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[Deadly dwarf]

Ironically Loghain is the only one that doesn't betray you no matter if your approval is low.

 

Of course, the thing to remember is that Loghain is someone you can recruit only late in the game.  All along, he's had the same objective as you:  defeat the Blight.  His problem is that he thought he could do it without the Wardens.  After you recruit him, that common objective remains but now he has the benefit of hindsight to know his mistakes after Ostagar.  He holds some grudges, but knows he has to obey orders to defeat the Blight.  That, after all, is the only thing that remains at that point in the game. 

[Fuyin]

Of course, the thing to remember is that Loghain is someone you can recruit only late in the game. All along, he's had the same objective as you: defeat the Blight. His problem is that he thought he could do it without the Wardens. After you recruit him, that common objective remains but now he has the benefit of hindsight to know his mistakes after Ostagar. He holds some grudges, but knows he has to obey orders to defeat the Blight. That, after all, is the only thing that remains at that point in the game.

Alistair's objective was to defeat the Blight too abd look at what happened... He was too selfish to let his personal problems aside for one minute and left the warden even if romanced.

[MichaelN7]

Loghain is pretty obvious.

 

Leliana technically betrayed Orlais, but unknowingly, and once she DID know, she tried to set it right.

 

Zevran is also pretty obvious, but the determining factor of whether it remains one-sided or a double-cross is you.

 

Wynn never really betrays anyone.  Yes, she is technically an abomination, but only in "form" (spirit and person in one body), NOT "function" (kill everything)

 

Ogren I don't see as a traitor, because he's not really loyal to any one thing in particular.  If anything he was betrayed, first by Orzammar (to a degree) and then by Branka (wholesale)

 

Sten is a traitor at first, but due to the idiosyncracies of the Qun (from our perspective), he can potentially NOT be a traitor if you find his lost sword.

 

Alistair is much like Wynn, in that he's really not a traitor at all.  He never actually completed the Templar training (i.e. he never took lyrium), so he can't betray an organization he was never fully part of.  And he's also the one who always stands by the Grey Wardens, UNLESS you take on Loghain, in which he betrays the Wardens, but ONLY because you forced his hand.

I know of a very specific circumstance where Alistair does not become a drunk and Loghain is spared, but it's very particular and I don't really care for it in my playthroughs.

 

Morrigan is a traitor "by default", due to her "look out for number 1" mentality and training under Flemeth.  To clarify, she's only loyal to herself and knowledge, everything else be dipped in hot molasses.  Frankly, only a Warden who romances her (even more so if they have the god-baby together) has any real shot of influencing that aspect of her.

 

So, in a metaphysical way, you, the Warden, can have Morrigan betray herself, or at least who she WAS, through the dialogue and interaction.

 

And of course, Dog is Dog, your ever-faithful friend and companion.

[German Soldier]

Well, this video says otherwise:

https://www.youtube....h?v=0ocYKhigiYc

This video is from warden Alistair who remained a warden in DAO and not from drunk Alistair.

[German Soldier]

Snip

I don't know what you meant when you said forcing Alistair's hand?Nothing was forced he simply was unable to accept that choice.

Morrigan is the same in DAI regardless of what you do with 90% of the same dialogues and during the quest of the well of sorrow she show her usual nature once again.

[Heimerdinger]

Morrigan is a traitor "by default", due to her "look out for number 1" mentality and training under Flemeth.  To clarify, she's only loyal to herself and knowledge, everything else be dipped in hot molasses.  Frankly, only a Warden who romances her (even more so if they have the god-baby together) has any real shot of influencing that aspect of her.

 

Being selfish is not the same as being a traitor, you seem to be confusing these two terms. No one can be a traitor "by default", there is nothing to betray if you never pledged loyalty to anything other than your own self interests. Morrigan came along to fight darkspawn aka throw spells at them, which she does indeed. She is not there to be the warden's vassal or personal arselicker, that much is made clear from the start. She later reveals her own plan to preserve the Old God soul, to which the Warden may agree with or refuse, if refused Morrigan leaves, it's not like she's under any oath to stay anyway. None of these actions fall under the betrayal category.

[Aren]

Ironically Loghain is the only one that doesn't betray you no matter if your approval is low.

The writers thought that it was a good idea to keep him quiet after all the problems he caused up to that point otherwise he would have been totally irredeemable.

