81 réponses à ce sujet

[Loufi]

Yeah. Speccing out of DC entirely forces her to just be a glass cannon CQC class, which is really risky and not at all a feasible option for every player.

The more options the better IMO. DC offers one more primer (which besides isn't limited by range) for you and your teammates (it's a team game Deeber ! ), it's great to get BE when you can't engage immediatly in CQC and to get the weapon damage bonus as much as possible when you use warp rounds.

 

10% more weapon damage/some weight reduction (can't recall, I think I take the second) is not much, but still better than 3 ranks in a power I will use once every 3 matches on average

I thought you were speaking more generally. It depends on playstyles of course. But you do know that those 10% are actually more like a 5% bonus once you have added all the other weapon bonuses from consumables ? It's quite a bad evo for most power classes.

 

As for the weigth reduction evo, it would be only great for someone using the Claymore. But none healthy person would use that gun on the Fury anyway. 

[Marksmad is waving goodbye]

As for the weigth reduction evo, it would be only great for someone using the Claymore. But none healthy person would use that gun on the Fury anyway.

Of course not. Everyone knows the Fury should be carrying the Spitfire.

[iM3GTR]

Of course not. Everyone knows the Fury should be carrying the Spitfire.

But keeping the Claymore too for backup.

[DisturbedPsic0]

@ OP

 

If you want to put up a guide series on how to deal with phantoms, perhaps your first part should describe the peculiarities of phantoms themselves - on/off-host shenanigans, sync-kill mode, palm blaster vs. melee behaviour and how each is triggered, penetration distance for double/triple hits, shield-gate damage thresholds for Gold/Plat, staggering, etc. Going into detail about each adept's specifics after that would make much more sense and would be more beneficial for the casual reader.

 

I would also advise against showcasing tactics with lolcolyte/Venom - any kit at level 1 can deal with phantoms with those weapons. By all means, include a section about stagger and which weapons are capable of it, but stick it in the general phantom post; the adepts section of your guide should focus on what is specific about their power set, dodge, shields, etc.

 

As it is, you simply provide a set of instructions to be followed blindly, and not a very versatile one, at that. You can do better.

I appreciate the feedback. I'll answer your comments as best I can.

 

First, the spirit of this video in particular isn't about how phantoms work, it's about how to kill them with each kit, starting with adepts. Others have created guides you're talking about, and I don't feel like redoing what has already been done. This late into the cycle I felt like contributing something that I haven't seen yet. I wanted to keep it simple enough for new people to be able to follow without needing to have a full background into phantom mechanics, but also helpful to people who know how they work but still can struggle. 

 

Others have mentioned the Acolyte/Venom issue, and I did answer that in a previous post. All the kits in the videos are using the setups I normally use with them, so Acolyte is used more often on Adepts than others. I don't think I use it on any other class. Also, it does make sense to include the Acolyte in a Phantom killing video, since it does do the job well. I do want to showcase killing phantoms with powers as much as possible, since any character can shoot her with guns. The first way I show to kill her with the Human Adept showcases a great way of using powers to make her bubble, strips shields, getting pulled into singularity, thus allowing you to use other powers.

 

I appreciate you think I created a set of blind instructions, and in a way, I have. But it was done on purpose, to show as many ways of dealing with phantoms, with as many kits as possible, in a reasonable amount of time. I'm glad you think I can do better, that is the goal is to get better at anything I do. But as my schedule is right now, I work 50 hour weeks, volunteer, and have a family, so being able to put together better quality footage with editing, voice overs, etc is a little too much for my schedule right now.

[The_Nightman_Cometh]

Who suggested a no Dark Channel Huntress?     firing squad commence.... 

 

                                    

[DisturbedPsic0]

The volus one doesn't make sense. As long as you have a halfway decent gun on him that's capable of headshots, just go ahead with that after casting Stasis like you would with the human adept. And even if you don't have very precise aim, if you specced Stasis for damage taken before it breaks, you can gun her down while she's standing and quickly finish her off while she's momentarily slumped over on the ground.

You're not wrong about just headshot while in stasis. But, I did already show that with the Asari Adept, so I wanted to show other ways to do it. With incendiary ammo, you have access to biotic and fire explosions, the latter of which can finish her off really well. Plus, I like to show off offensive orb usage, which I really don't see a lot of on him.

