134 réponses à ce sujet

[GruntKitterhand]

 

In any case, Valkyrie, Justicar, and Fury all enter the room, and things explode!  Cabal enters the room and looks for ways to disengage.

 

I'm not sure if I agree with this - I would include the Cabal as a contender for that group too, at least in the sense that I'm likely to be spawn-hunting slightly recklessly and certainly fearlessly. But she's different as she's the only one I've managed to build successfully for melee.  I appreciate that you can't stand the bugs, but that aside, she's a Turian first and foremost, so the systematic destruction of enemies comes naturally. I skip PS because it's unbearable (to me) off-host, but I spam Biotic Focus like a mofo and melee the crap out of everything around me, alternating Raider/Disciple/Piranha shots and DoT Blades. It's pretty satisfying.

 

Funnily enough I don't particularly like either the Claymore or Wraith on her. But if I had to choose........... it would take less time than it took typing those dots. BOOM!!! 

[HusarX]

No Javelin, no GS....LOL

[Deerber]

I don't like Deerber - oh no!

 

I love him!

 

 

Though I think we both love blue ladies more  

 

I'm not sure if I agree with this - I would include the Cabal as a contender for that group too, at least in the sense that I'm likely to be spawn-hunting slightly recklessly and certainly fearlessly. But she's different as she's the only one I've managed to build successfully for melee.  I appreciate that you can't stand the bugs, but that aside, she's a Turian first and foremost, so the systematic destruction of enemies comes naturally. I skip PS because it's unbearable (to me) off-host, but I spam Biotic Focus like a mofo and melee the crap out of everything around me, alternating Raider/Disciple/Piranha shots and DoT Blades. It's pretty satisfying.

 

Funnily enough I don't particularly like either the Claymore or Wraith on her. But if I had to choose........... it would take less time than it took typing those dots. BOOM!!! 

 

Claymore's too heavy on her to really shine, and she really already does need the armor slot for either a cyclonic or a power amp, so no CD bonus consumable.

 

However, the style of that combo is still over 9000, so it wins hands down

[Arkhne]

 

Though I think we both love blue ladies more

 

 

Claymore's too heavy on her to really shine, and she really already does need the armor slot for either a cyclonic or a power amp, so no CD bonus consumable.

 

However, the style of that combo is still over 9000, so it wins hands down

 

With a Power Amp 3 or 4, Poison Strike actually does decent damage, with good DoT. Throw in Incendiary Ammo (and a PS to Detonate), preceeded with a Nightshade Blades to soften up the spawn, the DoT levels are simply insane. I can't justify using anything that isn't a Power Amp on her (though it is firmly established that I have bad opinions regarding this game).

 

I have to agree with the no-Claymore thing for her, it really is too heavy for her. For me, I like my Cooldowns on her as zippy as possible, which is why I use the Eagle on her (with Power Mag, Piercing Mod, and Incendiary Ammo), although, I could see the Talon working very nicely on her. Range is not a problem for her, she is fast, agile, and usually up close anyway, which is a good arguement for the Raider (though, for me, it would be too heavy for her).

 

IMHO, the only Cabal build that isn't stylish is one that is totally generic Turian Gunslinger (keeping my Turians unique and different to each other is important to me). Anything else results in either heavy use of melee (Vorcha melee animations are pretty good, and the DoT is a nice bonus), or heavy use of Poison Strike (which is a unique power), and both are really cool and stylish.

[TheTechnoTurian]

Tried this build about a year ago. Worthless off host, poison strike is one of the most mediocre "signature" powers in the game in terms of utility, consistency and damage, and her heavy melee is glitchy and inconsistent, especially on DLC maps and inclines.

If I want to play some dumb melee build off host that is similar to this, just more consistent, I would pick drell vanguard. The day I pick a frog over a turian is a sad one indeed, but the cabal's powerset is just that meh and host dependant.

The people that play her as a grenadespamharrierbot aren't doin it wrong. Bioware's the one who did it wrong.

[PatrickBateman]

Tried this build about a year ago. Worthless off host, poison strike is one of the most mediocre "signature" powers in the game in terms of utility, consistency and damage, and her heavy melee is glitchy and inconsistent, especially on DLC maps and inclines.