[Domakir]

That, after all, is the only thing that remains at that point in the game. 

And yet Alistair...

[Domakir]

The writers thought that it was a good idea to keep him quiet after all the problems he caused up to that point otherwise he would have been totally irredeemable.

And if not it would have been easy to remind him who beat him at the Landsmeet.

[Donquijote and 59 others]

Being selfish is not the same as being a traitor, you seem to be confusing these two terms. No one can be a traitor "by default", there is nothing to betray if you never pledged loyalty to anything other than your own self interests. Morrigan came along to fight darkspawn aka throw spells at them, which she does indeed. She is not there to be the warden's vassal or personal arselicker, that much is made clear from the start. She later reveals her own plan to preserve the Old God soul, to which the Warden may agree with or refuse, if refused Morrigan leaves, it's not like she's under any oath to stay anyway. None of these actions fall under the betrayal category.

Dear  Morrigan's defender i will remind you that this woman deceived the PC from the very start of the adventure for an entire year  and inserted herself into the group to do her bidding,used them against Flemeth with deception and didn't keep her word on the first grimoire and  even stole their items.

Several years later even dare to deceive and steal again from  others people and all these things are indeed acts of betrayals.

Defend her all you like that will not change facts  since what she did it match perfectly the meaning of the word which is in fact a dialogue in that Dlc.

[Donquijote and 59 others]

And if not it would have been easy to remind him who beat him at the Landsmeet.

I wanted to  use the dog at the Landsmeet but Eamon said that it was not possible.

[Heimerdinger]

 

Dear  Morrigan's defender i will remind you that this woman deceived the PC from the very start of the adventure  and inserted herself into the group to do her bidding,used them against Flemeth with deception and didn't keep her word on the first grimoire and  even stole their items.

Several years later even dare to deceive and steal again from  others people and all these things are indeed acts of betrayals.

Defend her all you like that will not stop me to give her what she deserve.

 

 

Morrigan is not the kind of character that needs defending, but for the sake of discussion I will point out that she made only one promise to the warden: that she will tag along and be useful. She fights, she crafts, she cooks, she can even save the warden's life if an agreement is reached. Anything beyond that is open game, everyone has their own interests.

[Donquijote and 59 others]

Morrigan is not the kind of character that needs defending, but for the sake of discussion I will point out that she made only one promise to the warden: that she will tag along and be useful. 

and you are very much wrong since she said that she would have helped the warden vs the blight for the first grimoire yet she left.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Traitor is a term i would say is used very loosely.For an example Wynne was considered a traitor by some mages just because she didn't want circle to leave chantry despite she never held position that they should.

 

Technically most of them could be called a traitor but most of them have very good reasoning behind it.For an example Zevran could be called a traitor because he left and went against the crows yet considering how crows treated him and what they would to do to him being loyal would be stupid.

[Aren]

Traitor is a term i would say is used very loosely.For an example Wynne was considered a traitor by some mages just because she didn't want circle to leave chantry despite she never held position that they should.

 

Technically most of them could be called a traitor but most of them have very good reasoning behind it.For an example Zevran could be called a traitor because he left and went against the crows yet considering how crows treated him and what they would to do to him being loyal would be stupid.

This wasn't about factions i suppose but was about companions vs the Warden during DAO.

[Illegitimus]

and you are very much wrong since she said that she would have helped the warden vs the blight for the first grimoire yet she left.

 

You refused the help she wanted to give at the end, and she made no promises about what form that help would take or how long it would last.   She merely told you that a reason to give her the grimoire is that it would make her more capable and therefore potentially more useful.  

[TheKomandorShepard]

This wasn't about factions i suppose but was about companions vs the Warden during DAO.

My explanation framed both as in most cases you must do something that companion deems unforgivable in order for them to leave or turn on you.Only exceptions are potentially Zevran and Morrigan.

[German Soldier]

You refused the help she wanted to give at the end, and she made no promises about what form that help would take or how long it would last.   She merely told you that a reason to give her the grimoire is that it would make her more capable and therefore potentially more useful.  

You may consider it help but that's completely ignore anyone else perspective. Her "help" wasn't an help at all for my PoV but just a way to use me.

 

The very fact that she inserted herself into my group to carry a secret plan to do her bidding by using the PC resources is a form of betrayal in fact the dialogue is even in Wh and this thing of promises ecc..seems nothing more but a repetitve straw man argument.

