13 respuestas en este tema

[PapaCharlie9]

Popular theory is that, because stamina regen is a percentage of max stamina, the Sigil of the Great Bear's debuff of halving the regen rate (from the description, "-50% mana stamina regeneration") is cancelled out, because max stamina is doubled by the Sigil. I did a test to confirm this theory and instead, at least for DW Rogue, proved that the Sigil works the way it is written, regen is halved.

Other classes will have to be tested. Mage regen works differently from Rogue and Warrior, so the popular theory may be correct for mages. All this test proves is that it is not correct for DW Rogue.

Expected passive regen rates, from the GUIDE:

Stamina/Mana Regeneration

• All characters regenerate stamina and mana passively at a fixed rate. Passive regeneration is deactivated when sustaining abilities that drain mana or stamina.
  • Warriors: 4% of max stamina per second
  • Rogue: 4% of max stamina per second
  • Mage: 6% of max mana per second
• In addition to passive regeneration, Warriors and Rogues recover a fixed amount of stamina with every autoattack. If a single autoattack strikes more than one enemy, stamina recovery will proc once for each separate strike.
  • 1-H Warriors: 5 stamina per strike.
  • 2-H Warriors: 15 stamina per strike.
  • Double Dagger Rogues: 5 stamina per strike.
  • Bow Rogues: 6 stamina per strike.

I made a video with three identically spec'd DW rogues, so there's no possibility of doubt. The passive regen debuff is very clear after the battle is completed, but it is not associated with sustained abilities. It can only be due to the Sigil. See for yourself.



Shows that for a DW Rogue, the Sigil of the Great Bear makes max stamina 2x higher, but reduces stamina regeneration by half. Inquisitor (Belinda), Sera and Cole all have identical builds and identical gear, except that Belinda has the Sigil equipped. Difficulty is Nightmare with Even Ground and Grizzly End enabled. XP level is 9 for Belinda, 8 for Sera and Cole.

Loadouts - 0:00 - 0:52: Everything is the same as much as possible, except the Sigil. Abilities and tactics are set up so that no ability, active or passive, gives Stamina.

Test 1 - 0:53: Belinda is controlled. At the end of combat (2:01), passive stamina regen for Belinda is noticeably slower than the other two identical rogues (watch the yellow circle around the character portraits upper left).

Test 2 - 2:38: Solas controlled (observer). Same result (3:18).

Test 3 - 3:54: Solas controlled (observer). Same result. Sera starts with a much lower stamina level, but catches up and passes Belinda's regen (4:56).

Test 4 - 5:28: In this test, I swapped Belinda's armor for one that does not have the Sigil equipped. Everything else is the same as previous tests. Solas controlled (observer). Now their passive regen is clearly the same, particularly after the battle, regardless of sustained ability (6:17).

[Serillen]

Edit: Apparently I'm bad at math late at night, the amount of stamina regenerating is definitely less than it should be. It looks like the regen rate is based off of the base stamina value before the stamina from the sigil gets added on. So you're getting 2 stamina per second (2% of 100 stamina) off of a 200 stamina bar which makes it look like you're regenning at 1/4th the rate.

[Bigdawg13]

Not sure the bug you found is new.  

 

https://forum.biowar...2#entry19694150

 

https://forum.biowar...3#entry19732446

 

https://forum.biowar...3#entry19735482

 

Wouldn't be the first time you get a bug where the penalty sticks but not the bonus.

[PapaCharlie9]

Not sure the bug you found is new.  
 
https://forum.biowar...2#entry19694150
 
https://forum.biowar...3#entry19732446
 
https://forum.biowar...3#entry19735482
 
Wouldn't be the first time you get a bug where the penalty sticks but not the bonus.

Huh. I haven't seen that bug in my testing. Whoever has the Sigil has 2x max stamina, even after zeroing out.

What I was reporting isn't a bug report, it's a confirmation that the Sigil works exactly as its written description says.

[Bigdawg13]

Huh. I haven't seen that bug in my testing. Whoever has the Sigil has 2x max stamina, even after zeroing out.

What I was reporting isn't a bug report, it's a confirmation that the Sigil works exactly as its written description says.

 

Wait wait wait.  You're title says the theory is debunked.  So which is it?  Is it ridiculously low stamina regen or do they cancel out????

 

My point is that sigil of the bear has been shone to be buggy in the past.  Sometimes giving ridiculously low regen rates.

[PapaCharlie9]

Wait wait wait.  You're title says the theory is debunked.  So which is it?  Is it ridiculously low stamina regen or do they cancel out????

 

My point is that sigil of the bear has been shone to be buggy in the past.  Sometimes giving ridiculously low regen rates.

 

They don't cancel out.

 

I'm starting to think we are saying the same thing, but in two different ways. 

