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[Nocte ad Mortem]

So, what's heavily implied in The Descent is that Lyrium is the "blood" of Titans. There's a lot of unexplained material there, like why does the Lyrium sing, and why does it "bridge" the Fade and the material world, or what the Dwarves connection is to it despite having been totally cut off from the Fade. Maybe it's because they've forgotten their connection/responsibility to the Titans, which is why Valta seemed to be given magical abilities by the Titan? I also remember a line from Cole about how the Dwarves "don't remember themselves" in Crestwood. A point brought up in DA:I, also, is that Red Lyrium is corrupted by the taint. Does that mean that the Primeval Thaig is actually part of a corrupted Titan? The rock wraiths there seem very similar to the final boss of The Descent in their assembly and nature. That possibility seems like it could have pretty catastrophic effects, if the thing ever becomes active again. What would happen if more Titans were to become corrupted by the now widespread Red Lyrium? It seems like this could be a plot thread that's important later, and a way to make Dwarves a bigger part of the story again. What do you guys think? Could the Red Lyrium found in the Primeval Thaig imply there's a corrupted Titan near Kirkwall? 

 

Another thing I wonder, though, because it's so heavily implied that we are supposed to understand Lyrium is Titan's blood and Red Lyrium is taint corrupted Lyrium, is how the Primeval Thaig ended up so differently than the rest of the Lyrium in the world. It's made clear that nobody else had ever seen anything like this before. Blights have been happening for a very long time and Darkspawn have been swarming all over the Deep Roads for at least that long. Some suggest they may even pre-date the Blights. So, why has only this one, ancient Thaig had its Lyrium veins corrupted? It seems like it must be harder to taint a Titan than simply having Darkspawn near it, or near its Lyrium veins. Maybe it can only be done if they reach a specific point in the Titan, like a specific vulnerable spot, or maybe this Titan was tainted by some magical event or ritual that was incredibly powerful? When you speak to Valta about the Titans having awoken, she says it was because of the Breach and you can ask what woke them before (I think 900 years ago?). She doesn't know, but is it possible that they woke because that was when the first corruption happened? I also wonder if it was just assumed the Breach had woken them, but that it could have actually been the spread of Red Lyrium. 

 

Basically, I'm just looking to hash out Titan/Red Lyrium theories. Tell me what you think. 

 

 

EDIT -- 

 

Another thing I just thought of and had to tack on here, what are the implications of Leliana's possible resurrection in relationship to the Titans, if it's been implied that was due to the Lyrium she was surrounded by? Did a Titan resurrect Leliana? o___o

 

This is actually made a more interesting point by those implications at the end of The Descent that something became of Renn's dead body.

[Gervaise]

There is a brief throw away line from Solas when you first go to the site of the explosion when Varric notices the red lyrium there and is discussing its presence with Cassandra.   Solas says how may be it was corrupted by magic.    We know from DAO, if you took Oghran on the Ashes quest, that the whole mountain was a bed of lyrium, may be it was even a sleeping titan.    Anyway, there was a lot of lyrium in that location and it would seem that the huge magical release is what probably corrupted it.  

 

Mythal apparently conquered at least one Titan in the ancient days, possibly even killed it, probably with magic.   So it is possible that killing a titan is what corrupts it.   I think that Mythal probably had some connection with the ancient Thaig and the idol was actually meant to be of her.    The dwarves have a belief that if they are rejected by the Stone on death, then they are doomed wander the caverns as rock wraiths.    If these dwarves had worshipped a being that killed a titan (the Stone) then it could account for them being cursed to become rock wraiths.    When Mythal took this action it would seem that at least those dwarves were cut off from their connection with the Stone. 

 

Something was buried by the ancient elves and sealed in that could have had terrible implications for the world.    Could this have been red lyrium or the discovery of creatures that had been affected by the Blight?

 

Don't believe anything about the source of the Blight that is found in the Chant or taught by the Chantry.   Likely the Magisters only unwittingly released the Blight (as Corypheus claims) because it was already there, being corrupted by it themselves in the process.  

 

The Evanuris seem to have conducted a war against the titans.   Clearly they did not kill them all but their magic may have put them to sleep.   Or possibly it was the raising of the Veil that did this, which would account for why the Breach caused it to stir.     

