214 réponses à ce sujet

[Iakus]

 

Of course, this post might be seen as somewhat contrary to what I've been saying about the game- that I'm not going to buy it until it gets good reviews from previous players like myself. But I believe that BW couldn't possibly be so stupid as to make the same serious mistakes twice in a row when it comes to plot in two different franchises.

I can' think of any logical reason why they made the mistake once!

 

I knew, just knew, as soon as the rumors started circulating, that there would be riots if the endings were true.  I am not, by any stretch a professional writer, nor do I do any marketing.  but as a consumer, I knew they'd go over like a lead balloon.  

 

And thus, I discounted those rumors as false, because if I, a nonprofessional could see that, then surely people who get paid to produce and sell these games would never even consider going that route.

 

Silly me.

[AlanC9]

I actually have a working theory on that. Before I post it, could you give us a couple of sentences on how and why you reacted to the leak? It'll be conceptually cleaner than talking about reacting to the game itself since implementation issues go away. (I can't play since I deliberately avoided the leaks.) I suppose we could also pull the old leak thread too.

[Iakus]

I actually have a working theory on that. Before I post it, could you give us a couple of sentences on how and why you reacted to the leak? It'll be conceptually cleaner than talking about reacting to the game itself since implementation issues go away. (I can't play since I deliberately avoided the leaks.) I suppose we could also pull the old leak thread too.

Okay.

 

Well, you know how there were those script leaks before release?  Well, there were groups forming to talk about it, and I joined a couple of them.  I was, however, careful to avoid talk about the ending.  Mainly I was looking for spoilers on stuff I found lacking in ME2:  companion banter, the main story, references to past games, returning characters, that sort of thing.

 

Then EA did that thing where they sent copies into space with weather balloons, or something like that.  So people were able to get early copies.  Well at that point people were able to play the games and even dig into the game files.  That set these groups ON FIRE with news that Shepard dies in virtually every outcome.  That "the Catalyst" was some ghost child.  And so on.  There was no way at this point that I could avoid ending spoilers.  But as I said, I dismissed them as either exaggerations or outright fabrications meant to troll people.  Still, at this point I went dark on these threads because I didn't want to be "really" spoiled.  Little realizing I already had been,

 

When I came back a couple of weeks later having finished the game, the BSN was already in flames.

[Spectr61]

I can' think of any logical reason why they made the mistake once!
 
I knew, just knew, as soon as the rumors started circulating, that there would be riots if the endings were true.  I am not, by any stretch a professional writer, nor do I do any marketing.  but as a consumer, I knew they'd go over like a lead balloon.  
 
And thus, I discounted those rumors as false, because if I, a nonprofessional could see that, then surely people who get paid to produce and sell these games would never even consider going that route.
 
Silly me.

My thoughts too.

What a squandered opportunity. They had all the goodwill in the world, with a well received, ground breaking first game, and the second sitting at the top, if not the very top of many "best game" lists.

To greenlight what we got iin 3, especially the endings, is mind boggling to me.

They had the chance to create something legendary, and ME3 is lots of things, but legendary in a good way is not one of them.

I wonder if there are any regrets with Mssrs Hudson and Walters, et al.

[FirstBlood XL]

This has probably been said a dozen times already here, but:

 

The outrage at 'the ending' was made very clear on this very forum for months... it's not that the ending is 'sad' or takes risks, it's that none of your specific choices/accomplishments mattered.

 

For instance, in that near-last push, when you're getting ambushed by the mobile rocket launchers, and wave after wave of banshees are coming after you... Would have been cool to be bailed out by the Krogan (if you cured the genophage). Later, a swarm of Rachni come (if you saved the Queen in pt 1) and distract Harbinger enough for you to make it to the beam without being 'lasered' to smithereens, etc.

 

If I remember correctly, I managed to get the Geth and Quarians to exist in peace -- and they couldn't combine their scientific prowess to contribute something impactful for the final battle?

 

I don't even remember the true specifics anymore, it's been so long... but I just remember a feeling of emptiness as the last act unrolled, after uniting so many races... just felt like I was thrust along the scripted path of the lone 'Rambo Squad' at the end.

