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[Nocte ad Mortem]

The fact that the Tamassran provide sexual services has been a known fact about the Qunari for a while. When you ask Iron Bull, he talks about this and confirms it very clearly. They look at it as a normal job, like a healer, as his example. What's never really mentioned or questioned, however, is that the Tamassran are supposedly exclusively female. Where does that leave straight women and gay males on this issue? It seems like a pretty glaring point to just never mention, especially since it could be a woman asking Iron Bull this. Has there ever been any further explanation of how that works? Do the Qunari just see sex as something that only needs to be provided for heterosexual males? It seems strange, since Qunari seem to be openly accepting and very aware of same sex relationships (or sexual contact, at least), and they don't seem particularly restrictive on women's sexual freedoms. Everyone has the same expectations for breeding, but outside of that it doesn't seem like they care who you have sex with. As the description goes, it just seems so limited what they think needs offered and it seems weirder that they don't let you mention it. Do they actually just believe everyone in the Qun should be bisexual and it's just the women's relevant gender role to provide for that to both genders? 

[Reznore57]

The fact you have to go to the Tamassran to have sex indicate , they do care who people have sex with , and there is no sexual freedom.

Qunari have no name , no family , I'd find it strange if they make an exception for sexual preference.

I imagine there's nothing sexy about Tamassran , it's probably just about sexual release , and if the person is skilled enough you close your eyes and let the magic work....Yeah I know how it sounds but hey I'm not the one who came up with the Tamassran taking one for the team.

 

I think what disturb me the most is Tamassran are the one who raise children and it seems some have motherly feelings towards the kids.Imagine later in life they might have to bang them.

The whole thing is awkward as hell.

[Andraste_Reborn]

I think the Tamassrans who are in charge of the creches and the Tamassrans who are sex workers are probably two different groups of people. Much as there are many different roles within the Ben-Hassrath - that's a title that covers spies, city guards and religious 're-educators' so I don't see why 'Tamassran' wouldn't cover both educators and sex workers without them necessarily being the same people.

 

As for straight women and gay men, I imagine there are Aqun-Athlok who are regarded as best suited to sex work, just as there are Aqun-Athlok who are regarded as best suited to military work. So probably some of the sex worker Tamassrans have penises, for those Qunari who are into those.

[Xilizhra]

Men are allowed in the priesthood--see the Ben-Hassrath--so male sex workers probably just have a different name.

[vertigomez]

I just assumed that male Tamassrans were regarded as female under the Qun, regardless of what's in their pants or what their gender presentation is.

Under the Qun, if you perform a certain service... that's the whole of what you are, and as far as the Qun is concerned a Tamassran is female. He could be the most Manly McMuscles brawny beardy dude on the planet and feel like a guy, but he's a woman according to the rules of that society.

[Nocte ad Mortem]

I just assumed that male Tamassrans were regarded as female under the Qun, regardless of what's in their pants or what their gender presentation is.

Under the Qun, if you perform a certain service... that's the whole of what you are, and as far as the Qun is concerned a Tamassran is female. He could be the most Manly McMuscles brawny beardy dude on the planet and feel like a guy, but he's a woman according to the rules of that society.

 

This is something I also considered, but I was unsure if they would tackle those kinds of gender issues. People assume that Iron Bull's acceptance of Krem as a male is more in line with our own views of trans people, but it takes on a different light if it's actually just something they force on people whether they personally see themselves as that gender, or not. It could be interesting, but sensitive to handle. It's something that's also existed in real world cultures in the past.

[Nocte ad Mortem]

The fact you have to go to the Tamassran to have sex indicate , they do care who people have sex with , and there is no sexual freedom.

Qunari have no name , no family , I'd find it strange if they make an exception for sexual preference.

I imagine there's nothing sexy about Tamassran , it's probably just about sexual release , and if the person is skilled enough you close your eyes and let the magic work....Yeah I know how it sounds but hey I'm not the one who came up with the Tamassran taking one for the team.

 

I think what disturb me the most is Tamassran are the one who raise children and it seems some have motherly feelings towards the kids.Imagine later in life they might have to bang them.