 

 

And for ACA, Dark Channel staggers, so you'd have a moment to line up a headshot (again, if you have a gun that can perform them--I'd recommend a good high-powered pistol if possible*). Also, if you don't want to deal with the cooldown after detonating Dark Sphere, you could cast it, throw a swarm for one explosion, cast DC, detonate with another swarm. Arguably the second explosion isn't even necessary; at that point you could just leave and she'll die shortly anyway.

Others have complained about weapons used, and I've replied with this same comment. The weapons shown are weapons I normally use on these kits. You can obviously just put a strong gun on any class and aim for the head. That isn't the point of the video. It's about how to deal with phantoms easily, preferably with powers since every kit can bring a gun and shoot it. Powers are what makes each class different, and thus what makes dealing with phantoms different. Your comment on dark sphere cooldown usage is correct. I really only use his biotic explosions for CC since his powers don't have detonation buffs, so they're pretty weak. But if you want the extra damage, there's nothing wrong with what you said.

 

 

For human adept: Shockwave can also go through walls, etc, so that's a safe alternative for the squishy and fearful adept. Staggering with Warp is a good choice for headshots, or it can be quickly detonated with Shockwave if you have a short enough cooldown. (Unless I'm misremembering and Warp doesn't stagger, but I'm fairly sure it does, at least with certain units.)

 

Both your tactics for AA are fine, but if you've specced Stasis for Bonus Power, you can potentially go Stasis -> immediate Throw -> Stasis again just in case, if you're really paranoid about missing with your next shot/power/whatever.

Shockwave through walls is a good strategy if she's already primed. If you have teammates with snap freeze they don't stand a chance. Solo, I probably could've shown this, but the overall strategy is the same of strip shields and prime, then detonate, which I do with warp in the video from a distance, but you can obviously do the same with shockwave if you're close enough. With the adept, I like to keep my distance personally.

 

I have a fundamental issue with powers with "chances". I don't like them. If it was similar to poison strike, where every two dashes gave you a cooldown, I'd be all for it. Maybe, every 3rd stasis you don't get a cooldown. That way it's predictable and flows easier into combat and strategy. 

[yrael]

Obviously you wouldn't rely on the Stasis bonus power 100% of the time, but like I said, it provides an additional option when it does show up.

 

I still take issue with the "bring the Acolyte everywhere" approach, especially since you're saying it's about the powers and not the gun but still using the Acolyte as a crutch. If you were really concerned about showcasing the powers rather than weapons, you wouldn't be relying on the Acolyte (or, potentially, the Talon) to strip barriers in order for your methods to work. Sure, you can say that the weapons aren't the focus, but that isn't reflected in your advice at all.

 

Plus, your loadout shouldn't have to revolve around what you need to bring along in order to deal with Phantoms. If someone would rather bring a gun that doesn't have to be charged and that they might ultimately get more mileage out of, then there are plenty of options for that. As it stands, the Acolyte is a pretty limiting choice imo, as well as an uninspired one. It's also not always reliable off host--and, depending on the player, not necessarily reliable against fast-moving targets like Phantoms, either.

[MeetYourNanny]

Who suggested a no Dark Channel Huntress?     firing squad commence.... 

 

                                    

Firing squad? no no i i suggest some1 call the inquisition

 

[DisturbedPsic0]

Obviously you wouldn't rely on the Stasis bonus power 100% of the time, but like I said, it provides an additional option when it does show up.

 

I still take issue with the "bring the Acolyte everywhere" approach, especially since you're saying it's about the powers and not the gun but still using the Acolyte as a crutch. If you were really concerned about showcasing the powers rather than weapons, you wouldn't be relying on the Acolyte (or, potentially, the Talon) to strip barriers in order for your methods to work. Sure, you can say that the weapons aren't the focus, but that isn't reflected in your advice at all.

 

Plus, your loadout shouldn't have to revolve around what you need to bring along in order to deal with Phantoms. If someone would rather bring a gun that doesn't have to be charged and that they might ultimately get more mileage out of, then there are plenty of options for that. As it stands, the Acolyte is a pretty limiting choice imo, as well as an uninspired one. It's also not always reliable off host--and, depending on the player, not necessarily reliable against fast-moving targets like Phantoms, either.

You're entitled to your opinion. But using the Acolyte on 3 out of 65 characters isn't a crutch in my opinion.

