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[In Exile]

Most alien stories use this trope.

In mass effect, salarians are smart, Krogan are strong and durable, Asari have magic, turians are great for military, quarians are amazing engineers, Drell are ninjas and humans...

Have potential.

I love mass effect, but i hope they move away from an underdog leading the society, or move away from making humans seem...not so special.

 

In ME1, humans were actually superior in terms of their military tactics, and technology, and particularly innovation. ME2 and ME3 nerfed humans, but in ME1 we were better. The only thing holding us back is that we were new - our population and industrial/economic base was just small, and we were at the start of our expansion. So humans simply where "the best" at a bunch of things.

 

ME2 then nerfed humans and went with this silly point. But in ME1 it was very much about a superpower taking its role as a leader of society. 

[Vortex13]

I too am tired of this trope.

 

It's not that I want to see the human perspective completely removed or anything like that, but could we please have a story where humanity isn't the center of the universe. A narrative where all the other aliens bow to our innate superiority because humanity is the only species capable of ingenuity, or has the most "diverse genes" is getting old. A game that follows the mold of a sci-fi 4X game like Stellaris, or Sword of the Stars would be a better approach to things (IMO). In those settings humanity exists, but they aren't this special snowflake god-race that controls the galaxy, something that I feel ME should try and incorporate more into their story. Humans are a small part of a much, much larger whole, and they are no better or worse than any of the other species in the galaxy. 

 

It would at least be a better take on things than having humanity out military the turians, out biotic the asari, out science the salarians, and out finance the volus... all at the same time.

 

 

EDIT:

 

I find it laughable that the games try and portray humanity as the underdog in games like ME or Halo, sure we have these mean ole aliens picking on us, but then the games routinely have us beating billions of other sentient beings at their own games with both hands tied behind our back and our eyes closed.

[capn233]

I find it laughable that the games try and portray humanity as the underdog in games like ME or Halo, sure we have these mean ole aliens picking on us, but then the games routinely have us beating billions of other sentient beings at their own games with both hands tied behind our back and our eyes closed.

 

I suppose on some level this is true.

 

 

Of course in Halo humans may not have beaten the Covenant if it weren't for the civil war and the elites joining forces with the humans.  Humans had consistently gotten their ass kicked by Covenant repeatedly, aside from some small victories by Spartans.

 

Mass Effect is probably a little different in this regard since humans start off as having some semblance of parity with the council races by the start of ME1, at least with respect to their economic and military strength if not in representation and respect.  I thought they did an ok job with the idea that the Council tries to play humanity against some of the other races.  They have a seemingly never-ending series of hoops for humanity to jump through, like using the Alliance to expand Council influence in the Attican Traverse, along with the promise that after the prove themselves Humanity can join the Council.

[Vortex13]

Of course in Halo humans may not have beaten the Covenant if it weren't for the civil war and the elites joining forces with the humans.  Humans had consistently gotten their ass kicked by Covenant repeatedly, aside from some small victories by Spartans.

 

We never felt those losses though.

 

Sure the background lore was that the Covenant were winning, but you routinely have Spartans or even regular four person ODST squads laying waste to entire armies by themselves on the ground, while severely outclassed ships were forcing defeat, or phyricc victories at worst, out of the advanced alien fleets. There never was any fear for the fate of humanity because we would routinely defeat the forces of the Covenant, Flood and Forerunners with our sheer tenacity and human ingenuity. The Elites aid us, but that is a mere footnote in the narrative and we have yet to see more of the Arbiter or other friendly Elites outside of bit cameo appearances.

 

Mass Effect is probably a little different in this regard since humans start off as having some semblance of parity with the council races by the start of ME1, at least with respect to their economic and military strength if not in representation and respect.  I thought they did an ok job with the idea that the Council tries to play humanity against some of the other races.  They have a seemingly never-ending series of hoops for humanity to jump through, like using the Alliance to expand Council influence in the Attican Traverse, along with the promise that after the prove themselves Humanity can join the Council.