If I want to play some dumb melee build off host that is similar to this, just more consistent, I would pick drell vanguard. The day I pick a frog over a turian is a sad one indeed, but the cabal's powerset is just that meh and host dependant.

The people that play her as a grenadespamharrierbot aren't doin it wrong. Bioware's the one who did it wrong.

This, had they taken the time to get it right the Cabal would have been amazing, it's unfortunate.

[yrael]

I very rarely play off-host these days, so Cabal is generally reliable for me, but even then she suffers from things like the generic grenade power glitch and sometimes going invisible for no reason.

[capn233]

I played the Cabal as melee way back when, but the build was a bit different.

 

Of course she has been through a few iterations of builds since then, melee in general isn't all that efficient on nearly all the classes.  I don't play her very often anymore, I practically just play a couple classes I like.

[RYGELthe16TH]

Tried this build about a year ago. Worthless off host, poison strike is one of the most mediocre "signature" powers in the game in terms of utility, consistency and damage, and her heavy melee is glitchy and inconsistent, especially on DLC maps and inclines.

... the cabal's powerset is just that meh and host dependant.

The people that play her as a grenadespamharrierbot aren't doin it wrong. Bioware's the one who did it wrong.

 

This, had they taken the time to get it right the Cabal would have been amazing, it's unfortunate.

 

See, I think my video in the gameplay disproves that. The cabal is a little glitchy, sure, but entirely playable and potentially fantastic amounts of fun. Poison strike has just as much utility and damage as powers like ballistic blade or annihiliation field. And my video demonstrates that poison strike is perfectly consistent, just misunderstood.

 

How does having to host make a class any less playable? Everyone seems to love the novaguard, and that's usually played on host. At least 25% of ppl playing at a given time are hosting anyway. I don't understand the bias against hosting.

 

I think bioware made this class pretty well, and the powers fit together perfectly, as I explain and demonstrate in the video. I don't think you should give up on the class, just because of widespread bias and ignorance.

 

With a Power Amp 3 or 4, Poison Strike actually does decent damage, with good DoT. Throw in Incendiary Ammo (and a PS to Detonate), preceeded with a Nightshade Blades to soften up the spawn, the DoT levels are simply insane. I can't justify using anything that isn't a Power Amp on her (though it is firmly established that I have bad opinions regarding this game).

...

IMHO, the only Cabal build that isn't stylish is one that is totally generic Turian Gunslinger (keeping my Turians unique and different to each other is important to me). Anything else results in either heavy use of melee (Vorcha melee animations are pretty good, and the DoT is a nice bonus), or heavy use of Poison Strike (which is a unique power), and both are really cool and stylish.

 

I've run with a power amp many times. I agree, the damage from poison strike is very solid, and with short cooldowns, stagger-lock becomes possible. Sometimes "bad opinions" are just bold experiments. They can lead to really great ideas.

 

Yes, cool and stylish > practical.

[PatrickBateman]

See, I think my video in the gameplay disproves that. The cabal is a little glitchy, sure, but entirely playable and potentially fantastic amounts of fun. Poison strike has just as much utility and damage as powers like ballistic blade or annihiliation field. And my video demonstrates that poison strike is perfectly consistent, just misunderstood.

How does having to host make a class any less playable? Everyone seems to love the novaguard, and that's usually played on host. At least 25% of ppl playing at a given time are hosting anyway. I don't understand the bias against hosting.

I think bioware made this class pretty well, and the powers fit together perfectly, as I explain and demonstrate in the video. I don't think you should give up on the class, just because of widespread bias and ignorance.


I've run with a power amp many times. I agree, the damage from poison strike is very solid, and with short cooldowns, stagger-lock becomes possible. Sometimes "bad opinions" are just bold experiments. They can lead to really great ideas.

Yes, cool and stylish > practical.

It don't, bring that build to off-host platinum where it really counts (gold is trivial regardless of kit/build/gun after all) and you will see that that kit is a glitched mess that could have worked perfectly if they did it right.

[yrael]

If avoiding glitches with a character or power requires a specific set of parameters, that makes a character less playable. Vanguards off-host are not especially playable. You CAN potentially minimize glitches, but nothing's for certain, and therefore not always worth the risk.

