7 réponses à ce sujet

[TheBlackAdder13]

So I'm just now getting round to reading the World of Thedas Volume 2 and just finished the abridged version of the chant. After reading the last canticle, the Canticle of Exaltations, which is supposed to be the equivalent of the real world Revelations in the Bible, I'm starting to think that Drakon actually had a legitimate prophecy/vision and that he didn't just write it for political purposes. Namely based on these verses. It's not a perfect fit -- or even chronological, but I think the idea might be that the Dragon Age is when the Maker will finally return (as Chantry lore teaches) as I think he was witnessing events within the Dragon Age. (I'm not saying whether or not the Maker is real or if he will return -- I'm just interested in the fact that Drakon seems to have had a legitimate vision and am interested in the implication it has for future games going forward, especially in relation to Solas and the Veil):

 

The air itself rent asunder, spilling light unearthly from the waters of the Fade. Opening as an eye to look upon the Realm of Opposition in dire judgement.

 

Sounds like Corypheus opening the breach. (I think the "realm of opposition" would be Thedas/the material world.) Of course, if Solas actually manages to bring down the Veil, it could also be referring to that or both those things. 

 

 

 

And in that baleful eye I saw the Lady of Sorrow, armored in Light, Holding in her left hand the scepter of redemption. She descended from on high and a great voice thundered from the top of every mountain and pinnacle across creation;  All heads bow! All knees bend! Every being in the realm of opposition pay homage, for the Maker of all things is returned to you.

 

Given the fact that many people who went on to form the inquisition at the beginning of the game misinterpreted the spirit of Divine Justinia as Andraste herself when she guides the inquisitor out of the fade, Drakon also could have followed for this misinterpretation in his vision, mistaking the Divine helping out the inquisitor for Andraste. Additionally, the "scepter of redemption" could refer to the mark/anchor used to close the breach/veil tears as it's on the inquisitor's left hand (meaning that in the prophecy, Drakon seems to be conflating Andraste/the Divine with the Herald of Andraste.) The voice thundering from "the top of every mountain" could be a reference to Skyhold in the Frostbacks as the Herald of Andraste expands Andraste's influence across southern Thedas building the Inquisition, a force to be reckoned with, throughout the game and many begin to regard the Herald as the voice of Andraste. 

 

 

 

 

Seven times seventy men of stone immense rose up from the earth like sleepers walked at the dawn. Crossing the land with strides immeasurable, and in the hollows of their footprints paradise was tamped, indelible.

 

The "men of stone" seems to refer to the titans awakening once again and once more shaping the earth. Of course, so far we've only see one Titan barely begin to stir once the breach opens. Maybe once Solas brings down the veil, the Titans will awaken once again? Incidentally, the verse seems to be implying that there are either 490 titans sleeping across the earth, or that each Titan is about 490 feet tall. ("Seven times seventy") I think the latter is maybe more likely as 490 is kind of a lot of titans. 

 

 

 

and I heard from the east a great cry as men who were beasts warred with their brethrean, tooth and claw against blade and bow, until one could no longer be told from the other, and cursed them and cursed their generations.

 

This one is perhaps the hardest to fit into the context of Inquisition but it does seem exactly like what happened in Origins between Zathrian's tribe and the werewolves. (Fereldan is obviously to the east of Orlais.) But as the prophecy could be referring to the Dragon Age generally instead of specific events, this could be one of the things Drakon witnessed in his prophecy even though it's not directly tied to the breach/the veil coming down. Alternatively, I've seen it speculated that this could refer to the events in the Jaws of Hakkon, which still qualifies to the east and is more in keeping with the theme of these events happening in/around the Frostbacks. However, like the werewolf theory, this doesn't really have anything to do with the breach/the veil. 

 

 

 

 

 

And those who slept, the ancient ones, awoke, for their dreams had been devoured by a demon that prowled the Fade as a wolf hunts a herd of deer. Taking first the weakest and frailest of hopes, and when there was nothing left, Destroying the bright and bold by subtlety and ambush and cruel arts.

 

This is very, very conspicuously a reference to Solas and the Evanarus. "Those who slept" seems to refer to whatever prison Solas devised for the Evanurus and the use of the analogy indicating that a wolf was hunting them in the Fade is certainly a reference to the Dread Wolf. The second sentence could refer to what Solas is doing to the Evanurus in their prisons or it could refer to what the Evanurus do to the mortals once the veil falls and they're released. (I think the latter is more likely.) Obviously this didn't happen as a result of Corypheus opening the breach as the Inquisitor stopped him but that's exactly what Solas intended to happen until he discovered that Corypheus knew how to cheat death. Nonetheless, Solas's plan is pretty much the same as what Corypheus intended in that it involves tearing down the veil so it's likely that we'll see the Evanurus released in future games as the result of veil tear. As an aside, I haven't read the comics, but one of them is called "Those Who Sleep." I think it's a reference from Yavana to the dragons under her care. But since the dragons seem to be related to the Evanurus, this seems like an apt description for them. 