 

Valta seems to imply that she has evidence of the Shaperate altering the history contained in their records.   So it may well be that earlier members deliberately concealed something about the origins of the dwarves.     No doubt all will be reveal at some point in the future.    May be we will visit Kal Sharok.   That was formerly the location of the dwarven capital, which was moved to Orzammar during the early years of the Tevinter Imperium, which is odd considering their close links with the human empire made Kal Sharok a much better location, although they claim this was because the influence of Imperium was weakening when they took the decision, so something needs to be explained there.   Then with the spread of the darkspawn, Kal Sharok was cut off and abandoned by Orzammar, only to re-emerge during recent times.   There are hints that the inhabitants of that Thaig may have altered in some way to survive the Blights that may have made them have some affinity with it, so it will be interesting to discover the truth about this.

[kimgoold]

I believed the Ancient Thaig was so Ancient it had to date to the time the Evanuris attacked the Dwarves, and that Red Lyrium was the result. A bio-weapon deployed by Mythal that had catastrophic consequences and thats why the Evanuris fled back to the surface - perhaps I'm wrong but thats the impression I got. And the Blight was a side effect on living creatures (other than Titans). I also thought that the Arch Demons old Dragon Gods weren't banished or imprisoned by the Maker but instead went into hibernation below ground and thats was how they became tainted. 

Really looking forward to more information in the next game on this issue, perhaps we'll finally get to go to Kal Sharok.

[Bayonet Hipshot]

Red Lyrium implies a Titan that is infected with Taint or a dead Titan that is infected with said Taint. So yes, there is probably a corrupted or partially corrupted Titan somewhere, perhaps the Titan that houses the Primeval Thaig or the Deep Roads in  Trespasser.

 

The issue here is that we do not know what the Taint is except that it is magical in nature and it infects everything that is alive. The Taint is suspected to originate from the Void and we do not know or have not seen the Void yet.

 

I am curious how Bioware will even introduce the Void to us. It seems to be the opposite of the Fade. Where the Fade creates life in the form of spirits, the Void consumes life.

 

So it might be possible that one of the Evanuris, possibly Mythal, killed a Titan using Taint Magic and set off the whole mess in the Primeval Thaig. Perhaps Taint Magic is the only thing that works effectively against Titans since their blood, Lyrium, can both be used to power Fade magic and suppress it.

[Nocte ad Mortem]

There is a brief throw away line from Solas when you first go to the site of the explosion when Varric notices the red lyrium there and is discussing its presence with Cassandra.   Solas says how may be it was corrupted by magic.    We know from DAO, if you took Oghran on the Ashes quest, that the whole mountain was a bed of lyrium, may be it was even a sleeping titan.    Anyway, there was a lot of lyrium in that location and it would seem that the huge magical release is what probably corrupted it.  

I had thought the presence of Red Lyrium was only because Corypheus had discovered the Primeval Thaig through Bianca and brought it with him. He's already embedded it in his own body by time you see him again. When you first find Corypheus in DA2, he doesn't have those red chunks in his body. They're just black. It's when he appears again in DA:I that he's gotten the Red Lyrium upgrades. I have no idea why, but apparently it doesn't seem to overpower or drive him mad like others. Or maybe it did drive him mad (madder?). I guess there's no telling with him.

 

I agree about nothing the Chantry said about the Blights being true. I also think this is an issue of the Magisters probably getting access to somewhere they shouldn't have and accidentally releasing something that the Evanuris or someone else had locked away. It seems like the theme from first thinking the Eluvians were Tevinter artifacts in Origins, to the origins of the Blights, to all the "cradle of civilization" talk about Tevinter, the theme they keep up is that humans think Tevinter was this great empire that forged civilization and great magical works, but really they just aped Elven culture and bumbled through not really understanding it to end up with a pale imitation.

[Bayonet Hipshot]

the "cradle of civilization" talk about Tevinter, the theme they keep up is that humans think Tevinter was this great empire that forged civilization and great magical works, but really they just aped Elven culture and bumbled through not really understanding it to end up with a pale imitation.

 

I honestly want this to be one of the themes explored in depth in DA4. More importantly, I want to see the Tevinter's reaction when they learn that their glorious empire, their cradle of civilization is merely a pale imitation of Ancient Elvhenan.