 

Having to host to make a character work is inconvenient, and if your lobbies tend to have lag, it's ESPECIALLY inconvenient for other players. It can also make matches with friends difficult unless you're willing to trade off, and that's just a hassle. For example, if you wanted to do some of the themed challenges (which I personally enjoy), some of them are made more difficult when it comes to characters with low off-host reliability.

 

Also, the fact that people find her less than playable because of these shortcomings in functionality doesn't mean they're being influenced by "bias and ignorance." Sometimes (not always in this player base, but occasionally) when a lot of people agree on something, there's a good reason for it.

 

All that said, I like the Cabal overall, but the fact that I just happen to normally play on-host (because of issues of lag and framerate differences with friends) does give me a certain bias, and I'm aware of that. When I'm off-host I almost never use vanguards because I agree that they're not really playable.

[PatrickBateman]

If avoiding glitches with a character or power requires a specific set of parameters, that makes a character less playable. Vanguards off-host are not especially playable. You CAN potentially minimize glitches, but nothing's for certain, and therefore not always worth the risk.

Having to host to make a character work is inconvenient, and if your lobbies tend to have lag, it's ESPECIALLY inconvenient for other players. It can also make matches with friends difficult unless you're willing to trade off, and that's just a hassle. For example, if you wanted to do some of the themed challenges (which I personally enjoy), some of them are made more difficult when it comes to characters with low off-host reliability.

Also, the fact that people find her less than playable because of these shortcomings in functionality doesn't mean they're being influenced by "bias and ignorance." Sometimes (not always in this player base, but occasionally) when a lot of people agree on something, there's a good reason for it.

All that said, I like the Cabal overall, but the fact that I just happen to normally play on-host (because of issues of lag and framerate differences with friends) does give me a certain bias, and I'm aware of that. When I'm off-host I almost never use vanguards because I agree that they're not really playable.

Kroguard and Batguard are fine off-host even on Platinum given their high health/shields, the reast can be quite a challenge. I used to play the Smashguard off host but not anymore concidering how annoying it can be.

[akots1]

Kroguard and Batguard are fine off-host even on Platinum given their high health/shields, the reast can be quite a challenge. I used to play the Smashguard off host but not anymore concidering how annoying it can be.

This and also, slayer is fine off host in most cases. Just the phase disruptor does not hit occasionally. Asari vanguard works reasonably well off host.

[Darth Volus]

The biggest issues with the Cabal are: 

 

1. You have to compromise - either Geth Scanner or Grenade Capacity. If you want to Poison Strike and know where everything is - you have to pick Geth Scanner and only carry 2-3 Blades, which sucks. If you pick Grenade Capacity, you will have 7-8 Blades/your DPS will increase drastically (you can now take on 4 Phantoms at once if you want and spam them to death) and Thermal Packs will be much more practical to use to refill them, but you will not know where the enemy is, thus Poison Striking through obstacles can and will bring you into unenviable positions.  

 

2. Striking makes you lose sight of the enemy, you have to constantly "find" them, this wastes time, puts you in danger and is not very effective, compared to other kits, that will wipe spawns with ease.  

 

3. In this game only DPS and the death of the enemy as fast as possible really matters, so "disengaging and fighting on your own terms" just wastes time and accomplishes nothing. So going around meleeing things will only work if your team is rather scrubby and can't kill fast, but if you get experienced teammates - they will wipe out spawns with grenades, tech/biotic explosions and gunfire faster than you kill 1 Husk with melee. 

 

4. Melee in general sucks on big/open maps. While you're doing that and trying to lock on to that Centurion trough smoke - an Atlas has already railed you twice from the other end of the map and is sending an unavoidable rocket up your ass. 

[Deerber]

The biggest issues with the Cabal are: 

 

1. You have to compromise - either Geth Scanner or Grenade Capacity. If you want to Poison Strike and know where everything is - you have to pick Geth Scanner and only carry 2-3 Blades, which sucks. If you pick Grenade Capacity, you will have 7-8 Blades/your DPS will increase drastically (you can now take on 4 Phantoms at once if you want and spam them to death) and Thermal Packs will be much more practical to use to refill them, but you will not know where the enemy is, thus Poison Striking through obstacles can and will bring you into unenviable positions.  