 

But humanity never feels like the underdog in these scenarios. Oh no the Council doesn't respect us, and yet we have an embassy on the Citadel, with our ambassador having his own separate office no less, while the Volus and Elcor; two species that have been apart of Council Space long before humanity has; still have to share a room and have no prospects of making it onto the Council itself. 

 

This becomes even more ridiculous in ME 2 & 3 where you have a human Councilor, and human workforces filling up almost all of the positions of authority on the Citadel, and yet you have groups like Cerberus going on about human dominance and looking out for our species. We're already on the top of the pile, quite the opposite of being the underdog. 

 

I felt that the Hanar, Elcor, and Rachni would have been better candidates for that moniker than humanity ever was throughout the ME trilogy.

[FlyingSquirrel]

What's especially jarring is how ME clearly wants to draw parallels between its interspecies conflicts and real-life issues of racism, and yet apparently nobody takes much offense when broad stereotypes of personality are voiced. In ME3 at the STG lab, Shepard can say "nothing's ever simple with salarians" - take out "salarians" and substitute in any human ethnic or national group and think about how it would sound. But apparently, it's not considered offensive. It's not a Renegade dialogue choice, and the salarian on the receiving end of the comment isn't particularly bothered by it as far as I can tell. 

[straykat]

What's especially jarring is how ME clearly wants to draw parallels between its interspecies conflicts and real-life issues of racism, and yet apparently nobody takes much offense when broad stereotypes of personality are voiced. In ME3 at the STG lab, Shepard can say "nothing's ever simple with salarians" - take out "salarians" and substitute in any human ethnic or national group and think about how it would sound. But apparently, it's not considered offensive. It's not a Renegade dialogue choice, and the salarian on the receiving end of the comment isn't particularly bothered by it as far as I can tell. 

 

That's probably true... but I was distracted by how great Surkesh was.

[MrBSN2017]

No one's special. Everyone's a scavenger.

In Vigil's words, when he explained the Keepers and how they kept people from actually understanding the Citadel ------ This applies to just about everything. The only reason why humans are where they are is the same as some others. They were quick on the draw when using reaper tech. But ultimately, everyone is screwed because of this. Unless you hit a reset button.

If they are special, it's only by being a special brand of idiot.

The most advanced race in their own right though was the Geth... until they caved into the Reapers as well.

just no

[straykat]

just no

 

Just no, what?

 

I mean, talk to me Bro. How are they not scavengers? That's the Catalyst's plan. That's the main point of Sovereign's big speech ME1. It's everything you fight against Illusive Man for.

 

Just yes.

[capn233]

We never felt those losses though.

 

Sure the background lore was that the Covenant were winning, but you routinely have Spartans or even regular four person ODST squads laying waste to entire armies by themselves on the ground, while severely outclassed ships were forcing defeat, or phyricc victories at worst, out of the advanced alien fleets. There never was any fear for the fate of humanity because we would routinely defeat the forces of the Covenant, Flood and Forerunners with our sheer tenacity and human ingenuity. The Elites aid us, but that is a mere footnote in the narrative and we have yet to see more of the Arbiter or other friendly Elites outside of bit cameo appearances.

 

Not so sure this is accurate.  In CE the only person who you know survives is Master Chief.  Then with First Strike and the next game you learn a couple other people made it out.  That isn't a lot, most everybody else on Pillar of Autumn is killed on Halo, if not by the Covenant or Flood than by John and Cortana.

 

Within the confines of the game, humans don't defeat the Covenant with tenacity or anything else, they only defeat them because Master Chief and Cortana keep beating impossible odds.

 

The elites aren't a footnote in the narrative.  The UNSC has hardly anything by Halo 3, and Earth would be overrun with Flood if they weren't there to glass part of Africa.  Humans probably lose the war at Earth if they were fighting a unified Covenant.

 

Whether or not the stupidity of Covenant leaderships and their backward ways was what made humanity "special" is perhaps debatable.

 

Of course in Reach (game) everybody dies.