 

That is what I remember most people complaining about... and it seemed to be pretty clear at the time.  The developers would be deluding themselves to think of it any other way.

[straykat]

This has probably been said a dozen times already here, but:

 

The outrage at 'the ending' was made very clear on this very forum for months... it's not that the ending is 'sad' or takes risks, it's that none of your specific choices/accomplishments mattered.

 

For instance, in that near-last push, when you're getting ambushed by the mobile rocket launchers, and wave after wave of banshees are coming after you... Would have been cool to be bailed out by the Krogan (if you cured the genophage). Later, a swarm of Rachni come (if you saved the Queen in pt 1) and distract Harbinger enough for you to make it to the beam without being 'lasered' to smithereens, etc.

 

If I remember correctly, I managed to get the Geth and Quarians to exist in peace -- and they couldn't combine their scientific prowess to contribute something impactful for the final battle?

 

I don't even remember the true specifics anymore, it's been so long... but I just remember a feeling of emptiness as the last act unrolled, after uniting so many races... just felt like I was thrust along the scripted path of the lone 'Rambo Squad' at the end.

 

That is what I remember most people complaining about... and it seemed to be pretty clear at the time.  The developers would be deluding themselves to think of it any other way.

 

I think that's more of a problem with Priority Earth. And I agree, it's crap.

 

The ending itself is what many complain about. I wish they complained about Earth instead. Maybe I would have gotten an extended cut of that. I don't care about the final part. It served it's purpose.

[themikefest]

I think that's more of a problem with Priority Earth. And I agree, it's crap.

 

The ending itself is what many complain about. I wish they complained about Earth instead. Maybe I would have gotten an extended cut of that. I don't care about the final part. It served it's purpose.

Here's a thread about what people didn't like about priority Earth.

 

If interested, this is what I posted in the thread

[straykat]

Here's a thread about what people didn't like about priority Earth.

 

If interested, this is what I posted in the thread

 

I think people have discussed it since, but I mean... there weren't enough complaints in the months after release. The complaints about the final ending drowned out everything....good or bad.

[aoibhealfae]

I am already skeptical that BW would consider pulling another stunt with their ending and to please everyone it would possibly be a slideshow as in Trespasser.

 

But I read recently that people did went on full on Gamergate on Bioware and its employee  because they're deeply unhappy about Shepard being dead in almost all but one ending and giving BW death threats .... BSNers, please don't do this.
 

[n7stormrunner]

don't worry, it doesn't matter what bioware does with the ending, most of the hate will not be based on anything in the game or anything bioware has control over. it almost never is.

[RoboticWater]

don't worry, it doesn't matter what bioware does with the ending, most of the hate will not be based on anything in the game or anything bioware has control over. it almost never is.

Really? Nearly all the negative comments I see for ME3 are about its ending. In fact, many of those comments even admit that "99% of the game was fantastic and then the end happened." Given how many structural and narrative issues the overall game had, I consider most of the hate towards ME3 to be quite generous.

 

Similarly, the criticisms of DA:I are almost exclusively about the narrative, combat, and quest design, all of which are absolutely deserving of criticism and largely (if not completely) down to BioWare's design choices. Describing the game as "absolutely terrible" is fairly hyperbolic, but I can't say that anyone with such low regard for DA:I is completely unfounded in their opinion.

 

What are these other factors outside of BioWare's control? I know they get hate for being "mainstream" and part of EA, but I wouldn't describe that as the brunt of the criticism. It's just a low growl looming in the background compared to the completely legitimate, though somewhat misguided (I think people give ME3 a bit too much credit and DA:I a bit too much hate), negative opinions.

[Anacronian Stryx]

But ..but haven't you people heard.."artistic license!! -  all the people who didn't like the ending of ME 3 were just too dumb to understand the art of it and is wrong about every complaint.

 

Of cause it's weird you can claim artistic license when the creators of said art literary cut off a portion of the game and sold it as day one DLC but let's not talk about that.

[n7stormrunner]

Really? Nearly all the negative comments I see for ME3 are about its ending. In fact, many of those comments even admit that "99% of the game was fantastic and then the end happened." Given how many structural and narrative issues the overall game had, I consider most of the hate towards ME3 to be quite generous.

