663 réponses à ce sujet

[In Exile]

@Xerrai: I actually want them to all be "good" - in the way beings with greater perspective can be "good" even if their actions aren't always about love.

I want the Dalish to have been right about Solas - that he's a trickster and a "devil" - and is trying to get an army convinced the Evanuris are evil so he can finish what he started three thousand years ago and be the single elven god. I want this to be why he liked the "idea" of the Maker - I want him to want to become "the Maker".

Then - with the revelation the Evanuris are "good" (again - in a way that is different than mortals are "good) - and we side with them and put Solas down.
The Evanuris then walk back into the Fade as free entities to guide the elven people to new glories.

That is the story I would tell *shrugs*

That's a pretty lame story.

[TheJediSaint]

No. I actually think what Sten did is much worse - and very much based in the idea that "bas" are things, like someone throwing a tantrum by smashing a vase. As Alistair points out, Sten is remorseful for his loss of control.

I mean. They were just peasants. There are always more peasants. I'm not sure what all the fuss is about.

[Xerrai]

That's a pretty lame story.

Could be worse.

The could make the evanuris "good" and make them directly responsible for the Andrastian faith to Thedas by revealing that Andraste/Shartan was their avatar, for instance. Make it seem that these ancient super-elves are the ultimate good that try and shape every world because modern thedosians are oh so flawed and the elves were oh so perfect. No human mortal could ever accomplish those amazing things, it had to be driven by an ancient elvhen hand. Basically Tolkien level of elffyness x10.

 

But Bioware is generally better than that.

[Nocte ad Mortem]

Could be worse.

The could make the evanuris "good" and make them directly responsible for the Andrastian faith to Thedas by revealing that Andraste/Shartan was their avatar, for instance. Make it seem that these ancient super-elves are the ultimate good that try and shape every world because modern thedosians are oh so flawed and the elves were oh so perfect. No human mortal could ever accomplish those amazing things, it had to be driven by an ancient elvhen hand. Basically Tolkien level of elffyness x10.

 

But Bioware is generally better than that.

I actually wouldn't be surprised if Andraste/Shartan isn't somehow based off of or linked to Mythal/Solas. Flemeth says she was betrayed as Mythal was betrayed and her story was that she was that she left her Bann husband for a poet, the ex-husband tricked her into coming home, killed the poet, imprisoned her. Andraste's story involved betrayal by her husband as a substantial point. Mythal is known to be Elgar'nan's wife. Solas says the other Evanuris killed her, probably including him. I wouldn't be surprised if he wasn't leading them. All of these stories could be easily framed as love triangles with similar figures. I wouldn't be surprised if Andraste either is just a re-imagining of Mythal's story, or maybe she was one of Mythal's past "bodies", like Flemeth. If Andraste had Mythal in her, it would explain why she could do the things she supposedly did.

[SoKoLoV]

I have to say I respect Bioware immensely in the sense that you can actually say "I'm not religious" or "I don't believe in that nonsense". I mean, not many games will take that risk since it's a "Touchy subject" in real life. I also love it that you can read about the Exalted March for example from both sides and can deside for yourself in who is right or who is the "bad guy". I hope they go deeper in the next game and maybe give you the options to for example start a new exalted march against the elves/or the chantry or changes certain laws or even outright forbid/attack a certain religion.

 

Then you have the fate of the Qun aswell with it's own unique elements. I'm still exited to learn more about that aswell. Personally in real life I am not religious at all and don't believe any of it but....if I would be, I would actually like a religion like that of the Dwarves with their Paragons. I like the idea of respecting and even worshipping people who contributed to a certain aspect of life that you can actually prove like a certain Smith for example who invented something that changed a lot about warfare or the history about it. And it's stays relatively simple aswell, you only have the Paragon statues and their description of the Paragon and the Shaperate you keeps the history. 

[Medhia_Nox]

That's a pretty lame story.

 

And it may very well be - but I think Solas is currently a pretty lame story - so there you go.  

 

So, you want Solas to be nuanced and grey (I don't believe he is at all - I believe he's insane) - but the Evanuris have to stay evil baddies?  That's your "cool" story?  

 

For me... the story is in the Dalish.  Their genuine anger turned into ignorant bigotry... their legends twisted and malformed... their entire "truth" turned upside down... and now, them jumping on the bandwagon of a psycho.  

 

I want the Dalish to turn against Solas... and by doing so... become a more nuanced people poised to become genuine participants in the world instead of embittered gypsies so obsessed with their past they forget to make a future.  

