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[German Soldier]

Why would the CE and HN not be conceived? Adaia and Cyrion still exist, so it makes sense that they'd still have a kid... only you either got brutalized and murdered or taken prisoner (...and probably still brutalized and murdered...) instead of being conscripted. Same with the younger Cousland - there was no Duncan to drag you to safety. You got slaughtered with the rest of your family minus Bryce.

 

I disagree with the analysis which is not accurate for the HN Origin.

 

Duncan doesn't help the HN in the castle  he help only Bryce.The PC meet him at the kitchen near the secret passage at that point the PC does not need him.The only thing he does is blackmail Bryce into turning the PC into a warden.

[Donquijote and 59 others]

I disagree with the analysis which is not accurate for the HN Origin.

 

Duncan doesn't help the HN in the castle  he help only Bryce.The PC meet him at the kitchen near the secret passage at that point the PC does not need him.The only thing he does is blackmail Bryce into turning the PC into a warden.

The HN is either unborn or they abandoned Ferelden off-screen but there is no reason to say they died since they never needed Duncan's Help in the first place unlike all the others Origins.I still recall the HN origin and i remember that Duncan did nothing to support the PC other than follow them through the secret passage that only their family knew.

[In Exile]

Without Duncan the HN doesn't flee.

[German Soldier]

Without Duncan the HN doesn't flee.

There is no reason to think that they waited like imbeciles with Eleanor in the kitchen.

Only Eleanor expressed the desire to remain for Bryce.

[Aren]

 

There is no reason to think that they waited like imbeciles with Eleanor in the kitchen.

Only Eleanor expressed the desire to remain for Bryce.

 

I can reasonably say that all the wardens which were not picked are dead with several proofs provided by the game aside from the HN which is never mentioned and whom fate is ambiguos like the several potential Inquisitors.

[Zero]

The potential City Elf and Mage Warden aren't also mentioned. Though, we could assume the potential Mage died during the Uldred rebellion and the City Elf was killed in the purge of the Alineage (since Vaughan is alive in the other origins. You even met him in the dungeons). 

 

I don't know why I was convinced the HN died in the Korcari Wilds and that the other Origins saved his/her Dog...

[In Exile]

There is no reason to think that they waited like imbeciles with Eleanor in the kitchen.
Only Eleanor expressed the desire to remain for Bryce.

That's not true. Your dialogue options are initially to stay with your family. Duncan tries to tear you away. You can still refuse. The point is clear: you die in that castle. Like the CE dies in the dungeon.

[vertigomez]

I disagree with the analysis which is not accurate for the HN Origin.
 
Duncan doesn't help the HN in the castle  he help only Bryce.The PC meet him at the kitchen near the secret passage at that point the PC does not need him.The only thing he does is blackmail Bryce into turning the PC into a warden.

Whoops, I meant "minus Fergus" not Bryce.

But in any case, there's no reason a HN would abandon their family, either. I mean, you can RP them any way you want, but it's not unreasonable to say that without Duncan around the PC wouldn't have ran away and left their parents to die.

[vertigomez]

The potential City Elf and Mage Warden aren't also mentioned. Though, we could assume the potential Mage died during the Uldred rebellion and the City Elf was killed in the purge of the Alineage (since Vaughan is alive in the other origins. You even met him in the dungeons). 
 
I don't know why I was convinced the HN died in the Korcari Wilds and that the other Origins saved his/her Dog...

Vaughan could have killed the CE, too, or they could have been imprisoned/killed when the guards came (at which point Duncan conscripts you).

I always figured Dog was the HN's. The guy says that Dog used to belong to some young noble who died, right..?

[Dai Grepher]

It's also possible that Eleanor and the younger Cousland died trying to escape, as Duncan was not there to kill his fair share of Howe soldiers. I also recall Duncan saying the castle was surrounded. So they would still need to punch a hole through a line of soldiers to escape. Without Duncan's help, the human noble might not have been able to get through.

[German Soldier]

That's not true. Your dialogue options are initially to stay with your family. Duncan tries to tear you away. You can still refuse. The point is clear: you die in that castle. Like the CE dies in the dungeon.

There is no mention of the HN in the game and also Eleanor expressed the desire to want to save their child and not to want to force them to remain.This NPC death is never mentioned in the whole game and actually Duncan went into the castle for someone else which was Ser Gilmore not even for the HN.