 

2. Striking makes you lose sight of the enemy, you have to constantly "find" them, this wastes time, puts you in danger and is not very effective, compared to other kits, that will wipe spawns with ease.  

 

3. In this game only DPS and the death of the enemy as fast as possible really matters, so "disengaging and fighting on your own terms" just wastes time and accomplishes nothing. So going around meleeing things will only work if your team is rather scrubby and can't kill fast, but if you get experienced teammates - they will wipe out spawns with grenades, tech/biotic explosions and gunfire faster than you kill 1 Husk with melee. 

 

4. Melee in general sucks on big/open maps. While you're doing that and trying to lock on to that Centurion trough smoke - an has Atlas already railed you twice from the other end of the map and is sending an unavoidable rocket up your ass. 

 

And 5. Her dodge is glitched as **** in that it will teleport in place if you happen to select a not viable position to teleport to (which happens something like 40% of the times on some maps).

[RYGELthe16TH]

It don't, bring that build to off-host platinum where it really counts (gold is trivial regardless of kit/build/gun after all) and you will see that that kit is a glitched mess that could have worked perfectly if they did it right.

 

Sounds like you're only interested in playing off-host on platinum. If that's all you're interested in, then (like the first 15 seconds of my video says) this probably isn't for you. That's too bad. I think you'll be missing out on a lot of fun.

 

If avoiding glitches with a character or power requires a specific set of parameters, that makes a character less playable. Vanguards off-host are not especially playable. You CAN potentially minimize glitches, but nothing's for certain, and therefore not always worth the risk.

 

Having to host to make a character work is inconvenient, and if your lobbies tend to have lag, it's ESPECIALLY inconvenient for other players. It can also make matches with friends difficult unless you're willing to trade off, and that's just a hassle. For example, if you wanted to do some of the themed challenges (which I personally enjoy), some of them are made more difficult when it comes to characters with low off-host reliability.

 

Also, the fact that people find her less than playable because of these shortcomings in functionality doesn't mean they're being influenced by "bias and ignorance." Sometimes (not always in this player base, but occasionally) when a lot of people agree on something, there's a good reason for it.

 

All that said, I like the Cabal overall, but the fact that I just happen to normally play on-host (because of issues of lag and framerate differences with friends) does give me a certain bias, and I'm aware of that. When I'm off-host I almost never use vanguards because I agree that they're not really playable.

 

Sounds like you really don't want to host and like you consider classes that are best on-host unplayable. That's fine, but I hope you reconsider sometime. I think you'll be missing out on a lot of fun.

 

The biggest issues with the Cabal are: 

 

1. You have to compromise - either Geth Scanner or Grenade Capacity. If you want to Poison Strike and know where everything is - you have to pick Geth Scanner and only carry 2-3 Blades, which sucks. If you pick Grenade Capacity, you will have 7-8 Blades/your DPS will increase drastically (you can now take on 4 Phantoms at once if you want and spam them to death) and Thermal Packs will be much more practical to use to refill them, but you will not know where the enemy is, thus Poison Striking through obstacles can and will bring you into unenviable positions.  

 

2. Striking makes you lose sight of the enemy, you have to constantly "find" them, this wastes time, puts you in danger and is not very effective, compared to other kits, that will wipe spawns with ease.  

 

3. In this game only DPS and the death of the enemy as fast as possible really matters, so "disengaging and fighting on your own terms" just wastes time and accomplishes nothing. So going around meleeing things will only work if your team is rather scrubby and can't kill fast, but if you get experienced teammates - they will wipe out spawns with grenades, tech/biotic explosions and gunfire faster than you kill 1 Husk with melee. 

 

4. Melee in general sucks on big/open maps. While you're doing that and trying to lock on to that Centurion trough smoke - an has Atlas already railed you twice from the other end of the map and is sending an unavoidable rocket up your ass. 

 

Sounds like you have a specific playstyle you enjoy and it involves overwhelming power and tankiness and a direct frontal assault. Sounds like you aren't interested in trying something different or changing up those tactics. That's fine, but I encourage you to try something new. I think you'll be missing out on a lot of fun.

