241 réponses à ce sujet

[maia0407]

On the other hand, I don't think we should celebrate them simply writing straight white people out of the squad.

 

As much as that may sound ridiculous at a glance there was only 1 straight white male squadmate in all 3 games and I'm assuming that Zaeed is straight when I say that(which is technically not confirmed to my knowledge). I can give you 1.5 because Kaidan pulled a "I'm Bi, you just didn't ask" on us in the third game. It's entirely possible to have a Mass Effect 3 squad with zero white men on it.

 

The solution to years of straight white male being in the spotlight isn't to turn around and do the reverse. If we're going to say we should include everybody, let's actually apply that to everybody.

I don't think anyone is asking for them to be written out. But, let's be honest, a bit of over-representation of minorities is hardly a problem in an industry flooded with straight white dude characters and protagonists. 

[maia0407]

Next thread: why isn't default Ryder a transexual?

That... that would warrant my blueberry pie with homemade crust. (And, if any of you go to the gutter with that statement..... )

[Seboist]

I'm going to fall over dead. Right now. This is the first comment of yours that I've unblocked that I actually agree with partially.

 

But, yes, I agree, the space terminator was a travesty. I had sympathy embarrassment for Bioware when termidork showed up.   Look at that, ME2 bringing people together.

True, just don't expect me to invite you to my place to cook you something.

[yolobastien6412]

Isn't the guy in the trailer also Ryder? We just didn't see his face yet. Or did we?...

[maia0407]

True, just don't expect me to invite you to my place to cook you something.

Agreed. I'd be a bit scared of 'restaurant revenge' treatment anyway. 

[FKA_Servo]

As much as that may sound ridiculous at a glance there was only 1 straight white male squadmate in all 3 games and I'm assuming that Zaeed is straight when I say that(which is technically not confirmed to my knowledge).

 

I finally found it, and it's still funny.

[Cyonan]

That would be reverse racism.

 

There is no such thing as reverse racism, only racism.

 

but I don't believe anybody in this thread is being racist.

 

I don't think anyone is asking for them to be written out. But, let's be honest, a bit or over-representation of minorities is hardly a problem in an industry flooded with straight white dude characters and protagonists. 

 

I find it's still a good idea to ensure that statements about including everybody actually apply to everybody =P

 

I'm not saying you specifically, but I find all too often other people who argue for this sort of thing typically like to pick and choose who they want their statements to apply to.

 

It's kind of like how you say people should speak up about bad portrayals of women in games. I don't think anybody specifically asked for the consistent butt shots of Miranda, but many of us also didn't complain when they did it. The reason why these things happen is because nobody is complaining about them.

[yolobastien6412]

Next thread: why isn't default Ryder a transexual?

Follow-up thread; why isn't Ryder an alien? (w8 we already have that)

in a chain of threads, this happens:

Why isn't Ryder a reaper?

[Gothfather]

I was expecting that kind of argument, ok cuck, now you can get out of the thread, seems like i touched the wound.

yeah you touched a wound.. your own. Talk about insecurity. Man up.

[yolobastien6412]

There is no such thing as reverse racism, only racism.

 

/cut

Isn't reverse racism when you are nice to a particular race? Doesn't mean you don't like or support other races, but you hold one above others I guess. Damn, I accidentally made Nazi propaganda.

[Seboist]

Agreed. I'd be a bit scared of 'restaurant revenge' treatment anyway. 

Feel free to join me for lunch at Taco Bell instead,but you're gonna have to pay for your own chalupa though, as women I'm not involved (literally) get no free lunches from me.

[maia0407]

There is no such thing as reverse racism, only racism.

 

but I don't believe anybody in this thread is being racist.

 

 

I find it's still a good idea to ensure that statements about including everybody actually apply to everybody =P

 

I'm not saying you specifically, but I find all too often other people who argue for this sort of thing typically like to pick and choose who they want their statements to apply to.

 

It's kind of like how you say people should speak up about bad portrayals of women in games. I don't think anybody specifically asked for the consistent butt shots of Miranda, but many of us also didn't complain when they did it. The reason why these things happen is because nobody is complaining about them.

 

Agreed on the reverse racism thing. You can't have your very own 'ism unless you also lack power.

 

I think we're pretty much in agreement that straight white guys shouldn't be written out. I'm just not seeing that as being a danger. 

 

Feel free to join me for lunch at Taco Bell instead,but you're gonna have to pay for your own chalupa though, as women I'm not involved (literally) get no free lunches from me.

I sort of miss Taco Bell. Dammit, now I'm craving something I can't have. I think this was planned.   

[Draining Dragon]

Agreed on the reverse racism thing. You can't have your very own 'ism unless you also lack power.

The reason reverse racism isn't a thing is because prejudice against white people is just plain old racism. It has nothing to do with "power."

[maia0407]

The reason reverse racism isn't a thing is because prejudice against white people is just plain old racism. It has nothing to do with "power."

No, it's simply prejudice. Racism has the added component of power to distinguish it from prejudice. 

[Cyonan]

Isn't reverse racism when you are nice to a particular race? Doesn't mean you don't like or support other races, but you hold one above others I guess. Damn, I accidentally made Nazi propaganda.

 

Well any sort of "ism" is just the belief that one group is inherently superior to another based on gender, race, etc.

 

So favourtism of one group which would be the literal meaning of "reverse racism" is still technically just racism against everybody else. If I think white people are better than everybody else simply because we're white, I'm racist against everybody else. Although most people use "reverse racism" to describe what is just racism against white people.

 

Agreed on the reverse racism thing. You can't have your very own 'ism unless you also lack power.