 

 

 

The ninth sacred mountain upon which rests the mortal dust of our Lady ascended. Whole into the heavens to be given high honor in the Realm of Dreams forever. And around it, a chorus of spirits sang: Whoasoever passes through the first is not lost, but made eternal; As air can never be broken nor crushed, the tempered soul is everlasting."

 

The mountain in question is pretty clearly supposed to be the one with Haven and the Temple of Sacred Ashes as that's where Andraste's "mortal dust" was. It certainly "ascends" into the heavens at the end of Inquistion when Corypheus opens a second breach and lifts the temple and surrounding mountain up into the air during the final battle. Not sure about the chorus of spirits though -- perhaps it's a reference to the Well of Sorrows -- which seems to be composed of spirits devoted to Mythal. The whispers in either the Inquisitior's or Morrigan's head or integral to figuring out how to kill Corypheus permanently. So the spirits who comprise the well of sorrows are singing about how they're eternal, not actually dead because their souls remain forever. (First in the well and now in either the Inquisitior or Morrigan.)

 

Thoughts? 

[Reznore57]

I agree...first time I read it I actually went : what the hell!?!

 

Lots of things in the Chant are vague enough when it comes to great magical facts , you have also lots of historical accounts about Tevinter and some ancients tribe etc...

It's very human centric in its scope .

 

And then you have Drakon's vision giving lots of details, perhaps talking about Titans and Evanuris , describing something close to what happened with the Breach...

So yeah it is freaky .

 

I think it's also interesting there's talk of the 7 gates of the Golden City being destroyed (at least if memory serves there's talk of that)

It is supposed to be the Maker house but 7 is the number of Old Gods.

There's talk of darkness which I assume is the Blight (Flemythal call the Blight  darkness a number of time ) and the fact that the Blight and the Light (sort of the Maker divine power I assume) are the same thing.

It basically says the Blight is somekind of illusion ...of course that's where the verse starts to be less interesting because it says all you need is to pierce through the illusion with faith and then everything will be just dandy.

The Maker will come back , Andraste will come back , everybody is going to be happy!

 

But anyway yeah it's freaky because it's the first time a vision has so much details , and some thing seems to have happened already (the Breach).

[Bayonet Hipshot]

The thing is, Chantry is supposed to view anyone's visions except Andraste's as heretical. Remember Leliana with her vision and how the other Chantry members reacted to that ?

 

Still, you have to wonder who gave Drakon these visions in the first place. Any guesses ?

[Gervaise]

When I first read this prophesy I thought there is an awful lot that is familiar here and like you I made certain connections but others seemed difficult.   The thing is it is meant to a prophesy about the end of the world.   So if the first part is relating to events in DAI, then the bit after Andraste's Ashes are raised to heaven is still to come.   Plus, of course, the ashes were no longer on the mountain at the time of the Conclave.   I'm sure there is a codex somewhere that confirmed the Guardian took them somewhere else not long after the visit of the Warden.  I'll have to see if I can find it.   Anyone else remember this?

 

What this Canticle does do is explain why they thought you were the Herald of Andraste and why they might have believed it was her in the Fade.   Drakon is a very important figure in the southern Chantry, he founded it after all, and actually the Chantry is his personal version of Andrstrianism, since he wiped out all the others that were around during his time.   The cult at Haven was the sole survivor of his purges in the south.   On another post some of us have agreed it should really be called Drakonism.  

 

So a huge hole appears in the Sky and people recall the opening lines of Exaltations.   Then the soldiers appear with someone they saw walking out of the Fade, with a woman apparently still in the Fade behind them.    This person proves able to close rifts using the mark on their hand and initially plugs the hole so it stops expanding.    This gift could only have come from the Maker, via Andraste.   Therefore the women in the Fade must be Andraste preparing to return to the world with the Maker and you are the one who has been chosen to announce it.   It is actually one of the few things about the behaviour of the faithful that actually makes sense.  

 

Later of course you defeat the great evil, the darkspawn Magister, which as Leliana points out have always been the ultimate villains and opponents of the Maker, but then the world doesn't end.   Andraste and the Maker do not return and make the world a paradise.    Which is probably why the lustre goes off your title a little over the next two years, making it easier for the nobles to scheme against you.

 

So if it was a genuine prophesy it is more likely of the events to come, if Solas succeeds in tearing down the Veil.    I'm more inclined to think that it was just something fanciful on Drakon's part.   He probably believed it, much as Leliana believed her "vision" but it doesn't mean it was genuine.

 

While on the subject of prophesy, what about the Order of Fiery Promise?    They believe that the world is so corrupt and broken that the only way forward is to cleanse it with fire and then begin again.   Sound familiar?    Did Solas accidentally get into their dreams?  

[Melbella]

Plus, of course, the ashes were no longer on the mountain at the time of the Conclave.   I'm sure there is a codex somewhere that confirmed the Guardian took them somewhere else not long after the visit of the Warden.  I'll have to see if I can find it.   Anyone else remember this?

