Questa discussione ha avuto 41 risposte

[Qis]

After posting in other topic this come to my mind, we assumed that HN PC is dead along with all Cousland family should Duncan not going to Highever in HN origin, but in HN origin, Howe attack is after Fergus left the castle, by means it is possible that Fergus is still alive, and he is indeed alive if we play as HN. The question are....

 

i. What is he doing all the time during the whole events, he do nothing when found out that Howe take over his castle?

 

ii. Did he just forget everything and decide to become a farmer somewhere or adventuring?

 

There is no mention about Fergus fate anywhere in the game if we play other than HN origins. Howe is freely taking over Cousland land without any problem. We cannot simply assume he is dead because even in HN origin he end up alive at the end. This lead to another question...

 

iii. Why would Howe leave an heir to Cousland alive?

[ArcadiaGrey]

During the events of DAO he was injured and taken in by some Chasind in the Korcari Wilds.

[theskymoves]

There is a banter in Awakening where Oghren mentions Fergus Cousland, and one of Nathaniel Howe's possible epilogue slides is:

 

Spoiler

 

Additionally, the DA:I War Table Mission, The Teyrn of Highever (which specifially references 'Teryn Fergus Cousland') is not conditional, i.e., it occurs in all worldstates.

 

Note that I received that epilogue slide on an Amell Warden playthrough, and taken with the information in DA:I, it is clear that Highever is always restored to the Couslands, post-Blight.

[Illegitimus]

After posting in other topic this come to my mind, we assumed that HN PC is dead along with all Cousland family should Duncan not going to Highever in HN origin, but in HN origin, Howe attack is after Fergus left the castle, by means it is possible that Fergus is still alive, and he is indeed alive if we play as HN. The question are....

 

i. What is he doing all the time during the whole events, he do nothing when found out that Howe take over his castle?

 

ii. Did he just forget everything and decide to become a farmer somewhere or adventuring?

 

There is no mention about Fergus fate anywhere in the game if we play other than HN origins. Howe is freely taking over Cousland land without any problem. We cannot simply assume he is dead because even in HN origin he end up alive at the end. This lead to another question...

 

iii. Why would Howe leave an heir to Cousland alive?

 

Howe left Fergus alive because he couldn't find him among the Chasind refugees.  (And those Chasind must have been bloody nice to care for an incapacitated outsider in the middle of all they must have been going through.)   I tend to think that Howe was counting on Loghain to send Fergus on a suicide mission to get rid of him and would have hired the Crows if that didn't work.  

[Pasquale1234]

After posting in other topic this come to my mind, we assumed that HN PC is dead along with all Cousland family should Duncan not going to Highever in HN origin, but in HN origin, Howe attack is after Fergus left the castle, by means it is possible that Fergus is still alive, and he is indeed alive if we play as HN. The question are....
 
i. What is he doing all the time during the whole events, he do nothing when found out that Howe take over his castle?
 
ii. Did he just forget everything and decide to become a farmer somewhere or adventuring?
 
There is no mention about Fergus fate anywhere in the game if we play other than HN origins. Howe is freely taking over Cousland land without any problem. We cannot simply assume he is dead because even in HN origin he end up alive at the end. This lead to another question...
 
iii. Why would Howe leave an heir to Cousland alive?

I think your first couple of questions have been addressed - and IIRC, Fergus shows up at the final reception / send-off, regardless of your Warden's origin.

As to why Howe would leave Fergus alive, there are other possible theories about that...

The game doesn't tell us exactly how Howe expected to get by with his treachery. One possibility is that he was planning to tell Cailan he'd uncovered a Cousland plot to usurp the throne - a few forged documents, some minor nobles who owed him favors lying on his behalf, etc., and he may have been able to convince Cailan that he acted in his best interests. In that case - if he'd managed to convince the crown the Couslands were plotting against him - Fergus's survival might not have mattered. He may have been executed if he ever showed up.

[Ghost Gal]

Probably in hiding.

 

EDIT: Like you said, OP, Howe was taking over Cousland land unopposed, so it's not like Fergus was going to draw attention to himself. He might as well paint an archer's bull's eye on his forehead. He probably laid low until Howe was killed, then came forward after the Blight and said, "I'm the last of the Couslands. Give me my family's stuff back," and it was restored to him. He turns up in a DAI war table mission no matter worldstate you picked, so that's probably what happened.