 

Edit: Also, I personally make all my builds with the ability to kill phantoms in mind. That means either with the weapons I bring to help, or the powers they have. This is the case especially since I started soloing. Most other units in the game can be dealt with easily enough, but phantoms can be painful, thus the reason I made the video.

[GeneralXIV]

I use the locust on adepts mostly...

[MrBSN2017]

You're entitled to your opinion. But using the Acolyte on 3 out of 65 characters isn't a crutch in my opinion.

Edit: Also, I personally make all my builds with the ability to kill phantoms in mind. That means either with the weapons I bring to help, or the powers they have. This is the case especially since I started soloing. Most other units in the game can be dealt with easily enough, but phantoms can be painful, thus the reason I made the video.

Acolyte is a crutch, fact not opinion. As adepts, she's not hard to kill. Just wait for her bubble to pop then BE and a few bb's from the shuriken will get her wet everytime. You just have to learn how to treat a lady brotha.

[planehazza]

What difficulty is used in the video?

[DisturbedPsic0]

What difficulty is used in the video?

Gold. I'll update the OP saying this shortly.

[PatrickBateman]

Acolyte is a crutch, fact not opinion. As adepts, she's not hard to kill. Just wait for her bubble to pop then BE and a few bb's from the shuriken will get her wet everytime. You just have to learn how to treat a lady brotha.

Sure it's a crutch, I hear it melts platinum possessed Preatorians in a fraction of a second, you know there is more in this game than Bronze right?

[Bud Halen]

Dark Channel is everything that is good in this world.

 

QFMFT.  Not taking DC all the way through rank 6b Pierce -- well that's no build I would ever consider.  It's my favorite way to get an approaching Banshee to shut the F up while I quietly tend to a device objective.

 

My fondest moments of this game involve stringing BEs together in a semi-automatic fashion...via DC followed by throw after throw after throw mixed in with AF+throw detonations.  So many 6+6 BEs.

 

My Fury follows a different sequence with her DC vs Phantoms.  I always lead with DC (at range ) to get her to take a whining/pouting timeout...then get up in her grill with AF and KABOOM!

[DisturbedPsic0]

Acolyte is a crutch, fact not opinion. As adepts, she's not hard to kill. Just wait for her bubble to pop then BE and a few bb's from the shuriken will get her wet everytime. You just have to learn how to treat a lady brotha.

A crutch is something you  have to take everywhere or else you can't walk. Again, using it on 3 kits doesn't make it a crutch. You can always use another gun if you want. 

[PatrickBateman]

QFMFT. Not taking DC all the way through rank 6b Pierce -- well that's no build I would ever consider. It's my favorite way to get an approaching Banshee to shut the F up while I quietly tend to a device objective.

My fondest moments of this game involve stringing BEs together in a semi-automatic fashion...via DC followed by throw after throw after throw mixed in with AF+throw detonations. So many 6+6 BEs.

My Fury follows a different sequence with her DC vs Phantoms. I always lead with DC (at range ) to get her to take a whining/pouting timeout...then get up in her grill with AF and KABOOM!

Same for me, always 6 ranks in DC, I really like the possibility also to set of a 6 + 6 BE at range.

[DarkOrgasm]

Using a venom or acolyte on ANY kit trivializes a phantom, so this really doesnt show how an adept specifically would deal with the phantom with your combos.

 

Using any of the multiple stagger weapons on ANY kit works well,

 

but what if you aren't using any of those weapons?

 

I play UUG/UUP and 7 or 8 out of 10x I'm not using a stagger weapon nor are any pugs(and the pugs are who you are addressing I assume)

 

So it might be better to show how you handle phantom DR on host or for solos, or how to spook her into her animations that are advantageous to you.

 

Then show how you handle phantoms off host with lag with hit scan weapons since this is what a lot of ppl see in the real world of pugging with ppl using crappy weapons or not fully leveled up

[DisturbedPsic0]

Using a venom or acolyte on ANY kit trivializes a phantom, so this really doesnt show how an adept specifically would deal with the phantom with your combos.

 

Using any of the multiple stagger weapons on ANY kit works well,

 

but what if you aren't using any of those weapons?

 

I play UUG/UUP and 7 or 8 out of 10x I'm not using a stagger weapon nor are any pugs(and the pugs are who you are addressing I assume)

 

So it might be better to show how you handle phantom DR on host or for solos, or how to spook her into her animations that are advantageous to you.

