195 réponses à ce sujet

[Eshaye]

Ryuuichi009 wrote...

To me RPG = your character build determining his/her prowess in battle. So would ME2 be an rpg to me?

To me that's not an RPG, that's just rules, I don't mind if the rules bend or change over time it's bound to happen.  Linear progression and development is also getting old.

Role playing game, is a game that let's you play a role regardless of how the classes develop and how the armory/inventory now works can you say you are Shepard when you play?

That's what is important. I've gone back to ME1 for a bit so I still can't answer that, but basically that's an RPG, is there a story, are you part of it? Is BioWare's staple of choices and consequences still part of the game?

To me that what matters everything else, not so much.

[skyhouse71]

First I will say that I like ME2 and am enjoying the game so far.

However, ME1 wasn't suppose to be a shooter with RPG elements it was an RPG with shooter elements. Blame it on marketing or whatever but people picked up the game and complained about the shooting because they didn't understand that it wasn't a shooter. To me, they fundamentally changed their direction because ME2 is now a shooter, with some light RPG elements. I say light because there are only 5 or so skills to rank up and of those 2 are bullet types... and thats it. Again, I like ME2 and am enjoying the game I am just a little disappointed that they didn't stick with the ME1 formula and just try to improve upon it.

[Shipwr3K]

EchoTango wrote...

I also don't understand the massive resistance from people when concerns are voiced.
"repeat"
"this again?"

Yes, this again. This is a FORUM. This is where ME2 players go to voice their likes/dislikes. Deal with it or don't read the boards.

perhaps all the whiners should open a thread and post there, to avoid a cluster **** of threads on the same ****.

[Cloaking_Thane]

Not watered down, you can argue there is more choice in what you put it into.

ME1-----Pistol- accuacy +3% , weapon damage + 3%.......you level it up to try to get to max marksman.
ME2- they combined the Marksman levels so ME1 pistol upgrade 1-4 goes into level 1 for this one.
(This is just an example)

I dont see how this is watered down,
Less levels means choices matter more.

There were also distict advantages in Armor in ME 1 (i.e Companies)

You can customize every part of your shep armor and your teammates are the creme de la creme warriors.

Everyone ended up putting Colosus or Pred armor on anyway.

I love the uniqueness of each character and it pulls me into the universe that much more than seeing everyone running around in camo on my squad

Modifié par Cloaking_Thane, 28 janvier 2010 - 02:32 .

[abadomen]

skyhouse71 wrote...

First I will say that I like ME2 and am enjoying the game so far.
However, ME1 wasn't suppose to be a shooter with RPG elements it was an RPG with shooter elements. Blame it on marketing or whatever but people picked up the game and complained about the shooting because they didn't understand that it wasn't a shooter. To me, they fundamentally changed their direction because ME2 is now a shooter, with some light RPG elements. I say light because there are only 5 or so skills to rank up and of those 2 are bullet types... and thats it. Again, I like ME2 and am enjoying the game I am just a little disappointed that they didn't stick with the ME1 formula and just try to improve upon it.

Agreed. I have the same mentality.

I enjoyed ME1. I enjoy ME2....but they are different beasts...and there is some disappointment. 

[grumpymooselion]

Shipwr3K wrote...

EchoTango wrote...

I also don't understand the massive resistance from people when concerns are voiced.
"repeat"
"this again?"

Yes, this again. This is a FORUM. This is where ME2 players go to voice their likes/dislikes. Deal with it or don't read the boards.

perhaps all the whiners should open a thread and post there, to avoid a cluster **** of threads on the same ****.

And they can all find it using the search function or by their hive mind uplink that tells them all where it's found!

Oh wait.

[Evercrow]

Kquark wrote...

KOTOR and Drage Age are RPG games first and shooters second.

hell, shooting things in this games was very hard for me. Maybe because they weren't shooters at all.

And concerning storyline - ME2 IS the second part of trilogy. It's main purposes are not telling something original, but just build suspense and expectation for the final part, while doing a good job of pulling player in the atmosphere of the universe. Bonding with squadmates combining with their low odds of survival, plus couple of revealed secrets and unsolved mysteries for hungry fans   - that's all it need to be a decent second part.Aside from gameplay, of course.

[imperialus1]

skyhouse71 wrote...

First I will say that I like ME2 and am enjoying the game so far.
However, ME1 wasn't suppose to be a shooter with RPG elements it was an RPG with shooter elements. Blame it on marketing or whatever but people picked up the game and complained about the shooting because they didn't understand that it wasn't a shooter. To me, they fundamentally changed their direction because ME2 is now a shooter, with some light RPG elements. I say light because there are only 5 or so skills to rank up and of those 2 are bullet types... and thats it. Again, I like ME2 and am enjoying the game I am just a little disappointed that they didn't stick with the ME1 formula and just try to improve upon it.