[LogicGunn]

Interesting topic. Historically humans discover something big then have a massive explosion of technology/exploration/culture then slow down for a bit then repeat. The discovery of the Mass Relay is a similar idea so in those terms I find it realistic.

 

The other main races have been interacting for a very long time so had the chance to fall into a calm rhythm of interactions, then humans come in, start a war with the first species they encounter and shake things up. Then have to back down a bit and find a space for them in an established, complex, multi-species society. Also fairly realistic. 

 

In the context of ME, I think it works. I don't consider humans to be "the worst" or "the best" but the new race that triggers some changes to the status quo.

[Degs29]

Well, are we actually going to be finding humans in Andromeda, or just the few we bring with us?  Might be a non-issue this time around.

[straykat]

Well, are we actually going to be finding humans in Andromeda, or just the few we bring with us?  Might be a non-issue this time around.

 

The whole ship is full of humans, I imagine. It's a big council project. And I think the Krogans (and who knows what else) are in a separate carrier, for some reason.

[FlyingSquirrel]

In general, I'd say ME was a bit "off" in terms of how long humans were supposed to have been part of this galactic community and how things felt in terms of the everyday interactions. Shepard, I suppose, is about the right age to have no memory of an alien-less human culture, but what about people like Anderson, Chakwas, Bailey, and others who may have already been growing up by the time that the relays were discovered and the First Contact War occurred?

 

I mean, look how long it takes us to get over conflicts, misunderstandings, and prejudices just between different human societies and nation-states. And yet within just 30-40 years of discovering that aliens existed at all, humans are participating in galactic commerce, colonizing planets, participating in the most powerful multispecies political structure, becoming important figures in crime syndicates, opening businesses on the Citadel, and generally being as "integrated" as almost all the other species in Council space? It felt more like humans had been part of galactic civilization for, say, 60 or 70 years at least, maybe even 100.

[straykat]

One thing I forgot to post that i think contributed to humans rising so fast: they probably want us to marginalize the Batarians. So there's a lot of colonial efforts and some military buildup (along with secret military buildup). And no one else is probably capable of providing that safe zone in the Traverse. We have a little of know-how of economically focused races, and a little bit of the Krogan.. It's a good fit for that job.

 

So we're probably given more allowances than usual. But human nature, such as it is, demands more. So we get a Spectre to boot.

[CrimsonN7]

I don't really think that all Drell are supposed to be ninjas.

 

You're right, that one asari with dem questionable eyebrows will be all the ninja we need. Welp, at least from all those mock-up ninja turtle pics I've seen of her floating around here. BSN is mean.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

We never felt those losses though.

 

Sure the background lore was that the Covenant were winning, but you routinely have Spartans or even regular four person ODST squads laying waste to entire armies by themselves on the ground, while severely outclassed ships were forcing defeat, or phyricc victories at worst, out of the advanced alien fleets. There never was any fear for the fate of humanity because we would routinely defeat the forces of the Covenant, Flood and Forerunners with our sheer tenacity and human ingenuity. The Elites aid us, but that is a mere footnote in the narrative and we have yet to see more of the Arbiter or other friendly Elites outside of bit cameo appearances.

We didn't? *looks at the Halo games where we lose several colonies, our super military world Reach, and even Earth in pretty much every way* 

 

At no point in any of the games does the UNSC fleet defeat the Covenant fleet, other than the beginning of Halo 2 but that was because it was the entirety of our fleet against less than a couple dozen Covenant ships because they made an oopsie, and even then we lost a lot more ships than the Covenant did. 

If you didn't feel fear of humanity losing, it is because you kept in mind it was a video game. The lore and games paint very bleak pictures about how humanity is on the verge of destruction or domination in every Halo game. 

I agree that after Halo 3 the Sangheili should have had a bigger presence, but now with the civil war effectively over and the scale of the enemy we are facing, I suspect them and the other races will play a bigger role. And I look forward to it. 

[Medhia_Nox]

I'm gonna take this from a different angle.

