23 réponses à ce sujet

[Bayonet Hipshot]

So something in the tarot cards for the possible Inquisitors intrigued me.

 

Let's start with the Trevelyans.

 

Here is the tarot card for Mage Trevelyan:- http://vignette3.wik...=20141217203419

 

Here is the tarot card for Non-Mage Trevelyan:- http://vignette3.wik...=20141217202951

 

The horse is often used as a symbol of nobility and hard work. On the other hand, the owl is known as a symbol of mystery, knowledge and wisdom.

 

Here is the tarot card for Mage Lavellan:- http://img3.wikia.no...ntice_tarot.png

 

Here is the tarot card for non-Mage Lavellan:- http://vignette2.wik...=20141217203426

 

The wolf is a predatory pack animal that lives in the woods. On the other hand, the stag is a magnificent majestic beast of the woods.

 

My questions are:-

 

1) Do the cards mean or imply that Mage Trevelyans are wiser and more knowledgeable than their non-Mage counterparts ?

 

2) Do the cards mean or imply that Mage Lavellan are more majestic and more magnificent than their non-Mage counterparts ? After all, Wolves can be..very dreadful...Stags are by contrast, always magnificent...

 

3) Do the cards imply that Mage Human and Mage Elf > Non-Mage Human and Non-Mage Elf ? Because the tarot cards for Mage Qunari and Non-Mage Qunari are the exact same but that's not the same with Human and Elf.

 

What do you think ?

[straykat]

I never read into the owl imagery too much. I know it denotes wisdom, but I just figured it was a way to convey that they cut ties more with their family (funnily, the actual real life Trevelyan family crest is a horse too. So that's why I think they used it).

[GoldenGail3]

Mage Lavellan. 

[Reznore57]

I thought the cards were about male/female?

[nightscrawl]

... (funnily, the actual real life Trevelyan family crest is a horse too. So that's why I think they used it).

I have assumed this as well. There is even the same water/wave imagery on the real-world crest, which seems mirrored by the foamy, wave-like nettles in the game version.
 
 

I thought the cards were about male/female?

Nope. The player of whichever origin/class gets those cards, regardless of gender. There are gender-specific cards that you see when choosing your gender in the CC, but those are not used as part of the in-game codex for your origin.

[Bayonet Hipshot]

I thought the cards were about male/female?

 

The cards are the same for the sexes though the Elf Mage one has a male bias since its a stag. An adult male deer is known as a stag whereas an adult female Deer is known as a doe.

 

Stag:- http://animal-dream..../stag/stag3.jpg

 

Doe:- https://c1.staticfli...a51f2a246_b.jpg

 

Mage Lavellan tarot:- http://img3.wikia.no...ntice_tarot.png

[Gervaise]

It would have made more sense if they made the Lavellan mage a white deer since I believe there is no distinction between male and female halla with regard to antlers, they are associated with the Dalish and the halla keeper seems often to be a mage.   You'd think that an elf mage would have had a creature associated with Dirthamen.   So may be there is no significance to the card at all and they just went with something that looked good.  

 

It did seem ironic that they used the black wolf image for the non-mage, because of the links with Fen'Harel and the wolf looks pretty sinister.   However, the Emerald Knights were said to have wolf guardians, so the imagery makes more sense in light of that.   The non-mages are guardians of their clans and united as a group, working together, just like the wolf pack.    The mages are the leaders, watching out for their family and guiding them, like the stag in a group of deer.   That's the best I can come up with.

[Bayonet Hipshot]

It would have made more sense if they made the Lavellan mage a white deer since I believe there is no distinction between male and female halla with regard to antlers, they are associated with the Dalish and the halla keeper seems often to be a mage.   You'd think that an elf mage would have had a creature associated with Dirthamen.   So may be there is no significance to the card at all and they just went with something that looked good.  

 

It did seem ironic that they used the black wolf image for the non-mage, because of the links with Fen'Harel and the wolf looks pretty sinister.   However, the Emerald Knights were said to have wolf guardians, so the imagery makes more sense in light of that.   The non-mages are guardians of their clans and united as a group, working together, just like the wolf pack.    The mages are the leaders, watching out for their family and guiding them, like the stag in a group of deer.   That's the best I can come up with.