Ok, I 'm enough of a nerd that I actually play pen and paper RPG's and honestly, massive amounts of loot, and rediculous numbers of skills do not an RPG make.

Take Shadowrun for example.  Chances are the armour that your PC starts with, will be the armour that he ends the campaign wearing.  He might go through 4 or 5 different guns over the course of a campaign.  If he's mundane, he'll likely add a bit of cyberware, but that's a major investment that'll only come about a handful of times.  Looting is not only a waste of effort, but will likely slow you down long enough for corpsec to get a trace on your position and bring in a high threat response team, turning you and your buddies into a small red paste.

Or else look at any version of D&D before 3rd edition.  There were No Skills!  Late 2nd edition had a few Non Weapon Proficiancies, but that was it, and this was the granddaddy of all RPG's.  Even Baulders Gate (remember Bioware's first game) only had weapon related skills.

[EchoTango]

PingoBlack wrote...

EchoTango wrote...

Yes, this again. This is a FORUM. This is where ME2 players go to voice their likes/dislikes. Deal with it or don't read the boards.

Last time I checked Forums mostly considered opening new topics on same subject over and over again as undesired behaviour.

In the end tho, the owners (moderators) will deal with it. And so should you.

These aren't spamming efforts.  It's not the same 3 people over and over.  People buy it, play it, dislike it, find the forum, and post about it.

This is called a backlash.  It happens.

[sjeremy7777]

I am extremely let down by the lack of RPG elements, however its Bioware's game, hence there decision. I still love the game though, as a FPS though, not RPG.

[PingoBlack]

EchoTango wrote...

These aren't spamming efforts.  It's not the same 3 people over and over.  People buy it, play it, dislike it, find the forum, and post about it.

This is called a backlash.  It happens.

I'll register my copy in few hours, when it unlocks for me on Steam. When will you?

[Trelow-LMG]

The combat in ME was so pitiful that there should have been an auto-calc button in the corner. Now it is fixed. I am happy.

Modifié par Trelow-LMG, 28 janvier 2010 - 02:54 .

[Druss99]

EchoTango wrote...

Druss99 wrote...

I dont understand this dislike for the game because its being viewed as more of a shooter. Is a great game not still a great game no matter what genre it is? Why do people limit themselves to only playing one kind of game and look with disdain on all other genres? Im not having a go at any one person in particular but it seems to be a theme on here.

I don't look to disdain to other genres.  I like action-RPG's.   They're my favourite.  However just recently I fell in love with Borderlands, which I bought because I thought it would be an ARPG, but turned out to be a shooter.  Either way, awesome game.

My point is, people aren't upset because it's just simply another type of game, they're upset because there's an obvious emotional connection to ME1, and ME2 was supposed to be an extension of that.  ME2 was supposed to make the bad things about ME1 better.  Instead they took a different approach, and seemingly redesigned major parts of the game.  Whether this is to appeal to a broader base or not, it's just not the same as ME1.

That being said, I'm enjoying it and will play it through.  But I'm still dissappointed.

Like I said im not saying its everyone or any one person doing it, it just seems to be a general theme when these threads get started. You actually seem to take a reasonable outlook on it, its not what you expected but your enjoying it for what it is, I just dont understand why more people cant take that view and stop the whining because its not their ideal RPG. Off-topic a bit, I liked the look of borderlands til i heard it didnt really have much of a story and that put me off . 

[Eshaye]

imperialus1 wrote...

Ok, I 'm enough of a nerd that I actually play pen and paper RPG's and honestly, massive amounts of loot, and rediculous numbers of skills do not an RPG make.

Take Shadowrun for example.  Chances are the armour that your PC starts with, will be the armour that he ends the campaign wearing.  He might go through 4 or 5 different guns over the course of a campaign.  If he's mundane, he'll likely add a bit of cyberware, but that's a major investment that'll only come about a handful of times.  Looting is not only a waste of effort, but will likely slow you down long enough for corpsec to get a trace on your position and bring in a high threat response team, turning you and your buddies into a small red paste.

Or else look at any version of D&D before 3rd edition.  There were No Skills!  Late 2nd edition had a few Non Weapon Proficiancies, but that was it, and this was the granddaddy of all RPG's.  Even Baulders Gate (remember Bioware's first game) only had weapon related skills.