 

The "bug", as I understand it, is an explanation for why the regen rate is only 2 points per second, even though the max stamina should be 200. The assumed bug is that the base rate of 4% is halved to 2%, as per the Sigil description, but then applied to 100 max stamina, yielding the "ridiculously low" 2 points per second.

 

I am essentially seeing the same "ridiculously low" rate, but I'm not attributing it to a bug about effective max stamina. I think it's working as intended. When they said "-50% regen rate", they meant by points per second, not by percentage rate. They didn't halve 4% to 2%, they halved 4 points per second to 2 points per second. Meaning that the effective regen rate is now 1%, instead of 4%.

 

At least for DW rogues.

 

Of course, since max stamina can be buffed, in the code it probably is still a rate, like 1%. I assume they normalized the rate to meet the 2 points per second vs. 200 max stamina goal. All speculation, of course, but so is the "bug" theory.

[Serillen]

Out of curiosity does the +50 stamina amulet affect regeneration rates? I've never used it so I have no idea but my guess is it doesn't, the character still gains 4 stamina per second because the game is coded to only take the base unmodified stamina/mana values into account for regeneration purposes. That way those items don't completely overshadow the items that boost stamina/mana regeneration.

[PapaCharlie9]

Out of curiosity does the +50 stamina amulet affect regeneration rates? I've never used it so I have no idea but my guess is it doesn't, the character still gains 4 stamina per second because the game is coded to only take the base unmodified stamina/mana values into account for regeneration purposes. That way those items don't completely overshadow the items that boost stamina/mana regeneration.

Well, in my previous reply, I assumed that +X max stamina buffs do increase the regen rate. It would be weird for that not to be so -- it would mean the code really is written in terms of 4 points per second, not 4% of max.

Guess it needs testing to confirm, sigh.

[Bigdawg13]

I was able to confirm.  It looks like it cuts the passive mana regen % by a factor of 4.  

 

I drained my stamina with Charging Bull and then timed how long it took to come back.  With 100 stamina, it averaged about 25 seconds (roughly 4%/s).  With the sigil of the bear (i.e. 200 mana), the regen took 4x longer!!!! ~ 100 seconds.  

 

Now, I'm curious if it cuts the regen from white damage (autoattacks) in half too.  What about the passive 'Looked like  it hurt' or the stamina regen amulets when you kill a target.  

 

I still think it's a great sigil for any class that has a hard time not draining their stamina (rift mage, rogues with enough crit, etc).  But it appears to be a poor choice otherwise.

[PapaCharlie9]

Okay confirmed for DW rogue and warrior, but what about mage? A guy on reddit said he didn't see a reduction in passive regen rate for a mage.

[Serillen]

So did a couple of tests then ran out of mobs to kill in the area and gave up. Solas and myself in identical gear and spells. No mana regen passives and the outcome was Solas regenerated at about twice the speed of my character which would mean they're both regenerating 6 mana per second. I can't help but wonder if its an oversight. Prior to tresspasser there were no items that boosted max mana other than lyrium potions so its quite possible the regeneration values were programmed differently for mages and non mages.

[PapaCharlie9]

So did a couple of tests then ran out of mobs to kill in the area and gave up. Solas and myself in identical gear and spells. No mana regen passives and the outcome was Solas regenerated at about twice the speed of my character which would mean they're both regenerating 6 mana per second. I can't help but wonder if its an oversight. Prior to tresspasser there were no items that boosted max mana other than lyrium potions so its quite possible the regeneration values were programmed differently for mages and non mages.

Who had the Sigil? And what class were you?

I'm guessing you both had the Sigil and you were not a mage? Or you both did not have the Sigil, and this is just the baseline for mages?

[Serillen]

My Inquisitor had the sigil and was a rift mage so I used Solas as a direct comparison. I respecced to get rid of the winters stillness passive on both characters and had them take exactly the same spells and passives. Then I just crafted some generic gear for them to use. Griffons mail and Lyrium infused staves with no masterworks. My Inquisitor regenerated mana at half the rate as Solas despite having twice the mana pool which means that they both were gaining the same amount of mana per second. 

[Bigdawg13]

I can confirm.  I took a mage (no specialization) and swapped a sigil in an out.  Only spells were those to get to lightning cage.  I timed the regen time after casting lightning cage.

 

Without sigil (100 mana, 65 mana spell cost):

Time to regen:  10.75 s, 10.85 s, 10.91 s

Average regen is 5.99 mana per second (~ 6% mana regen which matches the guide)

 

With sigil (200 mana, 65 mana spell cost)

Time to regen:  10.90 s, 10.85 s

Average regen is 5,97 mana per second (~ 3% mana regen)

 

So for a mage, the Sigil of the Bear works as we all believed it did.  I.E. the sigil of the bear theorem is only debunked for rogue and warrior.  

 

Note;  I unequipped the armor and re-equipped after adding sigil, and double checked the mana in the attributes panel.