 

Actually Dirthamen is primarily associated with the bear, not deer. The bear is his favorite animal.

 

http://dragonage.wik...dex_entry:_Bear

[straykat]

I always associated the Warden with deer imagery.. or halla specificially. Especially the female. Not to mention Mahariel means the angel guarding the gates of heaven. Which is similar to both Halla myths and Falon'Din. So you could pick one or the other, if you wish. Then their parent clan (Sabrae) uses a Halla for their emblem too.

 

Anyways... A stag is a whole other beast, I guess. I don't know what it means for the mages here. Personally, I like the hunter Dalish more.

[vertigomez]

It's just symbolism. A hard-working, noble-looking horse ties in with a non-magical Trev, while a human mage spent their time in the Circle studying. It's not objectively saying that mage Trevelyan is wiser than their counterpart.

Wolves are hunters, like a......... hunter. One of the pack. And stags are singular and you can't miss 'em, like a Keeper.

Mage and non-mage qunari share the same card because their background is essentially the same. You were a merc. But in the case of Lavellan, being First to the Keeper and being a hunter are vastly different roles, and a mage and non-mage Trevelyan were raised in separate environments.

[Gervaise]

I never said that the deer was associated with Dirthamen.   Please read my post.   I said that it would make more sense to have a creature that was associated with him.   Mind you I struggle to work out in what way a bear would be connected with the god of secrets and knowledge, unless the writers were thinking of Baloo in the Jungle Book.   I wish they would explain the thinking behind some of their choices so we can make sense of it.

[nightscrawl]

^ The codex for the bear that Bayonet Hipshot linked explains it...
 

"No beast is more beloved by Dirthamen than the bear. When the world was new, Dirthamen gave one secret to each creature to keep. The foxes traded their secrets to Andruil for wings. The hares shouted theirs to the treetops. The birds sold theirs for gold and silver. Only the bears kept Dirthamen's gift, deep within their dens, they slept the months away in the company of their secrets and nothing else.
 
When Dirthamen discovered what had been done with his gifts, he snatched the wings from the foxes, silenced the voices of the hares, and turned the birds into paupers, but the bears he honored for their steadfastness."
 
--Transcribed from a Dalish tale, 9:8 Dragon.

[straykat]

I wonder if Andruil kicked his ass, for silencing her little hares.

 

Maybe that was the beginning of everything going bad.

[Gervaise]

That explanation is quite funny if you think about it because it implies that bears are the only creatures which hibernate.   I suppose they are the only creature that the early Dalish might have stumbled on by accident.   Let's use this cave to keep warm.   Help there is a big bear in it.   Oh it seems to be asleep.   It is a bear in uthenera!     I'm pretty sure these sorts of tales are fanciful little ones that the Keepers made up to explain certain strange cave panting they come across in their travels than actual lore handed down from ancient times.   Still I suppose it is a possibility that Dirthamen didn't shape shift into a dragon but a bear, which is why they might have come across references to the bear connected with him.

 

I sure feel bad about Lavellan killing all those bears now if they are meant to be Dirthamen's holy animals.   To be fair I did my best to avoid them but they just kept creeping up on me.   Made it up with Storvaker though, so I suppose that counts for something.

[Sah291]

Wiser and more knowledgeable? No, not necessarily. But the owl is associated with magic, generally speaking. The stag is considered a magical animal too, associated with spirits.

What stands out to me though is how both the stag/halla and wolf appear to be targeted. Wolves are predators and associated also with hunting and war, but both look like they are being hunted there. The wolf has two arrows stuck in it, and the stag also has arrows pointing at it. The dark coloring there doesn't make me think sinister, but maybe death?

The stag isn't associated with Dirthamen, but it is associated with both Falon'Din and Ghilan'nain. In one story codex Falon'din was supposed to have found a dying deer, took pity, and helped it cross the Veil (where Dirthamen couldn't follow). And Ghil was of course heavily associated with the halla.