The whole thing is awkward as hell.

I think Tamassrans have different jobs. The Tamassran that raise children aren't necessarily the same Tamassran that provide sexual services. I took it that both were more full time jobs that you might be given, and both are just under the same umbrella.

 

But I actually don't get the impression that the Qun is against sexual relationships between individuals, they just don't allow you to have partnerships and families like other cultures in Thedas (or we in the real world) typically think of them. You're expected to submit to breeding duties, but everything I've seen suggests they otherwise don't care about your sexual conduct. Nobody in game has ever mentioned this being a problem. In DA2 it was said that the Viscount's son and the Qunari he intended to run away with were lovers, and that didn't seem to be a problem. Iron Bull doesn't seem to think same sex relationships are a problem. Though Sten makes his opinion known loud and clear that women shouldn't be fighting, he doesn't ever mention anything about this to a gay/lesbian Warden. Nobody ever mentioned it in DA2. I just feel like, if they actually had a big problem with this, it would have come up, like it's come up that they have strict gender rolls. 

 

I think it's a good point that the Tamassran sexual service providers may not be seen as "sexy" by their customers, but more like sentient sex toys. It may not be about the sexual attraction, but just the act of stimulation. It seems unnecessary, though, if that's the case. If it's not about the element of personal sexual attraction to another person, then why not just masturbate? The only reason I would assume they'd need people for this is because of that specific drive. 

[vertigomez]

This is something I also considered, but I was unsure if they would tackle those kinds of gender issues. People assume that Iron Bull's acceptance of Krem as a male is more in line with our own views of trans people, but it takes on a different light if it's actually just something they force on people whether they personally see themselves as that gender, or not. It could be interesting, but sensitive to handle. It's something that's also existed in real world cultures in the past.

Yes. Though I will say that Bull accepts Krem because he loves and respects him - that Bull compares Krem's situation to Aqun-Athlok is more about reassuring his friend and justifying his own faith in the Qun than anything else.

[Nocte ad Mortem]

Yes. Though I will say that Bull accepts Krem because he loves and respects him - that Bull compares Krem's situation to Aqun-Athlok is more about reassuring his friend and justifying his own faith in the Qun than anything else.

I think the writers were probably just using it as a "teachable moment" about Qun culture. Iron Bull is a good way to convey information about the Qun to familiarize people with it before the next game. I agree that he probably doesn't personally hold those same beliefs, though. I think his character is mostly about struggling with mental gymnastics to explain why he's not something that terrifies him (Tal-Vashoth) and then ultimately accepting that he doesn't need the Qun to not "turn into a savage", and that giving up the Qun doesn't actually change him at all. 

[fhs33721]

I think what disturb me the most is Tamassran are the one who raise children and it seems some have motherly feelings towards the kids.Imagine later in life they might have to bang them.

The whole thing is awkward as hell.

You'd probably just go to one of the Tamassrans that didn't raise you for sexual relief. I'm sure they have more than one.

[Gervaise]

I must admit that when Bull was telling me about the Qun's attitude to sex it made me think of 1984.   There Winston's wife feels obliged to have sex with him every now and again for the sake of the Party in order to produce children.   There is no emotional connection between them.    Then after they separate he just goes looking for sex with a Prole prostitute but it doesn't mean anything.    Then with Julia there is a real connection emotionally and it is also seen as a political act by them both because they feel that way instead of it just being a case of going through the motions for a sexual buzz.

 

So in the Qun, the Tamassrans decide who you have sex with if you are going to procreate but it doesn't have any meaning emotionally.  It is like breeding two animals together really.    If someone feels in the need of a bit of sexual relief, then the Tamassrans arrange it.   I even got the hint that Bull learned about bondage techniques from them because he misunderstands you when you talk about a "connection" with your partner.    Nowhere in Qun society do you have a situation of having sex because of an emotional connection with the other person or even any particular attraction.   It just seems a mechanical process.  Have you ever seen how breeders stimulate a bull into producing semen for artificial insemination?   May be it is like that.   I wonder if sexuality even enters into it.  Bull even says that they love their friends like the everyone else but they don't have sex with them.   It is like they have totally separated what you feel in your mind with the mechanics of having sex, but may be I have misunderstood it.