 

I know its silly, but I really want to see Calpernia's reaction in particular because she's the one who brings up the "Tevinter is the cradle of civilization.." rhetoric at the Well of Sorrows. My Inquisitor spared her so I hope she is around when we learn that Tevinter Imperium = poacher of post-Veil Ancient Elvhenan. Yes, I specifically mentioned post-Veil Ancient Elvhenan because Tevinters never figured out how Elven technosorcery such as the Eluvians truly worked or what they are even for.

[Nocte ad Mortem]

I honestly want this to be one of the themes explored in depth in DA4. More importantly, I want to see the Tevinter's reaction when they learn that their glorious empire, their cradle of civilization is merely a pale imitation of Ancient Elvhenan.

 

I know its silly, but I really want to see Calpernia's reaction in particular because she's the one who brings up the "Tevinter is the cradle of civilization.." rhetoric at the Well of Sorrows. My Inquisitor spared her so I hope she is around when we learn that Tevinter Imperium = poacher of post-Veil Ancient Elvhenan. Yes, I specifically mentioned post-Veil Ancient Elvhenan because Tevinters never figured out how Elven technosorcery such as the Eluvians truly worked or what they are even for.

I'm interested to see Dorian's reaction, too, since he had a very similar line as Calpernia's when talking about how he felt about Tevinter and he was also showing some serious butthurt when he learned that Tevinter actually didn't defeat the ancient elves, but just sort of moved in after they sabotaged themselves and picked over the cultural remains. 

[Bayonet Hipshot]

I'm interested to see Dorian's reaction, too, since he had a very similar line as Calpernia's when talking about how he felt about Tevinter and he was also showing some serious butthurt when he learned that Tevinter actually didn't defeat the ancient elves, but just sort of moved in after they sabotaged themselves and picked over the cultural remains. 

 

I always bring Dorian to the Well of Sorrows mission. However, when you think about what happened in Trespasser, Abelas is absolutely correct.

 

In a world without the Veil, all of the Elvhen would be extremely powerful. All of them, even the warriors and rogues, would be magical in nature. Better still, powerful mages amongst them can cast spells with pure thought, as Solas demonstrated in Trespasser and their equipment such as their armors and weapons would be top-notch. Tevinter would have been able to do jack sh*t against a pre-Veil Elvhenan.

 

No amount of blood magic and Old God whispers can compete with mages that can petrify with a single thought or shapeshift into high dragons, with warriors and rogues that use magic as naturally as a normal mage (Ancient Elvhenan rogues would be nightblades and warriors would be battlemages) and with a civilization of ageless people that can fast travel anywhere.

[Gervaise]

Yet I feel that Dorian was a bit too quick to accept the story from Abelas.   The settlement that Tevinter conquered in Arlathan Forest was but a pale reflection of the empire of the elves but that occurred nearly 2000 years after the Veil was raised and the empire came crashing down.    The Old Gods were said to start talking to the ancient Neromenians around the same time as the Veil went up.    Then came 1100 years before the 4 kingdoms of Barindur, Neromenian, Tevinter and Qarinus and another 200 years to Thalsian, who was meant to be the First Priest of Dumat, the first blood mage and the first dreamer.   It was another 400 years until Darinius and the start of the Tevinter Imperium proper.   So it seems unlikely that the human Imperium owed its entire rise to what they scavenged from the fall of the empire of the elves and they did indeed construct their own civilisation.     There were similarities with the ancient elves but also differences.   So the writers turning around and saying Tevinter wasn't so great after all isn't really borne out by the timeline and they need to really explain what was happening there, particularly with regard to the Old Gods.   It seems to me that they had far more to do with the rise of the humans mages than the elves did.   When exactly did they make contact, why did it take so long for Dumat to get around to teaching blood magic and when and why did the Old Gods stop talking to their priesthood en mass?

[Dai Grepher]

No. It just means there is tainted lyrium.

A titan might rise from enough red lyrium, though it all depends on how a titan is formed. If my theory is correct and it's a matter of souls being absorbed into some collective consciousness, as well as Fade energies being drawn in, then it's possible a collective consciousness could arise from red lyrium.

In HLtA, if you examine the red lyrium in the Fade one of the messages says something like...

We are sundered
We are broken
We are whatever...

So this might indicate that it's possible for red lyrium to contain a collective of conscious beings.

