134 réponses à ce sujet

[Darth Volus]

OP, you talk about "dancing" with the Cabal and stringing moves, which sounds cool on paper and believe me, I tried that many times in the past, but it never really works. 

 

Why? First of all why do we like the Cabal dodge? Because it's instant compared to Fury/Slayer who do a little pause before dodging. So chaining dodges with the Cabal is not a problem (as long as you don't glitch and dodge in the same place) Why do we like Biotic Focus? Because you press a button and you get shields back with no delay, just like Repair Matrix on the SexBot (they don't do that "pressing the belly button" animation to activate Stimulant Packs, like the Ghost/Havoc do)

 

But with all other moves (Poison Strike, Melee, Nightshade Blades) the Cabal pauses for a brief moment before doing them. And and in CQC it's a big no no, because you can easily get knocked out of your animation and you have no i-frames.. And with all those moves you lose momentum, you can't sprint and go into Poison Strike fluidly in one motion, you can't even chain 2 Strikes without a significant pause in between. 

 

In your head you may imagine a cool Hollywood movie with fluid choreography (like the Matrix for example), so you think - imma sprint, go into poison strike, fire blades, melee then poison strike out, all in watery like motions. In reality it goes like this. Sprint, pause, pause to do the squat animation into poison strike, pause to do the hand animation to fire blades, fire blades, pause to do the squat into melee, pause to do the squat into poison strike. I could get myself a sandwich during those pauses. 

 

So you may call it dancing, but it's a dance were you constantly trip yourself and step on your partners feet    

[GruntKitterhand]

 

So you may call it dancing, but it's a dance were you constantly trip yourself and step on your partners feet    

 

I liked the whole wall of text ( ) but this sums it up nicely. The OP's video compares the Cabal's free-flowing improvisation to jazz. Sadly, the reality is usually much more like Ferris Bueller's 'never had a single lesson' clarinet-playing than any genuine kind of B!tches Brew. 

 

I will still happily advocate a melee build for the Cabal on the basis that it is fun and helps to mitigate some of the hosting issues around Poison Strike, but I won't try to oversell it, with or without PS, because there's still too much glitchy BS to put up with. I've had a lot of fun with her, and I'll continue to have a lot of fun with her, but I'm a very laid-back player who has learned to adapt to off-host play over thousands of hours. It's not that I believe fundamentally that Biotic Charge is better than PS, just different. Skipping BC on any Vanguard is completely inconceivable to all but the most ardent hipsters, on or off host, but PS on the Cabal is at least a non-essential power for non-hosting players. Skipping it might make her less effective, but I think it also makes her more playable overall.

[Lvca_gr]

Personally, I very much prefer the no melee double dash builds, maxing the Blades (this one is mine) which, thanks to the double stagger, will save your life more often than a dodge that doesn't work that well. If off-host/bad map you can still fall back to a Grenadeless BatSol Impersonator. I doesn't help that I find her melee a bit bland, probably because of the sound. 

 

She's really fun on Gold, Platinum i've only played a couple games and one was London Collectors 

[Darth Volus]

I liked the whole wall of text ( ) but this sums it up nicely. The OP's video compares the Cabal's free-flowing improvisation to jazz. Sadly, the reality is usually much more like Ferris Bueller's 'never had a single lesson' clarinet-playing than any genuine kind of B!tches Brew. 

 

I will still happily advocate a melee build for the Cabal on the basis that it is fun and helps to mitigate some of the hosting issues around Poison Strike, but I won't try to oversell it, with or without PS, because there's still too much glitchy BS to put up with. I've had a lot of fun with her, and I'll continue to have a lot of fun with her, but I'm a very laid-back player who has learned to adapt to off-host play over thousands of hours. It's not that I believe fundamentally that Biotic Charge is better than PS, just different. Skipping BC on any Vanguard is completely inconceivable to all but the most ardent hipsters, on or off host, but PS on the Cabal is at least a non-essential power for non-hosting players. Skipping it might make her less effective, but I think it also makes her more playable overall.

 

Well, I would never skip PS, just because it does help you escape and traverse maps in ways no one can. And it does detonate my Incendiary ammo 

[GruntKitterhand]

Well, I would never skip PS, just because it does help you escape and traverse maps in ways no one can. And it does detonate my Incendiary ammo 

 

Just to be clear - I have access to 3 Cabals. 1 has 6 ranks in PS, 1 has 4, 1 has 0. The one without PS is on a semi-retired a/c, but it was undoubtedly the easiest one to play off-host, and as such the fun factor rose for me. But in terms of power output in optimal circumstances, there's no contest.

[RYGELthe16TH]

OP, you talk about "dancing" with the Cabal and stringing moves, which sounds cool on paper and believe me, I tried that many times in the past, but it never really works...  with all other moves (Poison Strike, Melee, Nightshade Blades) the Cabal pauses for a brief moment before doing them... I could get myself a sandwich during those pauses. 

 

So you may call it dancing, but it's a dance were you constantly trip yourself and step on your partners feet    

 

  I used the word 'dance' because that's what the video footage from that section looked like to me. Maybe it's just me, then. 