[Dai Grepher]

Hissrad was lying to you. Qunari do not "pop corks". Qunari are matched with mates for the purpose of reproduction. Sex is reserved for those instances.

[thats1evildude]

Is it actually sex, though? Or at least what WE would call sex? My impression is that it ranges from a quick handjob to getting, ummm, "released" by machines while Tamassrans chant from the Qun in the background. It's all ritualistic and structured, like having sex by following IKEA instructions, and gender is irrelevant.

[fhs33721]

Is it actually sex, though? Or at least what WE would call sex? My impression is that it ranges from a quick handjob to getting, ummm, "released" by machines while Tamassrans chant from the Qun in the background. It's all ritualistic and structured, like having sex by following IKEA instructions, and gender is irrelevant.

But if you follow the IKEA instructions, don't you risk accidentially ending up with a shelve instead of an orgasm? That would be awkward.

[Gervaise]

I also suspect that Bull's declaration that during sex he gives the person not what they want but what they need is straight out of the Tamaasran instruction book.   It is probably what they constantly said to him.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

I did occasionally wonder about this. Men or women can be in the Ben-Hassrath, but I think Tamassrans are all female. It could just be another example of a Qunari using imprecise language so as to not overcomplicate a simple explanation for a stupid bas. Like Sten explaining that you don't need to know his full name or Iron Bull's whole explanation about the meaning of the word Qunari, which was basically almost taken straight out of the confusing dev clarifications on the Kossith/Qunari issue on BSN.

[Lazarillo]

Under the Qun, if you perform a certain service... that's the whole of what you are, and as far as the Qun is concerned a Tamassran is female. He could be the most Manly McMuscles brawny beardy dude on the planet and feel like a guy, but he's a woman according to the rules of that society.

This doesn't make sense to me, though (maybe you have a better idea of it): if your sex defines your role, but your potential roles are limited by your sex, what meaning does "sex" even have in Qunari society? There's an illogical circle to that way of thinking, but maybe I'm missing a critical point:
"You can only be a sex worker if you're female"
"Males can be sex workers, but then they are considered females"
But "female" is basically just used as a designation to mean "can be a sex worker" here. So why bother delineating between the sexes when someone can just be called another sex?

Am I just missing something here?

[Ghost Gal]

I think Bull's reveal about sex services within the Qun is meant to answer questions and speculations about sexuality in the Qun. Remember, they don't allow marriage or combining sex with romantic love. People love each other in the Qun, but only as friends and coworkers. If you have sex with someone you love, you're considered "broken" and need to go in for re-education.

 

This left many people wondering if the Qun represses sexual urges--if they teach everyone lifelong abstinence from an early age, only let them have sex when breeding for reproduction, teach them to lie back and think of the Qun the few times in their life they're called forth to breed, etc.

 

Bull reveals that they don't repress sexual urges, they just direct redirect those urges to a designated target. They've got specialized priests (presumably of both genders since both men and women can join the priesthood) to give people sexual release so it doesn't interfere with the rest of their day or lives.

 

In a way, this makes sense. The Qun is all about self-mastery and self-control (and service to the Qun), so your emotions, urges, desires, etc. don't dictate you, and thus lead to misery and chaos. If someone is constantly horny but has no outlet for sexual release, that repressed sexual energy is going to start interfering with other aspects of their lives. However, sex and romantic love are also pretty powerful things. Allowing their citizens to indulge in sexual love, marriage, etc. would cause their bonds with their partners to overpower their mastery over themselves and/or their loyalty to the Qun. Giving people quick, easy access to sexual release with people they have no emotional attachment to allows them to release sexual energy so it doesn't rule them, and discouraging people from mixing sex with loved ones (friends, coworkers, etc) keeps their passion from overruling them.

 

So, from Bull we learn that they don't repress sexual urges, they just redirect it. 

[Qun00]

That is where the Aqun-Athlok come in handy, I'd imagine.

If a male Qunari show the qualities that are required to become a tamassran, he will be declared a "woman" and assigned that role.