 

Then show how you handle phantoms off host with lag with hit scan weapons since this is what a lot of ppl see in the real world of pugging with ppl using crappy weapons or not fully leveled up

I did mention this earlier in the thread, but I don't expect everyone to read every post before saying something. Basically, these are the weapons I personally use on these characters pretty much every time I play them. I l also builds my kits around being able to deal with phantoms as easily as possible. On adepts in particular, that means acolyte on 3 kits and venom on 1 other. I don't use the Acolyte on any other characters in the game. They just synergize very well with these kits, so I use it.  Also, I do show how to deal with them with hit scan weapons on other characters who don't have stasis (Ex-Cerb, Shaman, Slasher, ACA...) so that is on display in the video if you want to use that on my acolyte kits. The video isn't about showing off super amazing skill and MLG phantom killing moves. It's about dealing with them as quickly and easily as possible, with variety. I use a lot of weapons on a lot of different characters, and other videos (especially soldiers) will show off a greater variety of weapons.

[Stinky3377]

 

Here's how I used to deal with Phantoms

[Bud Halen]

A crutch is something you  have to take everywhere or else you can't walk. Again, using it on 3 kits doesn't make it a crutch. You can always use another gun if you want. 

 

And nothing wrong with using an AcLOLyte-Pull Adept  It's simply watchadu.

[Bud Halen]

Same for me, always 6 ranks in DC, I really like the possibility also to set of a 6 + 6 BE at range.

 

Since this is a good informational discussion/thread, I should re-emphasize for any interested lurkers...

 

Ranged BEs detonated by throw vs Phantoms can be a real challenge.  They'll either flip-dodge it or straight up bubble-block (bubble is more likely from a projectile power like throw).  A good way to overcome this is to apply suppressing fire in order to FORCE the flip-dodge...then cast the throw immediately when you see her flip.  The BE should BOOM right as she lands -- if you're not too far way.

[Deerber]

Maximize her effectiveness within a specific play style, sure. If it works for you, then by all means. But different people can "maximize her effectiveness" in different ways.

 

But you also started talking about how it's pointless for you to spec into DC when you hardly use it, so once again, matter of preference.

 

When I say maximize a character's effectiveness, I mean to minimize the amount of time the team spends in the match while using a certain character, all the other things being averaged out. It's a pretty specific condition, and how you can do that is definitely not a matter of preference, and most of the times it requires a very specific playstyle and none others. In the Fury's case, DC is just a waste of time on... Pretty much 90% of the maps, and it's dubiously helpful on the other 10%.

 

The more options the better IMO. DC offers one more primer (which besides isn't limited by range) for you and your teammates (it's a team game Deeber ! ), it's great to get BE when you can't engage immediatly in CQC and to get the weapon damage bonus as much as possible when you use warp rounds.

 

I thought you were speaking more generally. It depends on playstyles of course. But you do know that those 10% are actually more like a 5% bonus once you have added all the other weapon bonuses from consumables ? It's quite a bad evo for most power classes.

 

As for the weigth reduction evo, it would be only great for someone using the Claymore. But none healthy person would use that gun on the Fury anyway. 

 

Loufi, you've been knowning me for a while now. Do you really think I wouldn't know that it's an additive bonus? I was just trying to keep things simple. 5% is still better than nothing, just as 10% is.

 

As for the comment on the weight, Claymore Fury is actually a thing of beauty and a perfectly functional rekting machine, and you know that Though it's probably not the optimal way to play her, from an effectiveness point of view. Still very much fun, although it doesn't rely on that evolution but rather on the no CD one of throw. Still, even for a less heavy weapon like the Venom (which I use), the weight reduction evolution is actually tremendously underrated on the fury, since it directly translates in power dps. I'll take 0.15 secs shorter CD on my throw over having the chance of using DC any day every day.

 

As for the team comment, well... The team's purpose is usually to end the match in the fastest way possible, so as I see it I'm actually being more beneficial to them by running in and throw bombing that spawn than by staying back and slowly eating it with DC and throw.

[The_Nightman_Cometh]

Of course not. Everyone knows the Fury should be carrying the Spitfire.

Obviously you have dropped into a few of my lobby's.

[Marksmad is waving goodbye]

But keeping the Claymore too for backup.

Well, that goes without saying. The Claymore is a fine sidearm.