 

Don't most actions in the game have some animation? Nothing fits perfectly together. The pauses seem pretty short for me. I use the animation time to aim the next target and hold 'f' or tap one. You don't have to wait for the animation to end to queue up the next action. That moves things smoothly from one animation to the next. You can also double or triple tap the poison strike key to strike twice without delay. I don't think I do it much in the video, because I've often got something different in mind.

 

If it doesn't look as fast as I'm describing in the video, it's not because that's not possible, it's because I'm only moving as fast as I need to for the situation, and I'm relying on staggers and anticipation of enemy reactions to avoid getting staggered myself.

 

I like your point, though. I used to think exactly the same thing. "This class would be perfect if the animations were quicker". At some point, I learned how to work it enough that it doesn't bother me.

 

BUT, you're point is a good one, and I appreciate you bringing it up. Thanks.

 

The OP's video compares the Cabal's free-flowing improvisation to jazz. Sadly, the reality is usually much more like Ferris Bueller's 'never had a single lesson' clarinet-playing than any genuine kind of B!tches Brew. 

 

I will still happily advocate a melee build for the Cabal on the basis that it is fun and helps to mitigate some of the hosting issues around Poison Strike, but I won't try to oversell it, with or without PS, because there's still too much glitchy BS to put up with. I've had a lot of fun with her, and I'll continue to have a lot of fun with her, but I'm a very laid-back player who has learned to adapt to off-host play over thousands of hours. It's not that I believe fundamentally that Biotic Charge is better than PS, just different. Skipping BC on any Vanguard is completely inconceivable to all but the most ardent hipsters, on or off host, but PS on the Cabal is at least a non-essential power for non-hosting players. Skipping it might make her less effective, but I think it also makes her more playable overall.

 

That's fair. I meant 'jazz' in a more of a 'you have to think on your feet' kind of way. But yeah, it's not easy to do, and it can easily be a huge mess. Thanks for the solid input.

[Darth Volus]

^ Pauses in animations exist in many kits, but most of them don't fight at close range. So if it takes you a moment to fire incinerate at things. who cares, you're not point blank starring at a Brute. 

 

Also, if we talk about your weapons choice - the Wraith, which is an excellent weapon by all means, but it's slow. Slow to fire and slow to reload, and you'll have to reload after every 2 shots, which adds more pauses. You have to break your sprint to reload time and time again, which kills the rhythm and flow for me.  

 

Another thing - Cabal has no gap closer at all. The Blades have very limited range, PS has very limited range. She has no way to close in on the enemy in relative safety. With other melee kits like the Krogan or Batarian I can usually toss a grenade and while the enemy is panicking, close the gap to headbutt them. With the melee Infiltrators I can cloak and run towards them. With the Cabal you have none of that. You pretty much have to soak damage and rely on Focus for shield boost.  

 

And that is why I take the Lancer on the Cabal. It's light, no reloads --> more time moving, it has range so I can shoot enemies to cause them to dodge and then close the distance and I have a weapon to fend of enemies from afar while hacking or escorting.  

[Miniditka77]

^ Pauses in animations exist in many kits, but most of them don't fight at close range. So if it takes you a moment to fire incinerate at things. who cares, you're not point blank starring at a Brute. 

 

Also, if we talk about your weapons choice - the Wraith, which is an excellent weapon by all means, but it's slow. Slow to fire and slow to reload, and you'll have to reload after every 2 shots, which adds more pauses. You have to break your sprint to reload time and time again, which kill rhythm and flow for me.  

 

Another thing - Cabal has no gap closer at all. The Blades have very limited range, PS has very limited range. She has no way to close in on the enemy in relative safety. With other melee kits like the Krogan or Batarian I can usually toss a grenade and while the enemy is panicking, close the gap to headbutt them. With the melee Infiltrators I can cloak and run towards them. With the Cabal you have none of that. You pretty much have to soak damage and rely on Focus for shield boost.  

 

And that is why I take the Lancer on the Cabal. It's light, no reloads --> more time moving, it has range so I can shoot enemies to cause them to dodge and then close the distance and I have a weapon to fend of enemies from afar while hacking or escorting.  

 

To be fair, the Cabal's melee is her gap-closer.  Maybe not on London or something, but on any relatively enclosed map.

 

As others said before, this play style works fine on Gold, where most of the enemies are able to be quickly dispatched.  Probably not going to work very well on Platinum though.

 

BTW, I like the Lancer on the Cabal too.  Turian Stability really helps, as tracking while firing with the Lancer can be challenging on classes with no stability bonus.

[Salarian Master Race]

The people that play her as a grenadespamharrierbot aren't doin it wrong. Bioware's the one who did it wrong.

 

A harrierbot that can steal the Drell's grenades!  Now THAT sounds like a lot of fun!

[Miniditka77]

I actually tried the Double Dash Cabal last night, just to see if there was something I'm missing.  Instead, I discovered another bug.  If I did the first Poison Strike and then used Biotic Focus before using the second Poison Strike, I was locked out of Poison Strike until the Biotic Focus duration was up.  Fortunately, I didn't take the duration option, so the duration was only like 15 seconds, but still very annoying.

 

I don't know if anyone has seen this before, and it's the first time I have noticed it.  So I don't know whether it's a bug that always happens, or whether it just happened in this particular game.  And yes, I was hosting.