 

 

Even if she is more capable with the Grimoire that means nothing if she abandon the warden and also you are wrong since in that dialogue she said that she would have aid the warden better instead she left which prove that her word means nothing.

[German Soldier]

My explanation framed both as in most cases you must do something that companion deems unforgivable in order for them to leave or turn on you.Only exceptions are potentially Zevran and Morrigan.

I agree in fact Zevran may turn on you just because he doesn't like you enough (+23 approval) and not because you did something wrong to him.

Same with Morrigan because she doesn't like what you decided she leave.

[Zero]

This video is from warden Alistair who remained a warden in DAO and not from drunk Alistair.

 

He mentions he was "exiled" more than twice in that conversation. Non-exiled Alistair never mentions the "exile" stuff.

 

[German Soldier]

He mentions he was "exiled" more than twice in that conversation. Non-exiled Alistair never mentions the "exile" stuff.

 

 

Exiled by Anora after the blight not exiled at the Landsmeet.

[Donquijote and 59 others]

 

 

 

The very fact that she inserted herself into my group to carry a secret plan to do her bidding by using the PC resources is a form of betrayal in fact the dialogue is even in Wh and this thing of promises ecc..seems nothing more but a repetitve straw man argument.

 

 

 

Exactly, that thing only is enough to define it a betrayal which is the dialogue of WH under the "you attempted to use me" against whom Morrigan can't say nothing because is the truth all she had to say was some pathetic excuse in which said that it wasn't easy for her which means nothing because still she did that.As i said she want an archdemon ok no problem but if she try to use me for that she will pay.

[Bayonet Hipshot]

Being selfish is not the same as being a traitor, you seem to be confusing these two terms. No one can be a traitor "by default", there is nothing to betray if you never pledged loyalty to anything other than your own self interests. Morrigan came along to fight darkspawn aka throw spells at them, which she does indeed. She is not there to be the warden's vassal or personal arselicker, that much is made clear from the start. She later reveals her own plan to preserve the Old God soul, to which the Warden may agree with or refuse, if refused Morrigan leaves, it's not like she's under any oath to stay anyway. None of these actions fall under the betrayal category.

 

Morrigan is not the kind of character that needs defending, but for the sake of discussion I will point out that she made only one promise to the warden: that she will tag along and be useful. She fights, she crafts, she cooks, she can even save the warden's life if an agreement is reached. Anything beyond that is open game, everyone has their own interests.

 

So she leaves the Warden when he or she is going to face the toughest battle of their life ? That's not very useful now isn't it ?

 

The problem with preserving the Old God's soul is that she never gives the Warden a good reason to do it. At that point in the story, the Warden is either going to die anyway, either to the Archdemon or to the Calling. Its either dying in the Deep Roads or turning into a Broodmother (if the Warden is female and gets caught by Darkspawn) or getting killed when killing the Archdemon.

 

Additionally, Old Gods are bad news even before they became Archdemon. Many Elven slaves were sacrificed to walk the Fade physically because that was what the Old Gods told the ancient Tevinter magisters to do - To seek entry to the Golden City. Later, this action that was prompted by the whispering of the Old Gods led to the unleashing of the Blight and subsequent discrimination of mages everywhere as well as the destruction of the Dwarven Empire.

 

Last but not the least, throughout Origins, we see multiple examples of the lack of empathy and care displayed by Morrigan. We also learn of her abusive upbriging. You think its a good idea to make a woman like this the mother of someone with the soul of an Old God ? Yes, in Inquisition we see that she has mellowed but in Origins, the Warden will have no idea that she could turn out that way.

 

Oh and by the way, white knighting fictional women is really pathetic.

[Illegitimus]

 

You may consider it help but that's completely ignore anyone else perspective. Her "help" wasn't an help at all for my PoV but just a way to use me.

 

 

I care about as much about your character's point of view as I do Loghain's.  I can create a character who would call Dog a traitor because he tried to befriend Morrigan.  But he'd be wrong.  That has nothing to do with real treason.  I

[German Soldier]

I care about as much about your character's point of view as I do Loghain's.  I can create a character who would call Dog a traitor because he tried to befriend Morrigan.  But he'd be wrong.  That has nothing to do with real treason.  I

What you said doesn't make sense it's not even a statement with coherence I have to presume that you are just grasping at straws at this point.