[Qis]

There is a banter in Awakening where Oghren mentions Fergus Cousland, and one of Nathaniel Howe's possible epilogue slides is:

 

Spoiler

 

Additionally, the DA:I War Table Mission, The Teyrn of Highever (which specifially references 'Teryn Fergus Cousland') is not conditional, i.e., it occurs in all worldstates.

 

Note that I received that epilogue slide on an Amell Warden playthrough, and taken with the information in DA:I, it is clear that Highever is always restored to the Couslands, post-Blight.

 

That is odd, how Fergus become Teyrn if his land is given to the Grey Warden? In any origin other than HN Howe lands in which includes Highever is given to the Grey Warden isn't it? Or i am wrong? Or it just Amaranthine?

 

Even if he become the Teyrn of Highever, he have no army, and nothing, there should be in detail how he manage to get it without HN HoF influence

 

Howe left Fergus alive because he couldn't find him among the Chasind refugees.  (And those Chasind must have been bloody nice to care for an incapacitated outsider in the middle of all they must have been going through.)   I tend to think that Howe was counting on Loghain to send Fergus on a suicide mission to get rid of him and would have hired the Crows if that didn't work.  

 

It is odd the one who want to blame Darkspawn for Highever destruction leaving the heir alive, that will complicate thing, he should just ambushed Fergus while he's on the way to Ostagar and say it's Darkspawn doing.

[theskymoves]

That is odd, how Fergus become Teyrn if his land is given to the Grey Warden? In any origin other than HN Howe lands in which includes Highever is given to the Grey Warden isn't it? Or i am wrong? Or it just Amaranthine?

 

 

Just Amarathine.

 

Dialogue from the boon ceremony (Alistair, and IIRC, Anora's is the same):

 

Let it also be known that the arling of Amaranthine, once the land of Arl Howe, is now granted to the Grey Wardens. There they can rebuild, following the example of those who went before them.

 

And from an US funeral:

 

Let all know that the arling of Amaranthine, once the land of Arl Howe, is now granted to the Grey Wardens. There they can rebuild, and hopefully live up to this example.

 

Even if a HN Warden boon request is that 'the Howes pay for what they did to my family', the king/queen's dialogue is very specific about who gets what:

 

The Howes are hereby stripped of their titles and fortune, and will be investigated as to their involvement in the Highever attack. Highever itself is of course restored to your family... namely your brother Fergus, since he was found safe and sound near the Korcari Wilds. Let it also be known that the arling of Amaranthine, once the land of Arl Howe, is now granted to the Grey Wardens. There they can rebuild, following the example of those who went before them.

 

And at a HN Warden's funeral, the monarch gives Amaranthine to Fergus, who demurs:

 

Alistair/Anora: Fergus, the Highever lands are restored to you... in addition to the Amaranthine arling that was Arl Howe's.

Fergus: Your Majesty... I would like to give Amaranthine to the Grey Wardens.
Alistair/Anora: I think that would be fitting. Let all know that the arling of Amaranthine, once the land of Arl Howe, is now granted to the Grey Wardens. There they can rebuild, and hopefully live up to this example.

[Illegitimus]

 

It is odd the one who want to blame Darkspawn for Highever destruction leaving the heir alive, that will complicate thing, he should just ambushed Fergus while he's on the way to Ostagar and say it's Darkspawn doing.

 

First I've heard of Darkspawn being blamed for the Highever massacre.   The reason he didn't ambush Fergus on the way to Ostagar is because Fergus was in the middle of the Cousland forces which were actually larger than any force he could field.  He would have gotten slaughtered.  

[Qis]

Just Amarathine.

 

Dialogue from the boon ceremony (Alistair, and IIRC, Anora's is the same):

 

Let it also be known that the arling of Amaranthine, once the land of Arl Howe, is now granted to the Grey Wardens. There they can rebuild, following the example of those who went before them.

 

And from an US funeral:

 

Let all know that the arling of Amaranthine, once the land of Arl Howe, is now granted to the Grey Wardens. There they can rebuild, and hopefully live up to this example.