[German Soldier]

It's also possible that Eleanor and the younger Cousland died trying to escape, as Duncan was not there to kill his fair share of Howe soldiers. I also recall Duncan saying the castle was surrounded. So they would still need to punch a hole through a line of soldiers to escape. Without Duncan's help, the human noble might not have been able to get through.

Dai Grepher the game is clear Duncan was not in the castle for you he was there for Ser Gilmore which imply that his travel to Highever is justified even if the HN did not existed.Duncan was not necessary because the HN did not engaged any battle in the secret passage.The castle was surrounded but not the secret passage,in this origin Duncan does nothing more but to blackmail you not save you like it happen for the others Origins.

Tell me the point in which Duncan save the HN?He does not do that that's why this origin is more justified in having resentment toward him.

[Akiza]

It's also possible that Eleanor and the younger Cousland died trying to escape, as Duncan was not there to kill his fair share of Howe soldiers. I also recall Duncan saying the castle was surrounded. So they would still need to punch a hole through a line of soldiers to escape. Without Duncan's help, the human noble might not have been able to get through.

That doesn't make much sense,if the Origin is selected the game play as if the HN is able to handle every enemy until they arrive at the kitchen so i'm not sure why they should be killed just because they were not picked by the player at least up to that point?

 

After that with the secret passage the HN is able to avoid all of the Howe forces since the passage bring this npc far from the castle and there is no fighting at all Duncan is no required and actually Eleanor told to them to leave.

[German Soldier]

 

That doesn't make much sense,if the Origin is selected the game play as if the HN is able to handle every enemy until they arrive at the kitchen so i'm not sure why they should be killed just because they were not picked by the player at least up to that point?

 

After that with the secret passage the HN is able to avoid all of the Howe forces since the passage bring this npc far from the castle and there is no fighting at all Duncan is no required and actually Eleanor told to them to leave.

 

Pretty much this,also i pointed out that there are concrete evidences offered by the game to say that every potential warden is dead minus the HN so it is possible that they did not existed or that they did went into another nation like Hawke.

[Dai Grepher]

Dai Grepher the game is clear Duncan was not in the castle for you he was there for Ser Gilmore which imply that his travel to Highever is justified even if the HN did not existed.

I agree that Highever is the most likely place for Duncan, thus the human noble fits the story best. This is because a local bann held a tournament in Duncan's honor. The HN was at that tourney. So was Ser Jory. Duncan recruited Jory and likely also noticed the HN as well.

If you ask Duncan about what happened to his plan to recruit Ser Gilmore he states that in truth the human noble was always his first choice.

Duncan was not necessary because the HN did not engaged any battle in the secret passage.The castle was surrounded but not the secret passage,in this origin Duncan does nothing more but to blackmail you not save you like it happen for the others Origins.

Duncan saved Bryce and carried him to the larder. Which means the events would have gone differently had Duncan not been there. The servants entrance wasn't guarded, but there were still guards around the castle grounds. I doubt the servant's entrance led so far out as to completely bypass the soldiers.

Tell me the point in which Duncan save the HN?He does not do that that's why this origin is more justified in having resentment toward him.

I never claimed he saved the human noble, just that without Duncan there the HN might not have been able to get through Howe's soldiers. If Duncan is there, he kills some Howe soldiers. Without him, these extra soldiers might have joined the others and made all the difference against the HN.

That doesn't make much sense,if the Origin is selected the game play as if the HN is able to handle every enemy until they arrive at the kitchen so i'm not sure why they should be killed just because they were not picked by the player at least up to that point?

I explained this. Maybe the soldiers surrounding the castle would have been too much to bypass. Or maybe the soldiers Duncan kills in the castle would have caused Howe's forces to overwhelm Highever's forces.

Perhaps without Duncan there the soldiers he would have killed manage to get to Ser Gilmore before the HN can, in which case the doors would be opened for the main invasion force.

After that with the secret passage the HN is able to avoid all of the Howe forces since the passage bring this npc far from the castle and there is no fighting at all Duncan is no required and actually Eleanor told to them to leave.

We don't see any fighting, but that doesn't mean there wasn't any. I'm not claiming there definitely was, but there could have been.