Well done!! And exactly right, RPGs are NOT about skill developing and managing armor, that's just the progression system that really only gets tweaked over time but not really changed. Personally in ME1 I did not think it fit with the game at all. 

Mass Effect is supposed to be a cinematic story that you are part of. If that succeeds, I'm not sure I'll ever understand what RPG elements are missing.... Basically it seems to be the crap we need to micro manage but don't even actually need. A lot of people say they miss having to armor their companions and themselves, I found that totally took me out of the experience by contrast, I felt I should be keeping the same armor as on the box... Why? Because when I watch a movie or if we really were these people, you'd have ONE maybe two sets of armor and that's it!! Having to loot and wear different armor is unrealistic.

IMO anyway

[0Gabe0]

they did it for the cheese

[UHitMeInTheEar]

Zoe Dedweth wrote...

My copy arrives tomorrow - lets just say that anybody on the road between me and home after work tomorrow had better watch out.

Don't let anyone stop you.  This game is epicly awesome.

[Trelow-LMG]

Druss99 wrote...

. Off-topic a bit, I liked the look of borderlands til i heard it didnt really have much of a story and that put me off . 

 Where else can you turn midgets heads into clouds of red mist and not anyone bat an eyelash?

The story is disposable, but it's still interesting. Once you get accustomed to the floaty jumping, the combat is rather satisifying as well.

[UHitMeInTheEar]

Cloaking_Thane wrote...

Not watered down, you can argue there is more choice in what you put it into.

ME1-----Pistol- accuacy +3% , weapon damage + 3%.......you level it up to try to get to max marksman.
ME2- they combined the Marksman levels so ME1 pistol upgrade 1-4 goes into level 1 for this one.
(This is just an example)

I dont see how this is watered down,
Less levels means choices matter more.

There were also distict advantages in Armor in ME 1 (i.e Companies)

You can customize every part of your shep armor and your teammates are the creme de la creme warriors.

Everyone ended up putting Colosus or Pred armor on anyway.

I love the uniqueness of each character and it pulls me into the universe that much more than seeing everyone running around in camo on my squad

Ditto

[T3hMerc]

Wait... It doesn't get better? I only have like 6 skills to build on! What the **** Bioware!?

[khawaja07]

very happy about it but they could just add a bit more rpg elements into it.

[Matt2005usaf]

the game is awesome the way it is....nuff said.

[Cruel Writer]

All the stuff you guys complain about, equipment, skills, all these things you call rpg elements, for me have nothing to do with rpgs at all. For me that's mircomanaging.



RPG's definition is right there in the title: ROLE playing game. For me it's all about story. Is the story good? Yes. Is the fighting manageable? Yes. Are the skills varied and interesting? Yes. There's not a whole lotta them, but damn, I love my infiltrator's camouflage. So for me it passes the requirements for being both and rpg and a game I can enjoy.



Check out Jade Empire, how many "rpg elements" were there? And still it was an rpg

[EchoTango]

Druss99 wrote...

EchoTango wrote...

Druss99 wrote...

I dont understand this dislike for the game because its being viewed as more of a shooter. Is a great game not still a great game no matter what genre it is? Why do people limit themselves to only playing one kind of game and look with disdain on all other genres? Im not having a go at any one person in particular but it seems to be a theme on here.

I don't look to disdain to other genres.  I like action-RPG's.   They're my favourite.  However just recently I fell in love with Borderlands, which I bought because I thought it would be an ARPG, but turned out to be a shooter.  Either way, awesome game.

My point is, people aren't upset because it's just simply another type of game, they're upset because there's an obvious emotional connection to ME1, and ME2 was supposed to be an extension of that.  ME2 was supposed to make the bad things about ME1 better.  Instead they took a different approach, and seemingly redesigned major parts of the game.  Whether this is to appeal to a broader base or not, it's just not the same as ME1.

That being said, I'm enjoying it and will play it through.  But I'm still dissappointed.

Like I said im not saying its everyone or any one person doing it, it just seems to be a general theme when these threads get started. You actually seem to take a reasonable outlook on it, its not what you expected but your enjoying it for what it is, I just dont understand why more people cant take that view and stop the whining because its not their ideal RPG. Off-topic a bit, I liked the look of borderlands til i heard it didnt really have much of a story and that put me off . 

Yeah I was kinda let down when I got into things and realised it, but the gameplay is just so fun.  I can't even explain why.  And I can't stand Halo/GoW etc, so I thought I'd hate it.   I advise renting it for a week, level up a bit and seeing how you like it.

And thank you for the reasonable comment