What will happen if a corrupted titan spawns? Maybe the darkspawn will flock to it and try to unearth it. Maybe it causes earthquakes. Maybe Grey Wardens will hear its "song". In any case, it will likely need to be destroyed. Can't have that stuff spreading and infecting.

If only there were a hero who would return with a cure for the taint...

[Aliceeverafter]

 Could the Red Lyrium found in the Primeval Thaig imply there's a corrupted Titan near Kirkwall? 

 

That would explain why the Kirkwall is such a hell hole. Effects of red lyrium seeping through the soil since Tevinter times ...

[Nocte ad Mortem]

That would explain why the Kirkwall is such a hell hole. Effects of red lyrium seeping through the soil since Tevinter times ...

I'd thought about that, too. The whole time you're in Kirkwall there's implications that something is very wrong there without much explanation of what. Yes, it was a slave holding area, but that was a long time ago and it seems like things are only getting worse. Questions are definitely left unanswered. If there's a tainted Titan sitting under the city, that could explain a lot. 

[In Exile]

I wouldn't be so quick to think the dwarves having a connection with a Titan is a good thing. Descent certain suggests otherwise - that dwarves were originally more like a Titans immune system, like a sort of golem. Actually, I'd wager dwarves are to a blue lyrium Titan what darkspawn are to a red lyrium one.

Remember Solas describes the dwarves as the "severed arm" of a once mighty hero.

That would explain why the Kirkwall is such a hell hole. Effects of red lyrium seeping through the soil since Tevinter times ...

I believe the explanation for that one is actually that Corypheus was imprisoned near it.

[Nocte ad Mortem]

I wouldn't be so quick to think the dwarves having a connection with a Titan is a good thing. Descent certain suggests otherwise - that dwarves were originally more like a Titans immune system, like a sort of golem. Actually, I'd wager dwarves are to a blue lyrium Titan what darkspawn are to a red lyrium one.

In what way do you mean? It doesn't seem like we've seen any connection to the Darkspawn. They're both tainted, but they suggested in DA2 that the Darkspawn avoided the Primeval Thaig. The Darkspawn will do anything to get close to Old Gods, but didn't seem that interested in fighting the Sha-Brytol to get to the corrupted Titan. I'm not sure there's strong implications that Darkspawn care about corrupted Titans/red Lyrium. It almost seems to be leaning more towards them being repelled, for some reason. I see why the taint seems like it should connect them, but the in game information seems like they're pointing away from that.

 

But I think the "immune system" theory is arguably a neutral thing, for now. Valta did act strange at the end of The Descent, but unless the Dwarves lose all free will, it may not be an inherently bad thing for them to have some intrinsic link to the Titans. Valta didn't seem to be drone-like, but I guess we can't know until we see Dwarves that have been connected to the Titan for an extended period. The religion of the Dwarves already accepts that their souls pass back into the Stone, which is likely a hold over from the Titans. They might see living in and serving them as a realization of their religion, at least the majority of those that aren't surfacers and that are faithful to Dwarven culture as we know it. Being forced to do this would be wrong, but I could see Dwarves choosing to commune with the Titan and protect it willingly, assuming it doesn't make them mindless drones or something we haven't seen yet. 

[Aliceeverafter]

I believe the explanation for that one is actually that Corypheus was imprisoned near it.

that's a shame. I like my idea more

Maybe Corypheus tainted the thaig/Titan by his mere presence? Maybe he was the actual (accidental) cause of lyrium getting the taint as he was the first darkspawn.

(i have no idea of dates. Dates and ages in this game do my head in )

[Dai Grepher]

I'd thought about that, too. The whole time you're in Kirkwall there's implications that something is very wrong there without much explanation of what. Yes, it was a slave holding area, but that was a long time ago and it seems like things are only getting worse. Questions are definitely left unanswered. If there's a tainted Titan sitting under the city, that could explain a lot.

It wouldn't even need to be a tainted titan. Red lyrium alone would be enough to make it a bad situation. However, I think the game implies that the wrongness of the city stems from all the slave sacrifices that went on there in the past. All those deaths and use of blood weakened the Veil and the area somehow exudes anger, pain, and sorrow.

