60 replies to this topic

[GoldenGail3]

Does it at least tie up loose ends? Is it worth watching? Because I meant to get around to it.

 

The problem with the Borgias is it ended with a lot of unfinished stuff.

Yes, indeed it is. It's ten times better than Marvel's Agent of Shield. 

[straykat]

Yes, indeed it is. It's ten times better than Marvel's Agent of Shield. 

 

I'm slowly watching Shield, but not really into it. My problem with it is bigger than the show though. Marvel and Fox have that weird deal with the X-Men and now Marvel's is trying to distance themselves from it. It's making the whole Mutant story lame.. and Agents of Shield is part of that.

 

But I'll get around to Agent Carter.

[kimgoold]

No Hawke overall doesn't matter in the grand scheme of events. Hawke is a deconstruction of the almighty video game protagonist that solves all the big inportant problems in the world. S/he can't do that. S/he doesn't have any grand influence on the world at large. Her/his influence is only on a very peronal level for the peole s/he actually helps (or torments if you play as jerk).

 

Events would have unfolded similarily without Hawke. Varric would have probably recruited the companions on his own for his expedition, maybe save Merill since she only joins the group because Hawke her/himself has business on Sundermount. The others are all met due to Varrics contacts or in case of Isabella because she hangs out at Varrics favourite bar.

The expedition would have taken place, the Qunari situation would have probably exploded a bit earlier and Meredith and her templars would most likely have killed the Arishok instead of Hawke. Then Meredith would most likely have usurped the position of Viscount as well and finally decided to anull the circle after Anders blew up the chantry (though she would probably have killed him as well instead of letting someone else make that decision without Hawke around), which in turn caused the mages at large to rebell later. Oh and Corypheus prison was weakening anyways as well so not even Hawkes involvement in that really mattered.

 

I have to say I personally enjoyed that tremendously and am very sad that due to the negativity this received from a lot of players, we'll probably never get a similar story from Bioware again.

 

Hawke really is no more than our eyes and ears for these events, and except on a companion basis (even this is subjective they would have soldiered on by themselves) didn't impact on much at all. Meredith would still have gone crazy even without the Lyrium idol she was That Paranoid to begin with. The human whine Anders was going bat crap crazy on his own and it was Seeker Lambert that kicked off the Mage Rebellion with his inhumane treatment on top of the unfair/cruel treatment mages were already subjected to. The Arishok was going to implode albeit sooner than he did in the game but it still was going to happen except the Templars would have put him down not Hawke and motley crew. 

Everything else I agree with you, Cory was getting out of that prison - and who knows perhaps with all the Hawkes dead the magical barrier might have failed on its own.

So no Hawke didn't matter in the grander scheme of things as it turns out. Although I'm sure s/he made a lovely meal for the nightmare demon.

[straykat]

Hawke really is no more than our eyes and ears for these events, and except on a companion basis (even this is subjective they would have soldiered on by themselves) didn't impact on much at all. Meredith would still have gone crazy even without the Lyrium idol she was That Paranoid to begin with. The human whine Anders was going bat crap crazy on his own and it was Seeker Lambert that kicked off the Mage Rebellion with his inhumane treatment on top of the unfair/cruel treatment mages were already subjected to. The Arishok was going to implode albeit sooner than he did in the game but it still was going to happen except the Templars would have put him down not Hawke and motley crew. 

Everything else I agree with you, Cory was getting out of that prison - and who knows perhaps with all the Hawkes dead the magical barrier might have failed on its own.

So no Hawke didn't matter in the grander scheme of things as it turns out. Although I'm sure s/he made a lovely meal for the nightmare demon.

 

Personally, I think a Meredith who was crazy on her own would be even more interesting. She was as well done as the Arishok, until the idol came back into the story. Both of those characters kind of fancied themselves "good" protectors of the city... but so did Hawke, and that's where all the fun was. 

[Inkvisiittori]

Nightmare speaks the truth: "Did you think you mattered, Hawke? Did you think anything you ever did mattered?"

 

Hawke never mattered. He was the least important character in his own story. Just a bystander, really. 

[AFA]

Hawke not being vital is kind of one of the main points of DA2. Cas believes he/she is the Warden 2.0 because of Varric's hype, later finding out that Hawke wasn't a world-saving hero.

 

IMO Hawke is a deconstruction of every Bioware hero

[Catilina]

Hawke not being vital is kind of one of the main points of DA2. Cas believes he/she is the Warden 2.0 because of Varric's hype, later finding out that Hawke wasn't a world-saving hero.

 

IMO Hawke is a deconstruction of every Bioware hero

Hawke the best Bioware hero! 

[GoldenGail3]

Hawke the best Bioware hero! 

No, Humorous Hawke is the best Bioware Hero! 

[Asha'bellanar]

I feel like the events of DA2 would've changed very little if Hawke had been killed by darkspawn in Lothering.

Absolutely agree. I've thought this for a long time. Hawke's "desisions" never amount to a hill of beans and only change the circumstances of the story in the most minor of ways. Nothing Hawke could have said or done would have made any difference at all for the major events.

 

It's somewhat like the "Big Bang Theory" proposition that Indiana Jones was entirely superfluous to the plot events of "Raiders of the Lost Ark".  

[AFA]

Absolutely agree. I've thought this for a long time. Hawke's "desisions" never amount to a hill of beans and only change the circumstances of the story in the most minor of ways. Nothing Hawke could have said or done would have made any difference at all for the major events.

 

It's somewhat like the "Big Bang Theory" proposition that Indiana Jones was entirely superfluous to the plot events of "Raiders of the Lost Ark".

 

I agree, which is why I like the character of Hawke and the storyline so much. It defies a ton of Bioware cliches. Varrics builds up Hawke as a Bioware hero and the events of DA2 as your standard hero's journey, which Cas believes until the end. In reality, Hawke was just a dude. A badass, but still just a guy. 

[TBastian]

Yes, because it's Hawke's presence that drives the story of DA:2 forward. The thing about Hawke is that he's most human out of all the DA protagonists - he's not a superpowered Grey Warden like the HoF or a nigh godlike being like the Inquisitor. It's very easy to underestimate the guy.

To argue that Hawke is useless is ridiculous though because Hawke is STILL one of the few beings who actually has some power over what happens in the DA universe. To argue that his presence wouldn't really change events like Anders blowing up the Chantry/etc is being short-sighted. The fact that Hawke associated with/helped out beings like Flemeth, the Qunari and many of the DA2 NPCs will have some far-reaching consequences/effects that we just don't know about yet. Since Hawke personally went toe-to-toe against the Arishok and won, for example, then it stands to reason that he is one being the Qunari might definitely respect (perhaps even fear) and likely parley with.
Bottomline, Hawke might not have the same obvious effect on game events as the HoF or the Inquisitor, but if the story of DA was like one giant tapestry then Hawke has threads EVERYWHERE, or at least, in a lot of very important sections. It's just that many of those sections aren't completely filled in yet.

Finally, from a technical standpoint DA:2 as a game is very linear. You are basically just moving from point A to point B, to point C, etc. It doesn't have as many sidequests/rabbit holes as DA:O or DA:I (it definitely helps that just about every resource in DA:2 was limited).

It's very easy to (mistakenly) fall under the impression that Hawke is just being shuttled from one event to another, when what actually happens is that the GAME (as Hawke) is simply making the decision for you. That it ends up seeming like the PLAYER's (as Hawke) decision doesn't have as much of an impact is one of the game's major shortcomings, likely brought about by the devs' inexperience since they were forced to make DA:2 into more of an action game.