[Catastrophy]

I'm doing it wrong? Oh my - all these years and I never knew.

[Tupari]

If poison strike wasn't completely inferior to biotic charge, that ability all the other vanguards have, I might like the cabal better.

[yrael]

"Sounds like you really don't want to host" lol

 

 

also maybe all these post "sound like" a certain thing to you, but that's probably because you're willfully misinterpreting what we're saying so you can feel superior about your preferences, bro

 

Not sure if good troll or awful one.

[Caineghis2500]

This is BSN OP. There's nothing new under the sun here in regards to ME3:MP. We've seen this build before... Good gameplay tho

[RYGELthe16TH]

Not sure if good troll or awful one.

 

Not trolling at all. Just misunderstood your first post, and a little confused by the wording of your second... Re-reading...

 

I think I get it now: You're okay with hosting. You find the cabal very buggy. You play her anyway, but you understand how others might call her unplayable because they don't want to host or can't stand bugginess.

 

If I'm understanding you correctly there:  

I agree that the cabal can be very buggy. Maybe it's so bad for some people that they just can't, and that's fine.

 

My point is that too many people are using bugginess as an excuse to never really explore the class. Newcomers should be warned that the cabal can be buggy. But a blink-heavy playstyle is entirely viable, and I think the community should acknowledge that. Not dismiss it.

[RYGELthe16TH]

I'm doing it wrong? Oh my - all these years and I never knew.

 

That's okay. It's never too late to learn. 

 

(that's a joke)

 

If poison strike wasn't completely inferior to biotic charge....

 

I've heard something like this so many times...No one compares throw to concussive shot, or barrier to tech armor. But half the guides to the cabal compare her unfavorably to biotic charge.

 

The reasoning always seems to go something like: 'Poison strike isn't biotic charge, and biotic charge is good, so poison strike must suck.'

 

Poison strike is it's own power and shouldn't be thought of in terms of biotic charge. If you're always thinking about poison strike in terms of biotic charge, you'll never understand it or learn how to use it. You have to see it as it is, and change your technique accordingly.

 

I go over this in the video, so, check it out.

 

This is BSN OP. There's nothing new under the sun here in regards to ME3:MP. We've seen this build before... Good gameplay tho

 

I'm glad you liked the gameplay. I hope the ideas are useful to you.

 

I'm kind of regretting posting the build, because I think the build isn't as important as what I'm doing with it. I think what's new here is the technique and playstyle. The ideas behind how the pieces of the cabal fit together.

 

Yeah, I've heard there's nothing new a few times already.  If my technique and ideas are nothing new, please give me a name, a link, or something to help me find the source. I'd really like to talk shop with someone who thinks like me and loves the cabal like me.

[Salarian Master Race]

That's too bad. I think you'll be missing out on a lot of fun.

 

 

That's fine, but I hope you reconsider sometime. I think you'll be missing out on a lot of fun.

 

 

That's fine, but I encourage you to try something new. I think you'll be missing out on a lot of fun.

 

I really tried to like the Cabal.  Over the years, I've played damn near every build imaginable for her, and granted there are numerous ways to build and play her, but the long story short is that between the glitches, and the fact that there is not one single build that she does that some other kit doesn't do better, means that if I pick her, I think I'm missing out on a lot of fun.

[Arkhne]

 

I've run with a power amp many times. I agree, the damage from poison strike is very solid, and with short cooldowns, stagger-lock becomes possible. Sometimes "bad opinions" are just bold experiments. They can lead to really great ideas.

 

Yes, cool and stylish > practical.

 

You might want to be careful about agreeing with me. I don't exactly stand in high regard here... mostly because I have heretical ideas about guns and characters, and am not afraid to voice them, despite overwhelming opposition.

[Deerber]

I really tried to like the Cabal. Over the years, I've played damn near every build imaginable for her, and granted there are numerous ways to build and play her, but the long story short is that between the glitches, and the fact that there is not one single build that she does that some other kit doesn't do better, means that if I pick her, I think I'm missing out on a lot of fun.

Yeah. If her mobility wasn't so highly susceptible to bullshit, she would have a lot of potential. The way it is, she's lots of fun till you start getting bullshitted, and then it's just a frustrating experience.