Pretty much this,also i pointed out that there are concrete evidences offered by the game to say that every potential warden is dead minus the HN so it is possible that they did not existed or that they did went into another nation like Hawke.

Maybe the HN didn't exist, maybe he did. The only origins I think have an origin character who lived are the human and elf mages. If the Amell is sent to the tower, then the Surana was sent to a different Circle tower. And vice versa.

[Zero]

Vaughan could have killed the CE, too, or they could have been imprisoned/killed when the guards came (at which point Duncan conscripts you).

 

Well, the City Elf can enter/escape Vaughan's house in their Origin story because Duncan gave them his sword and crossbow. But without those weapons, the City Elf has no chance to go around to be beating guards and threatening Vaughan. 

 

In those cases the Male City Elf is forced to either do nothing but "wait for the best" like the other elves (likely dying in the subsequent purge of the Alienage Howe pulls out to justify "Vaughan's death" and his promotion to Arl of Denerim; or sold to the Tevinter slavers like his father, Cyrion); or being killed trying to rescue his bride without weapons (Nelaros' case). The Female City Elf, without weapons... best not to think about it. I'm glad I chose her as my main canon (and killed Vaughan).

 

In whatever scenario we know Soris was captured and is in jail by the time the Landsmeet is about to happen, and that means something really nasty happened to the City Elf in those stories s/he isn't the Chosen One.

 

 

I always figured Dog was the HN's. The guy says that Dog used to belong to some young noble who died, right..?

 

I thought the same, but it seems you get the quest to save a Mabari Hound even if you're the Human Noble.

 

 

 

Dai Grepher the game is clear Duncan was not in the castle for you he was there for Ser Gilmore which imply that his travel to Highever is justified even if the HN did not existed.Duncan was not necessary because the HN did not engaged any battle in the secret passage.The castle was surrounded but not the secret passage,in this origin Duncan does nothing more but to blackmail you not save you like it happen for the others Origins.

Tell me the point in which Duncan save the HN?He does not do that that's why this origin is more justified in having resentment toward him.

 

 

In fact Duncan was there for the Human Noble. Ser Gilmore won the tournament offered to Duncan and is a possibly recruit to the Grey Wardens, but if you take the time to talk with Duncan, he says he was there for you all the time. Bryce Cousland opposes the idea (as the guy is Genre Savvy and wants an heir should the Battle of Ostagar goes wrong —that's what happens—), and that's why Duncan don't use the Right of Conscription.

[Tidus]

At the victory whoop de do your warden meets  Fergus and he thanks you for killing Howe so, apparently all of his family is dead.

 

 

I  fully agree Duncan black mailed Bryce into allowing his son/daughter  to join the Grey.

 

 

However,if you're stubborn  and refuse to join Duncan will conscript young Cousland.

 

I love raising  a fuss about joining and make Duncan conscript my character. The Dalish Elf can put up quite a fuss.

[Qis]

I disagree with the analysis which is not accurate for the HN Origin.

 

Duncan doesn't help the HN in the castle  he help only Bryce.The PC meet him at the kitchen near the secret passage at that point the PC does not need him.The only thing he does is blackmail Bryce into turning the PC into a warden.

 

Duncan save Bryce, it's in the dialogue in the kitchen chamber

 

PC : "Thanks for saving my father"

Duncan : "I doubt i saved him"

 

Means if Duncan is not there, Bryce dead got killed before even going into the chamber, and the whole family slaughtered mercilessly.

 

Also, the reason Bryce call the PC is to meet Duncan

 

"There is another reason i call for you...guards, sent Duncan in..."

 

Howe become uneasy with Duncan appearance, because he is clueless of his appearance, and that might effect the whole thing...Howe might be just attack Bryce sooner. Howe must recalculate his plan because of Duncan is there...

[Sifr]

I agree that Highever is the most likely place for Duncan, thus the human noble fits the story best. This is because a local bann held a tournament in Duncan's honor. The HN was at that tourney. So was Ser Jory. Duncan recruited Jory and likely also noticed the HN as well.

 

The Mage Origin however is more useful for Duncan in terms of the story, as it allows him to both seek a Warden with magical ability and to convince the Circle to send more mages to Ostagar for the King's Army, since they are in need of more firepower against the Darkspawn.