[LadyofClockwork7]

Reading into it a little too much with your ponderings I think.

 

Owl + Mage Trevelyan = Wisdom. (Grew up in a circle, therefore potentially an academic. Could somewhat represent being a bird in a cage.)

Horse + Non-Mage Trevelyan = Pride. (Grew up surrounded by nobility as a noble themselves so y'know, goes without saying. Horses are considered strong, proud animals.)

Wolf + Non-Mage Lavellan = Hunter. (Non-mage Lavellan helps provide for their clan/"pack" by protecting them or providing food.)

Stag + Mage Lavellan = Mystical. (Lots of magical symbolism associated with a stag, halla in particular are meant to be majestic beasts, so a wood-dwelling elven mage could be seen as an equivalent in terms of mysticism.)

 

I don't think these things are meant to symbolise one is better in any regard than the other, though.

[WardenWade]

Personally, I like the Dalish hunter card a lot.  Hunter Lavellan is a clever, dangerous wolf, like Fen'Harel...if it's meant to imply a connection to him, I like it

[In Exile]

Mages are stereotypically associated with knowledge, versus martial prowess. Not just for the PC, but generally. 

[Tidus]

A wolf was feared by man and beast alike it was a apex predator that could bring down a man or cougar. A good card for hunter Lavillan or Hume. A skilled hunter is a apex predator.

 

A owl is and always was a symbol of wisdom. Good for  mage Lavillan since Dalish mages are basically self taught under the keepers watchful eye.

 

A owl is not good for a hume mage because they are taught limited Chantry approved magicks in Circles.

[draken-heart]

From the title, I thought this thread was about which one is better of the two, and would have said just have fun. Reading op, they just mean one is a mage, and the other is not. Neither is really better than the other just because the cards show two different things.

[Xerrai]

It's probably coincidental, but of the two families...

The Lavellan animals are ones that, though wild, are usually commonly hunted by humans. Wolves for being pests to livestock, deer for being a common food/pelt item. Not inherently evil or anything, but they are viewed as something worth killing/hunting by most human settlements.

 

Then the Trevelyan animals are ones that would not be unusual to see in a nobles' home. Horses are both prized animals and beasts of burden (fitting for their Chantry/Templar affiliation). Owls can also be pets, but they are far from common in most cases (makes sense for mages though).

[Tidus]

Xerrai,Even hunting wolves with a gun is a dangerous undertaking they can leap from behind or the side before the hunter can react. The wolf will know where you're at long before  you see him and being a pack hunter the hunter's  chances gets slimmer with each step toward the pack.

[Ghost Gal]

It's probably coincidental, but of the two families...

The Lavellan animals are ones that, though wild, are usually commonly hunted by humans. Wolves for being pests to livestock, deer for being a common food/pelt item. Not inherently evil or anything, but they are viewed as something worth killing/hunting by most human settlements.

 

Then the Trevelyan animals are ones that would not be unusual to see in a nobles' home. Horses are both prized animals and beasts of burden (fitting for their Chantry/Templar affiliation). Owls can also be pets, but they are far from common in most cases (makes sense for mages though).

 

No, it's probably partially intentional.

 

Lots of humans murder elves for sport. Vaughan Kendells of the City Elf Origin in DAO was a serial rapist and murderer of elven women. Chevaliers commonly kill elves in the alienage as part of their initiation; Michel de Chevin was one of them. Skinner, of Iron Bull's company, can atest that the nobles near her alienage used to test their blades on elves, so now she kills shems for a living. Gaspard was planning on making elf-hunting legal.

 

It helps, too, that both wolves and stags are forest animals. Where are Dalish commonly found?

 

Meanwhile, horses are found in human stables, and owls... well, they're wild too, but thanks to Pallas Athena they're associated with knowledge and wisdom in Western culture. What do Circle mages do in towers, but read and study books on magic?

[CoM Solaufein]

Can't say I sunk too much thought into it. I play the game, kill things, get phat l00t and become a godlike being at the end.