That way, the gay men of Par Vollen won't be deprived of, uhh... healing.

Is it actually sex, though? Or at least what WE would call sex? My impression is that it ranges from a quick handjob to getting, ummm, "released" by machines while Tamassrans chant from the Qun in the background. It's all ritualistic and structured, like having sex by following IKEA instructions, and gender is irrelevant.

According to Bull, sometimes it is as you say. "You're done in 5 minutes (popping sound) thank you, see you next week"

But it can also be "this long involved thing, leaves you walking funny".

[DreamerM]

I didn't get the impression that the Tamassran's provided the sexual services themselves, just that they were who one went to if one felt the need. I imagine that like with everything else under the Qun, the sex workers are selected and groomed and trained for the job they will have. It's probably treated like any other role.

Friggin' robots...

[fhs33721]

 There's an illogical circle to that way of thinking, but maybe I'm missing a critical point:

No, it is illogical. The qunari operate on insane troll logic. You were born male but suck at fighting so you can't be a soldier? You bake a mean cake instead? Congrats you are now assigned to be a baker. Don't forget to wear a dress from now on since you are now officially a woman.

Keep in mind these are the same people who operate on the logic of: "We didn't loose a single man to the Tal Vashot because the many that did indeed leave us weren't true Qunari, so we lost nothing."

[sandalisthemaker]

This could just have been an oversight.  Or perhaps they could have just gone with what the largest portion of the audience would find appealing since Bull presents the whole thing in a 'wham bam thank you, ma'am' sort of way with humorous intent.  

[vertigomez]

This doesn't make sense to me, though (maybe you have a better idea of it): if your sex defines your role, but your potential roles are limited by your sex, what meaning does "sex" even have in Qunari society? There's an illogical circle to that way of thinking, but maybe I'm missing a critical point:"You can only be a sex worker if you're female""Males can be sex workers, but then they are considered females"But "female" is basically just used as a designation to mean "can be a sex worker" here. So why bother delineating between the sexes when someone can just be called another sex?Am I just missing something here?

This:

No, it is illogical. The qunari operate on insane troll logic. You were born male but suck at fighting so you can't be a soldier? You bake a mean cake instead? Congrats you are now assigned to be a baker. Don't forget to wear a dress from now on since you are now officially a woman.
Keep in mind these are the same people who operate on the logic of: "We didn't loose a single man to the Tal Vashot because the many that did indeed leave us weren't true Qunari, so we lost nothing."

Circular logic is the Qun's modus operandi. It's why a mage Hawke can be declared basalit-an: you're not a worthy mage, you're just a worthy person who happens to have phenomenal cosmic power at your fingertips.

It's the idea that, generally, certain sexes are better suited to certain tasks than others. But if you're not that sex and you happen to be really good at that task, then obviously you're not your sex.

[nightscrawl]

This could just have been an oversight.  Or perhaps they could have just gone with what the largest portion of the audience would find appealing since Bull presents the whole thing in a 'wham bam thank you, ma'am' sort of way that was meant to be humorous. 

 

I think this is another issue with Bull's bisexuality (being non-existent except with a male Inquisitor or Dorian), since it can gloss over this aspect of it because he's also attracted to women. I'm sure a bi guy, even if he's been with women recently for whatever reason, sometimes just wants to have sex with another dude. So there is this sort of missing piece when Bull explains the whole thing, and as you say, it's done in a humorous way. I had never thought of this before, but my gay Inquisitor probably should ask, "But uh... what if you're into men?"

[sandalisthemaker]

I think this is another issue with Bull's bisexuality (being non-existent except with a male Inquisitor or Dorian), since it can gloss over this aspect of it because he's also attracted to women. I'm sure a bi guy, even if he's been with women recently for whatever reason, sometimes just wants to have sex with another dude. So there is this sort of missing piece when Bull explains the whole thing, and as you say, it's done in a humorous way. I had never thought of this before, but my gay Inquisitor probably should ask, "But uh... what if you're into men?"

 

That's certainly what my Inquisitor wanted to ask, since listening to Bull talk about female Tamassrans "popping people's corks" made his nose scrunch up.