 

Similarly, the criticisms of DA:I are almost exclusively about the narrative, combat, and quest design, all of which are absolutely deserving of criticism and largely (if not completely) down to BioWare's design choices. Describing the game as "absolutely terrible" is fairly hyperbolic, but I can't say that anyone with such low regard for DA:I is completely unfounded in their opinion.

 

What are these other factors outside of BioWare's control? I know they get hate for being "mainstream" and part of EA, but I wouldn't describe that as the brunt of the criticism. It's just a low growl looming in the background compared to the completely legitimate, though somewhat misguided (I think people give ME3 a bit too much credit and DA:I a bit too much hate), negative opinions.

 

 

already lets give this a shot.

 

first of me3 ending most the complaints about about make less sense then the base ending. starchild, not a plot hole nothing in the plot stops working because the reapers had some kinda reason for what they did. bad reason maybe, unneeded, rather odd that it was just throw in there at the end but not a plothole. the endings themselves destroy and control been built up to from at least the start of me 2. synthesis at least the tried to give a golden ending for those worked for it. refuse game over not a ending and really dumb with a way to stop them, your stated goal for 3 games,  right there.

 

now not reflecting choices basically people throwing a fit because of a myth they made up in their own minds, nothing to do with bioware. the ems score may have been a poor way to handle it but after 3 game nothing would have been good enough anyway and it worked for what they needed. the whole game was almost nothing but call backs with a admittedly pretty basic bioware plot thrown over but if you hate bioware game why would you spend your time on the bioware forum talking about them? so more fans with unrealistic expections. not a bioware problem since they can't stop people from having them.

 

on da: I narrative? subjective bioware can't control that. combat case of be careful what you wish for they made changes based on what fans said and what you know fans dislike it. if the fan base doesn't know what it wants how can bioware? I have a few problems with it myself but other people asked for those things I dislike and as they pay for the games too they have a right to get things they enjoy to. quests pure fan dumb, complaining about something and holding up another game with the same things as better is just dumb but gamers do it all the time. bioware can't change human nature.

 

not saying bioware is perfect but a lot of the complaining is based more on the fan in question then bioware. and they do admit to mistake the fact they made then gave away the me3 extended ending proves that. which is alot more than what some companies do.

[Sifr]

I think that's more of a problem with Priority Earth. And I agree, it's crap.

 

The ending itself is what many complain about. I wish they complained about Earth instead. Maybe I would have gotten an extended cut of that. I don't care about the final part. It served it's purpose.

 

Part of me wishes we could have a sidequel to ME3 that followed another fireteam, taking and expanding on the concept from the multiplayer into a single-player setting. Playing the leader of one the rag-tag fireteams who took part in some of the events that we only ever hear about in ME3, such as Anderson's resistance on Earth, the Turians fighting on Palaven, the Krogan riding dinosaurs into battle, Elcor with giant cannons on their backs?

 

Although a game set on Earth during the Reaper invasion would have enough possibilities for it's own story, although it'd be problematic how they'd managed to integrate the RGB endings. The only way that would work is perhaps a bittersweet/downer ending where the protagonist's team are killed prior to the end of Priority: Earth, sacrificing themselves on a suicide mission to ensure that Shepard's team made it?

[mopotter]

It's a tricky path to tread (which is why I like to hand over money to people who make games and get it right). Choices that may as well be decided by tossing a coin are no choice, and just having ones that you can argue give no better or worse outcomes, just your own preference, aren't much better either (although having some of those is good). In a hypothetical perfect game good decision-making should be just as much of a skill tested as pew-pew ability. It'll always run into the metagaming issue, but IMO that's a price worth paying.

I also hand over money to people who make games that I like  though I have done it a few times and wished I hadn't, but not often.  

 

I don't worry about metagaming, my own or someone else's.  Usually after enough replaying, I'll make a character to tell myself a specific story.  One of my favorite games was Shepard who had started romancing Kaidan and left him on Virmire because it was what needed to be done.  She then met Thane who died in the suicide mission.  She's the only character I had that would pick synthesis.  I try not   edit- I have no idea what I was going to put here.