 
I think that part only happens if you don't kill the dragon. If you kill the dragon, and let the world know about the ashes, pilgrims come to the site. If the dragon isn't killed, then when people later come back to the temple, the ashes are gone.

From the wiki:
http://dragonage.wik...logue_(Origins)

A deal was not made with Kolgrim

◾High dragon is dead

“Some years later, the Chantry announced that the resting place of Andraste's Ashes had indeed been found. A ripple of excitement spread among the pious people of Thedas, with many undertaking pilgrimages to see the Ashes or partake of their healing powers.”

◾High dragon is not dead

“Some years later, the Chantry announced that the resting place of Andraste's Ashes had indeed been found. They were located, however, in ruins that were also the lair of a high dragon, thus proving too dangerous to approach. Many made demands to secure the Ashes so that followers could undertake pilgrimages to partake of their healing powers.”
“Following numerous failed attempts to deal with the dragon, the beast finally flew off to find another haven... but leaving the mountaintop sanctum in ruins. An excavation found no traces of the Urn.”
“People began to doubt that the Ashes had ever been found, while others claimed that a cult of Andraste's followers stole them from the temple. Still others say that the Maker Himself removed the Urn, deeming mankind unworthy of it. For now, what happened to the Urn is simply unknown...”

[Gervaise]

I was checking it out on the Keep and there is nowhere there to actually record whether or not you killed the dragon, only whether or not you defiled the ashes.   So in the case of not defiling the ashes it probably reverts to the not killing the dragon scenario, with the Guardian taking them elsewhere.    Otherwise where would the Guardian and the Gauntlet fit in?    I must admit, I don't know what happens if you do defile the ashes.    Is there a different codex in game?    It is odd but the entry about  Tamar in World of Thedas says that after the hero of Ferelden's discovery of the Temple, the Chantry took great interest in the Temple and sent soldiers to reclaim it.   It says what was left of the cult was forced out of the area but in the interests of keeping things vague (because of different choices by player) there is nothing about the dragon (assumed killed by soldiers if not by the Warden) or the ashes.    

 

I could have sworn there was something in game though but can't for the life of me remember where and can't find it now.   May be I dreamt it.   I did that a lot when I was first playing DAI.   It was very disorientating when I woke up and found myself in the real world, my dreams were that immersive.   I even had one that seemed to be a foretaste of the Descent months before it was even announced.   Now that was spooky.

[MisterJB]

Yeah, Drakon was the real deal.

[IllustriousT]

Nostradamus stuff – Fun times

 

In the line “Whatsoever passes through the fire is not lost, but made eternal.” Passing through the fire – makes them eternal (maybe not literally, but in name – Herald of Andraste). That with the “Blade of Faith,” (the anchor) she will lead them from the darkness (possibly Veil or Fade).

Drakon claims to have seen the “darkness warp and crumble, for it was thin as samite,” which could mean the Veil, and that the destruction of the Veil turned the “light” into “ash.”  Essentially, covering the world with darkness (Fade).

 

From within this darkness, the Maker returns “clad in the majesty of the sky,” possibly bringing back the light from the darkness, or brings with him/her the feeling of the sky “freedom, liberation.” All warring ceases, the “vicious beasts” may mean the Qunari at war with Tevinter. The end of the war ends with the freeing of the slaves as the “meek lambs” become “bold and [rise] up, casting aside their shepherds to dance at the Maker’s feet.”

 

The Maker, I am sure will always not truly be THE Maker, I believe that will always be ambiguous, but just as the Divine was thought to be Andraste, and the Inquisitor her Herald, it could be some “creator” as in the Evanuris. So, if the Evanuris ARE freed and in turn end the war with the Qunari and free the slaves, but there is so many possible outcomes. 1.) The Qunari, theorized to be a mix of elf and dragon could be dealt with in means such as destruction or restoration of their original form. 2.) The meek lambs could be the elves since they are often also represented by Halla, a herd animal. It could just mean all races.

 

Together with those who have been freed, the Maker and Andraste go to Minrathrous in the aftermath of some cataclysmic event (war possibly, broken veil, and/or Solas), to show their forgiveness through the “light of redemption,” and there “the Lady of Restitution (restoration of something lost) will begin to build.  So, the “Maker” and “Andraste” return to help rebuild what was once lost. This could be something along the lines of what Solas wants – to rebuild what was lost. It could be that the “Maker” and “Andraste” could be part of the Elvhen Pantheon, and may resort to enslavement, by enslaving a people, this could end war, just not in the ideal way. If they want to be worshiped, they would create the proper circumstances to optimize that (what once was).  If Solas’ plan stops that, then that would be a good thing. Yet, his plan could be the reason the Evanuris are freed, since his plans don’t always work out as intended.  

 

That was Friday fun at work   and obviously pure speculation. I hope Bioware goes a bit darker the next time around.