 

Even if a HN Warden boon request is that 'the Howes pay for what they did to my family', the king/queen's dialogue is very specific about who gets what:

 

The Howes are hereby stripped of their titles and fortune, and will be investigated as to their involvement in the Highever attack. Highever itself is of course restored to your family... namely your brother Fergus, since he was found safe and sound near the Korcari Wilds. Let it also be known that the arling of Amaranthine, once the land of Arl Howe, is now granted to the Grey Wardens. There they can rebuild, following the example of those who went before them.

 

(And at a HN Warden's funeral, the monarch gives Amaranthine to Fergus, who demurs:

 

Alistair/Anora: Fergus, the Highever lands are restored to you... in addition to the Amaranthine arling that was Arl Howe's.

Fergus: Your Majesty... I would like to give Amaranthine to the Grey Wardens.
Alistair/Anora: I think that would be fitting. Let all know that the arling of Amaranthine, once the land of Arl Howe, is now granted to the Grey Wardens. There they can rebuild, and hopefully live up to this example.

 

The last two is if played as HN PC, the King/Queen restored Highever to Fergus because he attend the ceremony, if other than HN, he will not be there, the land is not restored by the King/Queen, in this case "the land of Arl Howe" could also mean Highever since Howe  got it under his rule.

 

There's a big question on how Fergus got the title Teyrn if he have no land, if he can get the title, so HN PC while being exiled. The slide only say "Teyrn Fergus Cousland" not "Fergus Teyrn of Highever", this could implied Fergus got other land, not Highever.

[theskymoves]

The last two is if played as HN PC, the King/Queen restored Highever to Fergus because he attend the ceremony, if other than HN, he will not be there, the land is not restored by the King/Queen, in this case "the land of Arl Howe" could also mean Highever since Howe  got it under his rule.

 

There's a big question on how Fergus got the title Teyrn if he have no land, if he can get the title, so HN PC while being exiled. The slide only say "Teyrn Fergus Cousland" not "Fergus Teyrn of Highever", this could implied Fergus got other land, not Highever.

 

*sigh*

[Lazarillo]

The last two is if played as HN PC, the King/Queen restored Highever to Fergus because he attend the ceremony, if other than HN, he will not be there, the land is not restored by the King/Queen, in this case "the land of Arl Howe" could also mean Highever since Howe  got it under his rule.

Except she also specifically states in all cases "the arling of Amaranthine". Howe was also the nominal Arl of Denerim when he died. So if you're saying Fergus doesn't get back the teyrnir because Howe's land was given to the Gray Wardens, then I suppose that also means the Wardens are now in full control of Denerim.

And that's not even bringing the aforementioned references to Inquisition, from which we know for a fact that Fergus is Teyrn of Highever.

[Dai Grepher]

Fergus is Teyrn of Highever in Inquisition. /end thread

[Qis]

I want to know how Fergus become Teyrn of Highever since he no longer have army and no longer have lands, he have nothing

 

You cannot just simply walk into the land occupied by invaders and then claim back your title

[GoldenGail3]

I feel fortunate enough to have made my Female Cousland my canon. 

[Pasquale1234]

I want to know how Fergus become Teyrn of Highever since he no longer have army and no longer have lands, he have nothing

As the rightful heir, Fergus became Teyrn of Highever the moment his parents died. That he didn't happen to be there at the time is irrelevant.

As for the armies - we don't know exactly what happened to them. Cailan told us that Fergus was out scouting nearby, and I would guess he went out with a small group. It makes no sense to take entire armies on a simple scouting mission, and I doubt that whatever it was that caused his injuries would have happened with entire armies in tow. For all we know, most of Highever's forces were waiting with Loghain - in which case, they could be mostly intact.
 

You cannot just simply walk into the land occupied by invaders and then claim back your title

1. The title did not need to be reclaimed. It was never lost.
2. The invader was d-e-a-d. The Warden killed him.
3. Howe's occupation of Highever was never officially sanctioned by the crown.
4. We have no evidence that any of the banns or arls included in the Highever Terynship ever swore fealty to Howe. That is a necessary part of the process.
5. Ferelden was undergoing a civil war after the death of Cailan. We don't actually know whether any of the banns or arls within Highever were fighting for or against Howe. They might have completely rejected him.

