planned for her should play out within the space of DA4, so they don't need to keep her alive in all world states in future.

Nah. I think that she should be kept alive as a vital part for everyone. She is, in my opinion, rather better than Dorian.

[X Equestris]

She's like Schrödinger's Cat: we'll have to open the box (wait for the next game, most likely) to find out.

[vertigomez]

She's like Schrödinger's Cat: we'll have to open the box (wait for the next game, most likely) to find out.

Schrödinger's Cal.

[Gervaise]

It is possible that she may not go by the name Calpernia any more.   It was never her real name and if she wanted to return to Tevinter it would be better to take a new identity considering she would still be on the Archon's hit list.

[Nocte ad Mortem]

I read the short story and she is a very compelling character. Did her DA:I arc generally paint her as pretty sympathetic? I realize she was working for Corypheus and the Venatori, but honestly, who wasn't? I'm not going to do a whole playthrough for Templar recruit branch, since it's not my thing. Maybe I can find a YouTube of her quest bits. 

[Donquijote and 59 others]

She's like Schrödinger's Cat: we'll have to open the box (wait for the next game, most likely) to find out.

Why Bioware is obsessed with Schrödinger did they hired him as a writer?

[thats1evildude]

Why Bioware is obsessed with Schrödinger did they hired him as a writer?

I hear they used to keep a cat called Schrodinger in the office, but I can't remember if it's still alive or dead. I'd have to observe the cat to confirm one way or another.

[fdrty]

I read the short story and she is a very compelling character. Did her DA:I arc generally paint her as pretty sympathetic? I realize she was working for Corypheus and the Venatori, but honestly, who wasn't? I'm not going to do a whole playthrough for Templar recruit branch, since it's not my thing. Maybe I can find a YouTube of her quest bits. 

 

She was a slave. And, I'm not sure she was ever technically emancipated - her slave owner was working for Corypheus, who recognised her talent before he shut the slave owner away in that magic cage prototype. She never came to Corypheus freely, and I imagine that most of the really bad stuff was done by others - she was an important part of Corypheus' plans, and he needed her loyalty. she is genuinely surprised if you reveal what Corypheus intends for her, and she does choose to leave, to improve Tevinter her own way.

 

She's what Dorian could be, if Dorian was born a slave and not an altus, and fell under the control of Corypheus. Her motivation is the same - a better, less corrupt Tevinter. It's just her methods and her boss which are different.

 

In my opinion, she's at least as sympathetic as Fenris for the same reason.

[vertigomez]

It is possible that she may not go by the name Calpernia any more.   It was never her real name and if she wanted to return to Tevinter it would be better to take a new identity considering she would still be on the Archon's hit list.

I think she'll keep the name. She seems to have named herself after Calpurnia, priestess of Dumat and foster mother of Darinius. It's meaningful for her.

I read the short story and she is a very compelling character. Did her DA:I arc generally paint her as pretty sympathetic? I realize she was working for Corypheus and the Venatori, but honestly, who wasn't? I'm not going to do a whole playthrough for Templar recruit branch, since it's not my thing. Maybe I can find a YouTube of her quest bits.

Here you go. Personally, I find her sympathetic. She's ruthless and I can picture her taking an extreme stance (like Anders in Act III), but she's no cackling villain.

Spoiler

[Jedi Master of Orion]

She's the leader of an organization that's mandate is "to spill the blood of the south" and wanted to a monster to kill countless people and enslave all of Thedas. The only reason she can turn against him is because she realizes Corypheus' plan will also be bad for her. If she's not a cackling villain, I'd say she's only a slight step below that.

[vertigomez]

She's the leader of an organization that's mandate is "to spill the blood of the south" and wanted to a monster to kill countless people and enslave all of Thedas. The only reason she can turn against him is because she realizes Corypheus' plan will also be bad for her. If she's not a cackling villain, I'd say she's only a slight step below that.

Actually she says that if he'd misuse her, he'd misuse his other followers. That's why she turns on him.

And I never said she wasn't a villain, just not a cackling one.

[Nocte ad Mortem]

Here you go. Personally, I find her sympathetic. She's ruthless and I can picture her taking an extreme stance (like Anders in Act III), but she's no cackling villain.