 

But - magic boom blast gods flash Micheal Bay story is what we'll get.  

[In Exile]

And it may very well be - but I think Solas is currently a pretty lame story - so there you go.

So, you want Solas to be nuanced and grey (I don't believe he is at all - I believe he's insane) - but the Evanuris have to stay evil baddies? That's your "cool" story?

For me... the story is in the Dalish. Their genuine anger turned into ignorant bigotry... their legends twisted and malformed... their entire "truth" turned upside down... and now, them jumping on the bandwagon of a psycho.

I want the Dalish to turn against Solas... and by doing so... become a more nuanced people poised to become genuine participants in the world instead of embittered gypsies.

But - magic boom blast gods flash Micheal Bay story is what we'll get.

No. I don't think the Evanuris need to be evil. I also don't think Solas is nuanced and grey - he's a racial supremacist plotting mass murder to bring back his ubermensch race. His winning quality is that he's arguably charismatic. Whether or not Solas was a grey-ish character when he tried to overthrow the Evanuris is different from the present plot.

I just like the idea of an uncompromising protagonist willing to make huge sacrifices for the sake of a vision - and old Solas fits that trope well.

I think the Evanuris are a cool concept and the elvhen are interesting - I don't much care for the modern elves. I'd like the Dalish more if they idealized the part of their past where they mattered.

Anyway I doubt DA4 will focus too much on the Solas plot.

[Medhia_Nox]

No. I don't think the Evanuris need to be evil. I also don't think Solas is nuanced and grey - he's a racial supremacist plotting mass murder to bring back his ubermensch race. His winning quality is that he's arguably charismatic. Whether or not Solas was a grey-ish character when he tried to overthrow the Evanuris is different from the present plot.

I just like the idea of an uncompromising protagonist willing to make huge sacrifices for the sake of a vision - and old Solas fits that trope well.

I think the Evanuris are a cool concept and the elvhen are interesting - I don't much care for the modern elves. I'd like the Dalish more if they idealized the part of their past where they mattered.

Anyway I doubt DA4 will focus too much on the Solas plot.

 

That would make me ecstatic.  

[Sah291]

And it may very well be - but I think Solas is currently a pretty lame story - so there you go.  
 
So, you want Solas to be nuanced and grey (I don't believe he is at all - I believe he's insane) - but the Evanuris have to stay evil baddies?  That's your "cool" story?  
 
For me... the story is in the Dalish.  Their genuine anger turned into ignorant bigotry... their legends twisted and malformed... their entire "truth" turned upside down... and now, them jumping on the bandwagon of a psycho.  
 
I want the Dalish to turn against Solas... and by doing so... become a more nuanced people poised to become genuine participants in the world instead of embittered gypsies so obsessed with their past they forget to make a future.  
 
But - magic boom blast gods flash Micheal Bay story is what we'll get.

That would actually be pretty interesting, and also fitting along with with Solas' past as well....as I'm sure some of the ancient elves must have remained loyal to the Evanuris and opposed him, despite his rebellion. It will be strange if the Dalish are all suddenly rejecting their whole religion and the Creators to follow him. Even though he is kind of promising exactly what they say they wanted- the old world and empire back. And yet this is the same person who locked their gods away and betrayed them once before, and may be selling false promises since it isn't clear modern elves would even survive or benefit from this in the end. Is it worth it? Etc.

It was always an intesting conflict of interests to think about, and part of what made the Dalish Inquisitor interesting to me.

On the other hand, if the Dalish oppose him, I don't exactly want to see them go "oh well, so much for that, let's just embrace human culture now and become Andrastian" either, as I kind of feel like that would be a cop out.

Maybe they change and start looking forward and embracing humans, but maybe for the Dalish that means accepting and supporting Morrigan as an ambassador and successor to Mythal, or something along those lines. I really don't know.

[Gervaise]

Um, was anyone else aware that Solas specifically calls the Maker a false god?   Just discovered this for the first time myself over on You Tube.   You only get it if you both have his disapproval and you have accepted the role of Herald.  It occurs after Adamant, which of course proved the whole thing was false but you were encouraged to cover it up and I assume this particular Inquisitor has gone along with that idea.   Solas describes them as a false demi-god: 

 

"Do you enjoy the worship?  Does it make you feel infallible or do you see them as fools, gullible for their belief?"

Then the following dialogue is either:

"So your great Maker will stop anything terrible from happening.  How's that working so far?"

Or

"You are not gaining allies, you are gaining minions.   Sheep driven by one false god to fearfully follow another."