[Lazarillo]

4. We have no evidence that any of the banns or arls included in the Highever Terynship ever swore fealty to Howe. That is a necessary part of the process.

Key point, this. Ferelden is remarkably like a republic for a feudal nation. You absolutely can walk into somebody else's land and claim it's yours, if enough of the people on that land are cool with it and don't try to kill you immediately. And given that nobody tried to kill the Cousland's immediately before Howe's betrayal, I can't imagine why they'd do so after Howe is dead too.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

I want to know how Fergus become Teyrn of Highever since he no longer have army and no longer have lands, he have nothing

 

You cannot just simply walk into the land occupied by invaders and then claim back your title

Even ignoring the other responses to this question: the king and/or queen says he can, and they have soldiers and lands to spare. Seriously, in the context of the things that have already been posted here, how is that even a question?

[Qis]

If Fergus got the title, then why HN PC don't carry the title while he/she is known to be alive for a year?

 

You guys see here what i meant? Fergus only known alive at the end of HN defeating The Blight, while in other origin he's not. So if Fergus can claim to be teyrn of Highever, why not HN PC while everyone know he/she alive and Fergus not?

 

HN even say "My father was the Teyrn of Highever" to everyone he/she met, everyone know him/her, but he/she are not recognized as Teyrn/Teyrnir as Fergus is no where to be found. HN is the last known heir to Cousland but no one give a damn, not even in the Landsmeet.

 

Suddenly Fergus become Teyrn just by appearing alive?

 

If anyone say PC is a Grey Warden and not into politic, this is moot since Alistair and Lady Cousland can become King and Queen of Ferelden. Alistair is recognized as the last known heir to the throne all the way...

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

If Fergus got the title, then why HN PC don't carry the title while he/she is known to be alive for a year?

 

You guys see here what i meant? Fergus only known alive at the end of HN defeating The Blight, while in other origin he's not. So if Fergus can claim to be teyrn of Highever, why not HN PC while everyone know he/she alive and Fergus not?

 

HN even say "My father was the Teyrn of Highever" to everyone he/she met, everyone know him/her, but he/she are not recognized as Teyrn/Teyrnir as Fergus is no where to be found. HN is the last known heir to Cousland but no one give a damn, not even in the Landsmeet.

 

Suddenly Fergus become Teyrn just by appearing alive?

 

If anyone say PC is a Grey Warden and not into politic, this is moot since Alistair and Lady Cousland can become King and Queen of Ferelden. Alistair is recognized as the last known heir to the throne all the way...

Aren't there people in the Gnawed Noble who can offer their support taking back the terynir?

 

But anyway, the reason Fergus can take back the terynir so easily is that the PC had already defeated Howe and gained the favor of the crown by that point. The PC might have taken Highever at about the time Fergus did, actually, except that Fergus showed up to do so. (The PC can't do so before the Landsmeet because Howe has it and they don't have the crown's favor, and shortly after the Landsmeet... well, I can only assume the Warden has other things on their mind.)

[HeliosDisciple]

The PC is a Warden, and Wardens can't hold landed titles. Alistair has to leave the Wardens to become King (and Lady Cousland has to leave to become Queen, Awakening says she rejoined to deal with the mess in Amaranthine).

 

If Fergus got the title, then why HN PC don't carry the title while he/she is known to be alive for a year?

[Pasquale1234]

If Fergus got the title, then why HN PC don't carry the title while he/she is known to be alive for a year?

If you want your HN PC to believe that s/he's the heir of Highever and plan to retake the Teyrnship after this blight business is done, you're free to role-play it that way.
 

You guys see here what i meant? Fergus only known alive at the end of HN defeating The Blight, while in other origin he's not.

As has been mentioned before, Fergus appears at the post-blight gathering regardless of which origin you play.
 

So if Fergus can claim to be teyrn of Highever, why not HN PC while everyone know he/she alive and Fergus not?

You *can* believe it to be so if you like, although the writers didn't create very much dialogue to support that. If you talked to Dairren at the Castle, he might tell you that many people speculate the younger Cousland will be chosen as the heir.
 