Thanks! I think she's a sympathetic character. In DA:I pretty much everyone was working for Corypheus, so I can't hold it against her that much. I feel like nearly everyone must have forgiven some person or group that fell for his crap. She was in a more vulnerable and sympathetic place than most. I think it'll be interesting to see how she and Dorian's views compare, if they're both featured enough to get a picture of it in the next game. A lot of their views seem the same about the value of Tevinter culture, but coming at it from totally different backgrounds. It was interesting seeing her perspective on slavery in the short story. I wonder if Dorian will have any deeper opinions on slavery once we see him again. It could be interesting to see what her wants vs what their political party wants. I hope Dorian is.. more invested in some of her concerns by the time we see him again, but I worry about their group being far less interested in the rights of slaves than I'm comfortable with after our first conversation. 

 

It makes me disappointed to have just gotten Samson. He's got the sad story with the love letter passing, but it just isn't on the same level. It's so obvious that they had a favorite on this one. Another thought, though, both she and Dorian say something about Tevinter being the "cradle of civilization" or "where life started in Thedas", something along those lines. No love for Arlathan. I'm sure Solas is over there like, "OH COME ON", every time we talk to a vint. lol  

[PapaCharlie9]

I hear people complain about the resurrections the series has had, but they tend to forget all the characters who have died and stayed dead.

The list includes:

%< snip >%

Which shows just how arbitrary the resurrection decision is.

This bugs me just as much as TV season finales that appear to kill off some character, only to be rescued in the next season's opener. Why even bother depicting their alleged death in the first place? It's blatant manipulation.

It doesn't even have to be a season finale, TWD Glenn's "death" being the prime exampled. Every writer and creative team that does this loses my respect. Only GoT gets a pass, since GRRM is relentless in killing off characters and letting them stay dead. I'm willing to let the handful of rescues and resurrections slide, given that butcher's bill.

[Akiza]

I'm quite possibly missing a couple and there are other fringe cases, such as Morrigan who can be stabbed in Witch Hunt but returns in DA:I with no explanation as to how she survived. Or Justice who can sort of be killed in Blackreach, yet survives to possess Anders in DA2, or Sten who was left in a cage to die with no will to escape but somehow becomes the Arishok. Now some of these characters (eg., Corypheus and Flemeth) have their "resurrections" framed as major plot points and are obviously fairly well thought-out. Others (Leliana and Anders) have weak explanations as to how they survived. The rest (Isolde, Zevran, Oghren, Samson and Brother Genitivi) are just bugs or plain oversight on the writer's part.

1)Sten

They never explained how he escaped from the cage and they made him Arishok even for the players who never killed the ex-Arishok and they later allowed Isabela to escape from the Qunari in the middle of the Ocean so that they could use Sten as Arishok for everyone regardless of what they did in their games.

2)
Morrigan......
This one had an huge plot armor in DAO,DAI and WH,they never explained why they allowed her to escape in Redclieffe despite there being an option in the dialogue for the warden to say that you want to kill her or why later in WH the warden refused to enter the eluvian after the attack and finish her in the crossroads(and the eluvian was in perfect conditions),they simply stood there like lemons and then credits rolls....
In DAI the Lyrium dragon crash her from the sky and she survive without any reason..
Oh Maker...she is beyond logic like Leliana..

3)Anders.....
Regardless of what you did (killed both him and Justice or did not allowed to them to meet with each other)they are in DA2 to destroy the chantry....

[Jedi Master of Orion]

Actually she says that if he'd misuse her, he'd misuse his other followers. That's why she turns on him.

And I never said she wasn't a villain, just not a cackling one.

 

Well yeah herself and her own guys. What's one step below "cackling" then? A chortling villain?

[fdrty]

She's the leader of an organization that's mandate is "to spill the blood of the south" and wanted to a monster to kill countless people and enslave all of Thedas. The only reason she can turn against him is because she realizes Corypheus' plan will also be bad for her. If she's not a cackling villain, I'd say she's only a slight step below that.

She isn't really the leader, she's more Corypheus' lieutenant. He's the one calling the shots, and the Venatori make references to 'The Elder One' far more often than Calpernia as their true leader.