 

I don't feel that this is really showing favouritism to the Andrastrian faith.    It is a pity that the Inquisitor can't say these sorts of things themselves but at least someone acknowledges it.    I've complained in the past that it would be helpful if Solas would say something definitive about the Maker.   Well he does, but only to a false Herald that he doesn't like.    So fair is fair, he destroys your belief if your are a Dalish and he destroys your belief if you are an Andrastrian, just not every time.

 

Of course the Maker could still exist as a detached Creator god but not in any way portrayed by the Chantry.    Still have to stop Solas from destroying the world.   May have to kill him to do so but I'm really going to regret it after these speeches.

[Sah291]

I don't think he was necessarily referring to the Maker there, but to Corypheus and the Inquisitor specifically, and any would be gods in general.. as in, the Inquisitor is herding gullible followers away from one false god (Corypheus) to another (him/herself).

I think he's skeptical of anything claiming to be a god in general though, and doesn't even consider himself to be one. He's expressing his disgust at the Inquisitor setting themselves up as a religious figure and gathering minions.

A real god, to Solas, wouldn't need to prove their power, and would therefore have willing followers, who follow you because you are wise, not slaves or minions who follow out of fear or awe. The Maker may or may not fit that description, depending who you ask. If that is the image the Inquisitor reflects, he probably would reject the Maker as false. He's more open to the idea when speaking to Cassandra, but only on grounds that the Maker appears to respect free will and doesn't meddle unnecessarily.

At any rate, I think Solas is supposed to represent a more non theistic world view... and he is currently being portrayed as a villian and antagonist, so I don't know whether we can count him as an example.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

Solas doesn't believe in the Maker, that's not a secret, he's just angrier about telling you so if he doesn't like you. I don't think that him calling the Maker a false god destroys Andrastianism. Unlike the with a Dalish character, he doesn't have any first hand information about your faith being a lie.

[Gervaise]

The Maker is said to have created everything in the World, even the Blight.   It was his curse on sinful humanity.   Then Chant makes no mention of the creation of Titans, elves or dwarves.    It implies that if there is a Veil it must have been put there by the Maker.     All the teaching about spirits looking across the Veil with envy would suggest that there has always been a barrier to their interaction with the beings on the other side.    Solas likely knows the cause of the Blight and he knows he created the Veil.    He was also the one who imprisoned the false elf gods, yet the Maker is attributed with imprisoning all the false gods.    Why would the Maker bother himself with the Old Gods when he wasn't bothered about dealing with the Evanuris?     There is enough evidence to refute the Maker as presented by the Chantry.   The Maker could still exist as a first cause who created the basic universe that Thedas lies within but not as the Maker taught by the Chantry.

 

It may be reading a bit too much into his words but given the sarcasm with which he says "your great Maker" he certainly doesn't believe in the Chantry image of him.   Which is why the alternative "false god" could just as easily refer to the Maker as Corypheus.  

 

Basically I was just glad and relieved to find at least some one in the game world acknowledge the ridiculous mental gymnastics that were going on in the minds of the Chantry stalwarts throughout the game and the way they continued to promote belief in the Herald after Adamant, knowing it was false.     It is just a pity it only occurs under certain conditions.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

Pretty sure the Maker is only attributed with imprisoning the Old Gods. Specifically because Dumat supposedly turned the hearts of mankind away from him. The elven gods play no role in Chantry lore and mythology.

[ModernAcademic]

It's hilarious how Solas is supposed to be a wise elf wanderer with a deeply insightful philosophy of life developed after years of astral journeys into the Fade in search of knowledge ...only to turn out as an arrogant elf with supremacist delusions, prone to lying and with no tact or respect whatsoever for different cultures.

 

"Dwarves are idiots when it comes to spirits. Blah,blah, blah, no sensitivity to magic (idiotic elf forgot all about the Titans, didn't he?) You don't know what you're talking about, Child of the Stone. Leave Cole's fate to me. I'm a pro at all things Fade-related, UNLIKE YOU." 

 

No, Solas, I don't think so. Varric, show him how it's done.

[Seraphim24]

Solas is definitely not religious, he's a panic-stricken fundamentalist in a sense, because he's so attached to what was, or what might be, or what should be... but pretty much has equal disdain to all kinds of groups and their "ideas" basically. 

 

To put it in heavily blunt he's a highly controlling person spinning out of control being unable to define the present or his relationship to it. 