[Gervaise]

There is a suggestion in correspondence between Seekers concerning the activities of the Band of Three in Kirkwall that there was some connection the writer knew about between the rise of the use of blood magic by Tevinter and the elves of Arlathan.   The writer suggests that the knowledge was wrested from the elves by Tevinter rather than being given by Dumat.   The problem with that theory is that the fall of the empire occurs too early and the settlement in Arlathan Forest too late for this to be the case.   The Tevinter specifically link it to Thalsian as his First Priest, First Dreamer and First Practitioner of blood magic 1200 years after the elves felt the Quickening.   This was during the time of the 4 kingdoms (well 3 because Barindur had already disappeared mysteriously - Solas says a volcanic eruption) and long before Tevinter conquered the south down to Kirkwall, so I really don't know what the connection is hinted at being, unless humans history has got hopelessly muddled.  Sundermount was said to the site of the elves last stand - when exactly?  That seems the only real connection that you can make.

 

However, the notes of the Band of Three mentioned how the city seemed to be constructed in such a way that everything drained down into the depths of Darktown, as though it was some vast blood magic sacrificial site.   Which might also account for why it was a slave city, because they needed them for the rituals, or they could have made the altar there because there were so many slaves.    I wonder if it is possible that in fact Kirkwall was the site of the attempt on the Golden City by Corypheus.    There was certainly an altar to Dumat under his prison in the Mountains but may be that was only his regular temple, not the hidden one that they used for their secret ritual.

 

Suffice to say there had been enough death and misery in and around the environs of Kirkwall that the Veil there must be VERY thin.   No wonder mages seemed to get possessed so easily.  

[Nocte ad Mortem]

I wonder if it is possible that in fact Kirkwall was the site of the attempt on the Golden City by Corypheus.    

On this point, I've seen some people suggest maybe the Primeval Thaig was used as the entry point, which is what caused it to become corrupted. In the past, people questioned why the Magisters would consider a random place in the Deep Roads for their entry point, but it makes more sense when you know about Titans. There's always questions how they managed to do something like this, even with massive supplies of blood and Lyrium. Maybe if they could find a way to use a Titan as a catalyst, that would have been the "secret weapon" they needed to do this. 

 

Then again, it's just one theory. Dorian mentions to Solas that the Magisters had orbs in old artistic representations that looked like the one Corypheus had. Maybe he used one very similarly to how he tries this time. It's possible he totally duped Solas into thinking he was just some stupid human mage that would have no idea what he was doing and surely blow himself up, when he always knew exactly how to create the mark and had done it before. 

[SwobyJ]

I had thought the presence of Red Lyrium was only because Corypheus had discovered the Primeval Thaig through Bianca and brought it with him. He's already embedded it in his own body by time you see him again. When you first find Corypheus in DA2, he doesn't have those red chunks in his body. They're just black. It's when he appears again in DA:I that he's gotten the Red Lyrium upgrades. I have no idea why, but apparently it doesn't seem to overpower or drive him mad like others. Or maybe it did drive him mad (madder?). I guess there's no telling with him.

 

I agree about nothing the Chantry said about the Blights being true. I also think this is an issue of the Magisters probably getting access to somewhere they shouldn't have and accidentally releasing something that the Evanuris or someone else had locked away. It seems like the theme from first thinking the Eluvians were Tevinter artifacts in Origins, to the origins of the Blights, to all the "cradle of civilization" talk about Tevinter, the theme they keep up is that humans think Tevinter was this great empire that forged civilization and great magical works, but really they just aped Elven culture and bumbled through not really understanding it to end up with a pale imitation.

 

My impression so far about Corypheus is two things, and it has to do with how I regard how colors tend to work in Bioware games more and more (and I could be wrong):

 

1)The Red Lyrium wakes Corypheus more to the base truth of matters. When he speaks in DAI, it is with high confidence, certainty, definition. He is given strength of conviction, and strength of violent power. With this, he is even more enabled to attempt to overpower Thedas than he even may have felt otherwise.

 

2)However, it does two more things. First, it drives him to be more psychopathic than otherwise. The new world he'll create, as In Hushed Whispers indicates, is a realm of death and despair and a near complete absence of hope and peace.

Second, it makes him dumb. Really. Basically. He is so stuck to the core of his personal experience truth, that he considers nothing else. His gods didn't answer, so they're dead to him. The Maker doesn't answer, so he's a falsehood to be dispelled. Nothing has stood in his way and survived, thus he has the will to take and use power. 