 

She turns against him because she realises that he isn't really there to make Tevinter better, but to make it his demonic plaything. If he betrays his most loyal followers, then how can he value the lives of the slaves and the commoners of Tevinter? She leaves Corypheus not just out of self interest, but because she realises that he is a hypocrite, and his and her goals do not align.

 

The proof of this is that she doesn't leave to enact her own dastardly plan, but instead with a noble objective, shared by your own companion, Dorian (Dorian approves, btw)

 

Thanks! I think she's a sympathetic character. In DA:I pretty much everyone was working for Corypheus, so I can't hold it against her that much. I feel like nearly everyone must have forgiven some person or group that fell for his crap. She was in a more vulnerable and sympathetic place than most. I think it'll be interesting to see how she and Dorian's views compare, if they're both featured enough to get a picture of it in the next game. A lot of their views seem the same about the value of Tevinter culture, but coming at it from totally different backgrounds. It was interesting seeing her perspective on slavery in the short story. I wonder if Dorian will have any deeper opinions on slavery once we see him again. It could be interesting to see what her wants vs what their political party wants. I hope Dorian is.. more invested in some of her concerns by the time we see him again, but I worry about their group being far less interested in the rights of slaves than I'm comfortable with after our first conversation. 

 

It makes me disappointed to have just gotten Samson. He's got the sad story with the love letter passing, but it just isn't on the same level. It's so obvious that they had a favorite on this one. Another thought, though, both she and Dorian say something about Tevinter being the "cradle of civilization" or "where life started in Thedas", something along those lines. No love for Arlathan. I'm sure Solas is over there like, "OH COME ON", every time we talk to a vint. lol  

 

The other thing with Samson is that we did see him in DA2, and he was a person who, while morally questionable, and not exactly sober, he was doing the right thing (helping mages in need) and doing it because he sympathised with them. Calpernia was someone we'd never met before, and that may be why she had a slightly better storyline.

 

Like all red templars, Corypheus used his lyrium addiction against him - though Samson was hardly unwilling to go along with the worst of Corypheus' shenanigans. Whereas Calpernia was still, in my opinion, within the confines of moral ambiguity with what she did - she only killed bad people, and only when necessary.

 

It's obvious that there was no way for Samson to be a part of a peaceful world after the death of Corypheus. He was gone, both his mind and whatever good there ever was. Calpernia, however, was redeemable.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

She isn't really the leader, she's more Corypheus' lieutenant. He's the one calling the shots, and the Venatori make references to 'The Elder One' far more often than Calpernia as their true leader.

 

She turns against him because she realises that he isn't really there to make Tevinter better, but to make it his demonic plaything. If he betrays his most loyal followers, then how can he value the lives of the slaves and the commoners of Tevinter? She leaves Corypheus not just out of self interest, but because she realises that he is a hypocrite, and his and her goals do not align.

Yes she was. We see and hear orders from her to others in the Venatori. She was the leader of that group. The fact she also had a master doesn't change the fact she was in charge of that group. 

 

Why should she care if he values the lives of slaves and commoners? She certainly doesn't. We just have to look at the thousands killed, enslaved, and/or turned into monsters by the Venatori under her orders. 

She only left when she learned she was next up in becoming a victim. I hope Corypheus gave her a punishment deserving for a traitor. 

 

Like all red templars, Corypheus used his lyrium addiction against him - though Samson was hardly unwilling to go along with the worst of Corypheus' shenanigans. Whereas Calpernia was still, in my opinion, within the confines of moral ambiguity with what she did - she only killed bad people, and only when necessary.

Tell that to all the slaves who died in the Hissing Wastes under her orders, to give an example. 

 

Calpernia, however, was redeemable.

No, she isn't.  

[vertigomez]

Well yeah herself and her own guys. What's one step below "cackling" then? A chortling villain?

Mustache-twirling, obviously.

[Andromelek]

Which shows just how arbitrary the resurrection decision is.This bugs me just as much as TV season finales that appear to kill off some character, only to be rescued in the next season's opener. Why even bother depicting their alleged death in the first place? It's blatant manipulation.It doesn't even have to be a season finale, TWD Glenn's "death" being the prime exampled. Every writer and creative team that does this loses my respect. Only GoT gets a pass, since GRRM is relentless in killing off characters and letting them stay dead. I'm willing to let the handful of rescues and resurrections slide, given that butcher's bill.