 

I think we're pretty much in agreement that straight white guys shouldn't be written out. I'm just not seeing that as being a danger. 

 

Probably not, but I like my universal statements of inclusion to be universal =P

 

I think what we should be celebrating is games like Overwatch. Partially because it's an amazing game that i'll take any opening to mention, but also because they have a very diverse cast of characters. They even have an ape with an arc lightning gun and a jet pack who loves peanut butter.

[Spirit Vanguard]

Bioware seems to dislike blondes though. They even wrote in their lore that most blondes have been bred out, cuz science LOL.

In Dragon Age there are blondes everywhere. Even many of the main characters have lighter hair tones. Apparently light-hair can exist freely in fantasy.

[Draining Dragon]

No, it's simply prejudice. Racism has the added component of power to distinguish it from prejudice.

No, it doesn't. Racial prejudice is racism, pure and simple. "Prejudice plus power" is just a meme that was invented to justify bigoted behavior against men and majority groups.

[Seboist]

I sort of miss Taco Bell. Dammit, now I'm craving something I can't have. I think this was planned.   

 

I'm sure you'll be quite envious after learning that I go there at least once a week.

 

I think what we should be celebrating is games like Overwatch. Partially because it's an amazing game that i'll take any opening to mention, but also because they have a very diverse cast of characters. They even have an ape with an arc lightning gun and a jet pack who loves peanut butter.

Which gels perfectly with the lore OW as meant to be an international organization, but above all else, Overwatch(the game) is hella fun. It's the first multiplayer only game that I've been this passionate about since ages.

 

Overwatch 

[maia0407]

No, it doesn't. Racial prejudice is racism, pure and simple. "Prejudice plus power" is just a meme that was invented to justify bigoted behavior against men and majority groups.

It wasn't just invented to keep the white man down. It's a definition to explain the structural oppression that minorities experience. Pretending like a black person's dislike of white people has the same effect on the white person as white person's dislike of black people is just blindness. One group has the power to oppress while the other doesn't. 

[Draining Dragon]

It wasn't just invented to keep the white man down. It's a definition to explain the structural oppression that minorities experience. Pretending like a black person's dislike of white people has the same effect on the white person as white person's dislike of black people is just blindness. One group has the power to oppress while the other doesn't.

What you're describing is a specific form of racism called institutional racism. Racial prejudice is racism. Racial prejudice engaged in by social and political institutions is institutional racism.

[straykat]

I'm not following "they would actually talk about games more if they cared". What does that mean? Are you saying that discussing social justice issues within gaming means that you don't care about games? Again, that's coming off as telling people what they can care about. 

 

You didn't see any issues with the way Jacob was depicted? Would you like to see more POC's in games? Don't feel like you have to answer as these questions are just rhetorical. I don't want to derail the thread. 

 

I don't see  'slip-ups occasionally' in regards to women in gaming. I see very problematic depictions of women throughout the industry. Gaming companies are starting to take notice thanks to all the protest. The time to shut-up isn't when we're gaining traction no matter how much people would like to have their games go back to the status quo. 

 

I'm nearing 40 as well and my life lessons have taught me something very different from you. I don't believe in staying silent as being silent has never brought about change. I'm not going to pipe down about injustices as I want to see gaming improved. 

 

I didn't say to stay silent. But people who can't talk about anything else obviously don't care about games. If you're not one of them, then this  conversation is kind of over...? I guess?

 

I thought Jacob was boring, but I didn't even know how bad the romance was until I read stuff here. And even then, it's funny in how awful it is.

 

Yeah, I mostly see slip ups. People can be stupid sometimes, without being viewed as villains or part of some cabal or sadistic system. I've seen real, violent racism worth fighting against and games aren't on my list. And it's always worth fighting an immediate problem btw. I'm not some passive, careless person. I have a soft spot for hurt people, or even animals, and I'll jump into action in most cases. I don't want to get killed either, but I hope you get my point.

[SnakeCode]

No, it's simply prejudice. Racism has the added component of power to distinguish it from prejudice. 

 

Hmmm, we have a word for racial based prejudice, if only I could remember what it was...

[straykat]

When i was young, I remember taking a black friend to my house and when he saw my dad... he laughed. My dad is white (I'm half white). He didn't imagine I had a dad who looked like that and he made me feel like **** and said stupid things about it. Needless to say, I wasn't inviting him back.

 

And it was racist. And he was a fellow minority. It wasn't mere "prejudice".

[Seboist]

I didn't say to stay silent. But people who can't talk about anything else obviously don't care about games. If you're not one of them, then this  conversation is kind of over...? I guess?

 

I thought Jacob was boring, but I didn't even know how bad the romance was until I read stuff here. And even then, it's funny in how awful it is.

 

Yeah, I mostly see slip ups. People can be stupid sometimes, without being viewed as villains or part of some cabal or sadistic system. I've seen real, violent racism worth fighting against and games aren't on my list. And it's always worth fighting an immediate problem btw. I'm not some passive, careless person. I have a soft spot for hurt people, or even animals, and I'll jump into action in most cases. I don't want to get killed either, but I hope you get my point.

Jacob serves little purpose other than to be femshep's space mandingo(and a funny one at that, Lol).

[maia0407]

What you're describing is a specific form of racism called institutional racism. Racial prejudice is racism. Racial prejudice engaged in by social and political institutions is institutional racism.

Yes, there is institutional racism. We're in agreement on that point. There is also racism on an individual level. If you live in a society that gives you power by virtue of the way it is set up, you don't experience racism. I don't know why this is so offensive to point out. Acknowledging you have power in some areas bothers people for some reason. At any rate, we're not going to get anywhere if you refuse to acknowledge the effects of the power dynamic inherent in race relations.