HN even say "My father was the Teyrn of Highever" to everyone he/she met, everyone know him/her, but he/she are not recognized as Teyrn/Teyrnir as Fergus is no where to be found. HN is the last known heir to Cousland but no one give a damn, not even in the Landsmeet.

Most of HN's conversations involve Warden business.

So is your big complaint the fact that there wasn't special dialogue written for the HN?
 

If anyone say PC is a Grey Warden and not into politic, this is moot since Alistair and Lady Cousland can become King and Queen of Ferelden. Alistair is recognized as the last known heir to the throne all the way...

The wardens are given the Arling of Amaranthine at the end of the game.

[theskymoves]

As has been mentioned before, Fergus appears at the post-blight gathering regardless of which origin you play.
 

 

Fergus only appears if the Warden is a Human Noble. An 'origin specific' attendee is scripted for each background, and are 'swapped in' via a plot flag check.

 

HN, with Fergus Cousland:

Spoiler

 

Magi, with First Chanter Irving:

Spoiler

 

Dalish, with Ashalle:

Spoiler

 

Section of epi_attendees_h script that calls the origin-appropriate NPC:

 

Spoiler

void SetOriginMembersAttending()
{

    object  oPC             = GetHero();

    //Ashalle
    int         bElfDalish  = WR_GetPlotFlag( PLT_GEN00PT_BACKGROUNDS, GEN_BACK_ELF_DALISH );
    object      oAshalle    = UT_GetNearestCreatureByTag( oPC, EPI_CR_ASHALLE );
    if( bElfDalish )
        WR_SetObjectActive( oAshalle, TRUE );

    //Cyrion
    int         bElfCity    = WR_GetPlotFlag( PLT_GEN00PT_BACKGROUNDS, GEN_BACK_ELF_CITY );
    object      oCyrion     = UT_GetNearestCreatureByTag( oPC, EPI_CR_CYRION );
    if( bElfCity )
        WR_SetObjectActive( oCyrion, TRUE );

    //Fergus
    int         bHumanNoble = WR_GetPlotFlag( PLT_GEN00PT_BACKGROUNDS, GEN_BACK_HUMAN_NOBLE );
    object      oFergus     = UT_GetNearestCreatureByTag( oPC, EPI_CR_FERGUS );
    if( bHumanNoble )
        WR_SetObjectActive( oFergus, TRUE );

    //Gorim
    int         bDwarfNoble = WR_GetPlotFlag( PLT_GEN00PT_BACKGROUNDS, GEN_BACK_DWARF_NOBLE );
    object      oGorim      = UT_GetNearestCreatureByTag( oPC, EPI_CR_GORIM );
    if( bDwarfNoble )
        WR_SetObjectActive( oGorim, TRUE );

    //Irving
    int         bIrvingDead = WR_GetPlotFlag( PLT_CIR000PT_MAIN, ALL_MAGES_DEAD );
    int         bMageOrigin = WR_GetPlotFlag( PLT_GEN00PT_BACKGROUNDS, GEN_BACK_CIRCLE );
    object      oIrving     = UT_GetNearestCreatureByTag( oPC, EPI_CR_IRVING );
    if((bIrvingDead == FALSE) && (bMageOrigin == TRUE) )
        WR_SetObjectActive( oIrving, TRUE );

    //Rica
    int         bDwarfCommoner  = WR_GetPlotFlag( PLT_GEN00PT_BACKGROUNDS, GEN_BACK_DWARF_COMMONER );
    object      oRica           = UT_GetNearestCreatureByTag( oPC, EPI_CR_RICA );
    if( bDwarfCommoner )
        WR_SetObjectActive( oRica, TRUE );

[Captain Wiseass]

Fergus always appears, he's just not always up front. If the Warden isn't a Human Noble, he's in the crowd.

[Pasquale1234]

I'd forgotten that he stands up w/ the Warden - I just remember seeing him in the crowd.

Regardless of origin, there are some (apparent) human nobles in the crowd that look like him. I guess I always sort of assumed he was there; an assumption which could certainly be incorrect.

Shrug.

ETA: Ninja'ed. Heh.