On their defense I have to say it is fantasy, unless there is a permanent way to kill someone (like striking the final blow to an Archdemon) there's always room of return, even classic writers did a couple of revivals: Gandalf, Aslan, and presumably the White Witch could be revived through a ritual. On comics reviving is already a normal busines. The area where is really, REALLY wrong to revive someone is on science fiction: so yes, reviving Darth Maul and Cortana was an unforgivable choice.

[PapaCharlie9]

On their defense I have to say it is fantasy, unless there is a permanent way to kill someone (like striking the final blow to an Archdemon) there's always room of return, even classic writers did a couple of revivals: Gandalf, Aslan, and presumably the White Witch could be revived through a ritual. On comics reviving is already a normal busines. The area where is really, REALLY wrong to revive someone is on science fiction: so yes, reviving Darth Maul and Cortana was an unforgivable choice.

I don't mind resurrections that are symbolic (both Gandalf and Aslan) or for a thematic purpose (Frankenstein's creature, Hari in Solaris). I mainly mind the ones that are purely for manipulative purposes.

BTW, notice that I mentioned two legit science fiction resurrections. I don't agree that fantasy or science fiction gets any special treatment one way or the other. For me, it's more about integrity, regardless of genre.

[thats1evildude]

Which shows just how arbitrary the resurrection decision is.

 

Creative decisions are rarely arbitrary.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

She isn't really the leader, she's more Corypheus' lieutenant. He's the one calling the shots, and the Venatori make references to 'The Elder One' far more often than Calpernia as their true leader.

 

She turns against him because she realises that he isn't really there to make Tevinter better, but to make it his demonic plaything. If he betrays his most loyal followers, then how can he value the lives of the slaves and the commoners of Tevinter? She leaves Corypheus not just out of self interest, but because she realises that he is a hypocrite, and his and her goals do not align.

 

The proof of this is that she doesn't leave to enact her own dastardly plan, but instead with a noble objective, shared by your own companion, Dorian (Dorian approves, btw)

 

She was the leader of the Venatori, at one point she uses them to spy on Corypheus. But even in the case of her being Corypheus top lieutenant, that doesn't make her any better. That just means she's the second in command of an organization who's made it is to spill the blood of the south and help a monster conquer or destroy the world.

 

Calpernia turns against Corypheus because she realizes she and her own people would suffer alongside the countless innocents she actively tried to kill or enslave. She expresses no remorse for the harm she caused or the lives she tried so hard to ruin, only that she isn't able to succeed at it without harming herself and her own cause. 

 

I read the short story and she is a very compelling character. Did her DA:I arc generally paint her as pretty sympathetic? I realize she was working for Corypheus and the Venatori, but honestly, who wasn't? I'm not going to do a whole playthrough for Templar recruit branch, since it's not my thing. Maybe I can find a YouTube of her quest bits. 

 

Uh, most people? Corypheus' enemies probably vastly outnumber his allies. And many of his servants were manipulated against their will into serving him, like most of the Red Templars and the Grey Wardens. And I don't think that being one of his loyal followers is something that is easily forgiven in Thedas. I know my Inquisitors harshly judged or will harshly judge Denam, Florienne, Alexius, Samson and Erimond, for instance. 

[fdrty]

I know my Inquisitors harshly judged or will harshly judge Denam, Florienne, Alexius, Samson and Erimond, for instance. 

 

If only I could have made them all jesters.

[Xilizhra]

Calpernia turns against Corypheus because she realizes she and her own people would suffer alongside the countless innocents she actively tried to kill or enslave. She expresses no remorse for the harm she caused or the lives she tried so hard to ruin, only that she isn't able to succeed at it without harming herself and her own cause. 

You're not exactly seeing her at a moment conducive to soul-searching.

 

 

Tell that to all the slaves who died in the Hissing Wastes under her orders, to give an example.

So tell me how many she ordered killed.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

You're not exactly seeing her at a moment conducive to soul-searching.

 

But her change of heart doesn't even have anything to do with her questioning the morality of her cause at all, just a realization that it was impossible to achieve with Coryphues.