 

That all:
 

- salarians are smart

- asari are magical

- turians are warriors.

 

etc. etc.

 

makes them absolutely horrible as "races". 

 

So - instead of making humans "more special" - let's make aliens less special and put them exactly where the upjumped monkeys are - bipedal yapping viruses capable of interstellar (now galactic) infection.

[In Exile]

In general, I'd say ME was a bit "off" in terms of how long humans were supposed to have been part of this galactic community and how things felt in terms of the everyday interactions. Shepard, I suppose, is about the right age to have no memory of an alien-less human culture, but what about people like Anderson, Chakwas, Bailey, and others who may have already been growing up by the time that the relays were discovered and the First Contact War occurred?

I mean, look how long it takes us to get over conflicts, misunderstandings, and prejudices just between different human societies and nation-states. And yet within just 30-40 years of discovering that aliens existed at all, humans are participating in galactic commerce, colonizing planets, participating in the most powerful multispecies political structure, becoming important figures in crime syndicates, opening businesses on the Citadel, and generally being as "integrated" as almost all the other species in Council space? It felt more like humans had been part of galactic civilization for, say, 60 or 70 years at least, maybe even 100.

Part of the problem is that Bioware tried to copy a galactic society like Babylon 5 in terms of relative cynicism toward a Federation like ideal without any actual thought as to how that works. So you get humans who are super cool with the very fact of alien life despite that being a potentially shattering social discovery. ME is half baked in that way.

[PunchFaceReporter]

Well Humanity are the new species so they have more to prove and a lot more to lose. Other more established races, the Asari for example, have been at the top for so long it's caused them to become lazy.

I'd imagine over time Humanity would become more like the Asari.

[straykat]

Part of the problem is that Bioware tried to copy a galactic society like Babylon 5 in terms of relative cynicism toward a Federation like ideal without any actual thought as to how that works. So you get humans who are super cool with the very fact of alien life despite that being a potentially shattering social discovery. ME is half baked in that way.

 

I agree on that.. If it was up to me (which it isn't), i'd at least start off a hundred years away from the FCW.

 

 

But still humans aren't domineering or too familiar. They only want to be. Or insist to be. The bulk of the efforts is colonial harship, defense, and Batarian rape.. or Collector rape.

[In Exile]

I agree on that.. If it was up to me (which it isn't), i'd at least start off a hundred years away from the FCW.


But still humans aren't domineering or too familiar. They only want to be. Or insist to be. The bulk of the efforts is colonial harship, defense, and Batarian rape.. or Collector rape.

If we discovered sapient alien life today it would be a huge shock to a lot of institutions. Religiosity for example would have to adjust. Social views - things like the concept of how we interact with sapients, our concepts of rights. The way ME1 acts like this can all change in 30 years is crazy.

But then the very idea of the Alliance is nonsense as well.

[Medhia_Nox]

I really want this game having us kicked around by the Andromeda species. 

 

Pathfinder:  I have THE TEMPEST!

 

Andromeda race:  That's nice - we've got seventeen planets in our consortium all possessing fleets of one thousands ships or more.  Your ships full of terrified refugees in ice boxes are super kewl though. You know what?  You can land on slave colony 1275A - there's a LOVELY outpost for you there - we've informed the Overlord.

 

Batarian Refugee:  HAH!  Classic...

 

Pathfinder: Shut up...

[straykat]

It makes me wonder...... If they want us to ascend to any respectable position, then perhaps no one is powerful in the Andromeda galaxy. Maybe it experienced some catastrophe and people are just getting by. Hence the whole "Remnants" thing being fought over, once discovered. 

 

That would solve the problem of getting instantly steamrolled by some advanced race.

[In Exile]

I'd rather have humanity be the super advanced race. It's a nice inversion on the usual trope, and it would be nice to get a chance to basically play the difference between the ST Federation and mirror world empirem

[Hair Serious Business]

Humans always scoffed at but most special one?

Plz we all know Volus is scoffed most in galaxy and yet they are most special because they are biotic Gods!