 

Of course, it's possible that there were already enough Warden mages at Ostagar and Duncan didn't feel the need to recruit another. Or that regardless of the Origin, that Duncan briefly stopped at the tower to convince Greagoir or Irving to lend them more mages to aid in the fight, in which case Duncan hitting up the Circle on his way from Highever (or even Orzammar) works just as wel.

[Dai Grepher]

The Mage Origin however is more useful for Duncan in terms of the story, as it allows him to both seek a Warden with magical ability and to convince the Circle to send more mages to Ostagar for the King's Army, since they are in need of more firepower against the Darkspawn.

True, but if he was at Highever first, he may have missed the point at which the mage helps or exposes Jowan.

Of course, it's possible that there were already enough Warden mages at Ostagar and Duncan didn't feel the need to recruit another. Or that regardless of the Origin, that Duncan briefly stopped at the tower to convince Greagoir or Irving to lend them more mages to aid in the fight, in which case Duncan hitting up the Circle on his way from Highever (or even Orzammar) works just as wel.

Makes sense to stop there while traveling from Highever. Perhaps he did. In the human noble's case, there is a mage called "Circle Mage" who joins the party when taking on Ishal. This same mage can also be seen in the Mage origin story. Maybe that mage gets recruited.

The only problem is, what about a Dalish? I don't see Duncan traveling to the Circle first in that case. He would want to get to Ostagar as fast as possible so that the Dalish might be saved by the Joining. The Circle would also be far out of their way in that case, and I think the Circle Mage will show up for a Dalish...

Or maybe not since Dog wouldn't be in the party. I haven't played either of the elves yet, so I can't confirm.

[Dai Grepher]

I thought the same, but it seems you get the quest to save a Mabari Hound even if you're the Human Noble.

Plus there's no way the HN's Dog would survive Highever.

In fact Duncan was there for the Human Noble. Ser Gilmore won the tournament offered to Duncan and is a possibly recruit to the Grey Wardens, but if you take the time to talk with Duncan, he says he was there for you all the time.

Was it said that Ser Gilmore won the tournament? I don't remember that. I only know Dairren said the HN beat him in sparring match, and Ser Jory said he won the Grand Melee. But I don't remember Ser Gilmore being involved in the tourney at all.

In fact... I think Duncan even said he only heard about Ser Gilmore because Bryce recommended him.

[In Exile]

There is no mention of the HN in the game and also Eleanor expressed the desire to want to save their child and not to want to force them to remain.This NPC death is never mentioned in the whole game and actually Duncan went into the castle for someone else which was Ser Gilmore not even for the HN.

That's a lie. Duncan is clearly there for you - he tells Cousland Sr. he will respect his wishes but he very much wants to sell you on it. And he recruits you as a GW anyway, by conscription if he had to, once the Couslands fall.

[Dai Grepher]

^It's a mistake, not necessarily a lie. You only hear Duncan admit this if you ask "What about Ser Gilmore?", which German Soldier might not have done. So it's possible to miss it.

[German Soldier]

Duncan saved Bryce and carried him to the larder. Which means the events would have gone differently had Duncan not been there. The servants entrance wasn't guarded, but there were still guards around the castle grounds. I doubt the servant's entrance led so far out as to completely bypass the soldiers.


I never claimed he saved the human noble, just that without Duncan there the HN might not have been able to get through Howe's soldiers. If Duncan is there, he kills some Howe soldiers. Without him, these extra soldiers might have joined the others and made all the difference against the HN.


I explained this. Maybe the soldiers surrounding the castle would have been too much to bypass. Or maybe the soldiers Duncan kills in the castle would have caused Howe's forces to overwhelm Highever's forces.

Duncan is just one person he could not have make any difference in fact he did nothing and there are still soldiers of the Cousland family that may help the HN until they reach the passage.It is Ser Gilmore the one who help the PC not Duncan.

[In Exile]

^It's a mistake, not necessarily a lie. You only hear Duncan admit this if you ask "What about Ser Gilmore?", which German Soldier might not have done. So it's possible to miss it.

 

No, I mean, Duncan lies to the extent he gives the impression he's there for Ser Gilmore. I didn't mean to imply the poster lies. What I meant to say was: "Duncan was lying when he indicated he wasn't there for Cousland Jr."