 

On a more personal level, I don't not like Solas not because he's a control freak to compensate for his lack of real control or any of those other things. 

 

I hate him because like so many people in this world they thought containing knowledge or the elements of power was to their advantage, even if they didn't understand it themselves, "trade secret" kind of thing... I've always hated having to scratch and claw for people to tell me things, because I was always so much more capable of understanding whatever it was than they ever were. 

 

Instead, we have to listen to him waste his breath on us about the how things were in the past, instead of letting us form our own interpretation, based on a competing version of the facts. 

[phoray]

Mythal caring to stop the Blight might be about just stopping a world-class threat.
Though her knowledge on the Old Gods' souls, combined with the fen'harel reveal and his actions, and the myth of the Forgotten ones being sealed underground support the theory that the latter might be the Old Gods.

Brainstorm. What if Mythal used blood magic to overwhelm the Titans? And created the Blight, blood magic consequences #Last Flight Griffin extinction

[The Elder King]

Anyway I doubt DA4 will focus too much on the Solas plot.

I recall reading some people' post saying that Weekes/Bioware stated DA4 will end Solas' plot. In the case this is true I doubt his role will be marginal.
Even if this isn't true though, sooner or later the plot will come to conclusion.

[In Exile]

It's hilarious how Solas is supposed to be a wise elf wanderer with a deeply insightful philosophy of life developed after years of astral journeys into the Fade in search of knowledge ...only to turn out as an arrogant elf with supremacist delusions, prone to lying and with no tact or respect whatsoever for different cultures.

"Dwarves are idiots when it comes to spirits. Blah,blah, blah, no sensitivity to magic (idiotic elf forgot all about the Titans, didn't he?) You don't know what you're talking about, Child of the Stone. Leave Cole's fate to me. I'm a pro at all things Fade-related, UNLIKE YOU."

No, Solas, I don't think so. Varric, show him how it's done.

He views the dwarves as refuse. He puts it in a nice way but his line (the severed arm of a once mighty hero) suggests a dim view. Plus, he's not actually wrong - whatever the Titans are in setting.

I don't think we're supposed to see Solas as wise, but rather prideful.

[Xilizhra]

It's hilarious how Solas is supposed to be a wise elf wanderer with a deeply insightful philosophy of life developed after years of astral journeys into the Fade in search of knowledge ...only to turn out as an arrogant elf with supremacist delusions, prone to lying and with no tact or respect whatsoever for different cultures.

 

"Dwarves are idiots when it comes to spirits. Blah,blah, blah, no sensitivity to magic (idiotic elf forgot all about the Titans, didn't he?) You don't know what you're talking about, Child of the Stone. Leave Cole's fate to me. I'm a pro at all things Fade-related, UNLIKE YOU." 

 

No, Solas, I don't think so. Varric, show him how it's done.

He's not wrong about the spirit issue.

[Iakus]

He views the dwarves as refuse. He puts it in a nice way but his line (the severed arm of a once mighty hero) suggests a dim view. Plus, he's not actually wrong - whatever the Titans are in setting.

I don't think we're supposed to see Solas as wise, but rather prideful.

He is well-named

[Iakus]

It's hilarious how Solas is supposed to be a wise elf wanderer with a deeply insightful philosophy of life developed after years of astral journeys into the Fade in search of knowledge ...only to turn out as an arrogant elf with supremacist delusions, prone to lying and with no tact or respect whatsoever for different cultures.

 

"Dwarves are idiots when it comes to spirits. Blah,blah, blah, no sensitivity to magic (idiotic elf forgot all about the Titans, didn't he?) You don't know what you're talking about, Child of the Stone. Leave Cole's fate to me. I'm a pro at all things Fade-related, UNLIKE YOU." 

 

No, Solas, I don't think so. Varric, show him how it's done.

Solas is very knowledgeable in his own areas of expertise.

 

But he is also extremely arrogant, and thinks he's got the whole world figured out.

 

So yeah, he knows a lot , but not as much as he thinks he does

[TevinterSupremacist]

 define the present or his relationship to it. 

I think Solas defined his relationship to the present in a very effective and clear way.

"Me no like you."

"Me make you go bye bye."

[straykat]

 

 

But he is also extremely arrogant, and thinks he's got the whole world figured out.

 

 

He's as ignorant as Corypheus. 

[Seraphim24]

I think Solas defined his relationship to the present in a very effective and clear way.

"Me no like you."

"Me make you go bye bye."

 

Except he hasn't done that, he just wants to threaten that to make him sound big, he's all talk.