 

 

So he's both driven mad and brutal AND yet he's given the viewpoint that has him consider himself more sane than the rest of the world. He probably really really gets set into him the idea that red lyrium is the most powerful available upgrade for him, that he's the most powerful entity at that time in at least southern Thedas, that his plan is the best plan that could crush everyone in at least southern Thedas, etc etc. He's become an avatar of destruction that desires and believes that he can become the god for the world if nothing else cannot/will not/could never have been true gods. He's like 'Thedas' without outside influence. Though it depends on what the Void actually is (is it 'aside' from Thedas like the Fade, or it is actually part of some core composition of Thedas?).

 

In any case, I theorize that the Red Lyrium him turned his nihilism and scheming into even more violent urges to dominate the world. Red Lyrium seems to at LEAST have the effect of influencing beings to go against others, instead of unify. I think even if/when (in IHW) the Red Templars etc get their way against their enemies, they'd still end up going against each other and not just against the breaching demons, until there's very few left even loyal to Corypheus and only because he keeps them on the tightest leash and clear and constantly demonstrated threat of his power. Corypheus = death, Corypheus with Red Lyrium = RUIN.

 

That all said... Red Lyrium seems like it may be a fact of this world and maybe even part of a story of existence even before the Maker did things (or at least as he just started to do things), so we gotta deal with it. And I wouldn't be surprised at a DA4+ where we find increased ways to temper and utilize it for more helpful and progressive ends. The art design of Corypheus' people really indicated to me a carelessness and stupidity about Red Lyrium that isn't necessarily to be the case with anyone handling it. Even Bartrand in DA2 was more stumbling into it with greed and ignorance.

[Donquijote and 59 others]

 

The issue here is that we do not know what the Taint is except that it is magical in nature and it infects everything that is alive. The Taint is suspected to originate from the Void and we do not know or have not seen the Void yet.

 

The void is nothing more but a legend mentioned in a codex there is no proof that it exist.

[Xerrai]

The void is nothing more but a legend mentioned in a codex there is no proof that it exist.

Are you talking about the Andruil codex at the Temple of Mythal? Because I'm pretty sure the "void" is also mentioned in the Chant of Light. But to be fair, that was probably a metaphor or an allegorical device.

[Nocte ad Mortem]

The Andrastrians and the Elves both believe in The Void (or Abyss, sometimes). It's referenced in multiple places. There's no solid proof that it exists, as far as I know, but it's mentioned often enough that I imagine it does. It's enough of a part of several elven stories that I'd believe it, since we know the elven pantheon is real in a very material sense. Here's the wiki page for The Void:

 

http://dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Void

[Gervaise]

Andruil hunted the Forgotten Ones in the Void, which suggests it definitely does exist.    The archdemon in Last Flight is said to draw its magic from somewhere that is not the Fade.   This would suggest it is drawing it from the Void which seems to be an anti-life sort of place.   

 

In the Chant of Light it says the following:

Where the Maker has turned his face away is a Void in all things;

In the world, in the fade, in the hearts and minds of men.

Passing out of the world, in that Void shall they wander

O unrepentant, faithless, treacherous,

They who are judged and found wanting

Shall know forever the loss of the Maker's love.

 

Now this suggests that the Void is an actual place separate from the world and the Fade but in World of Thedas it says the Chantry teaches that the souls of the damned are doomed to wander the Fade and it is the Maker that is in some other place where the souls of the righteous join him.    Since the Chantry interprets a lot of things in the Chant to suit themselves rather than what it actually says, I'm opting for there being an actual anti-life place called the Void.

[Nocte ad Mortem]

The archdemon in Last Flight is said to draw its magic from somewhere that is not the Fade.   This would suggest it is drawing it from the Void which seems to be an anti-life sort of place.   

Would you mind explaining the context of this a bit more and how they came to that conclusion? I haven't read the novels, but that sounds like an interesting point. 

[In Exile]

Would you mind explaining the context of this a bit more and how they came to that conclusion? I haven't read the novels, but that sounds like an interesting point. 

 

It's the Blight. DG already confirmed that for us a long time ago. The Blight powers the darkspawn, and their magic. Not the Fade. DA:O failed to show this, but Darkspawn don't use magic in the same way that mages use magic. It's also why darkspawn don't age or need to eat: the Blight is a source of sustenance for them.