I prefer Human female or asari but hopefully they have new exotic races in Andromeda. A race that has something going for em other than asari or humans.
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Oh, I expect our "new alien" LI will be from the Helius cluster. It's Bio's intro to the locals. From an optimized romance mix options, they will be bisexual or like the Asari.
What if Blackwall and Josephine were the only two LIs, but they got lots of depth and extra content for their romances? Considering that Blackwall was one of the core male options (as opposed to late additions like Cullen and Solas), he'd probably be the male romance. Personally, I like the idea of fewer romances with more content, but I'd be worried about being left with the ones I'm not keen on. For example, Miranda/Jacob probably would've been our romances for ME2 if they'd been cut down. Maybe Jacob would've been better developed if that was the case, but I'm not so sure.
I do agree that eight seems excessive, there was no need for five male romance options. I still haven't done Blackwall or Cullen yet. Likewise, ME2 felt excessive with 6 straight options (plus Kelly), especially since there were already three romances being carried over from ME1.
No Solas, no deal. No Garrus, no deal.
What if Blackwall and Josephine were the only two LIs, but they got lots of depth and extra content for their romances? Considering that Blackwall was one of the core male options (as opposed to late additions like Cullen and Solas), he'd probably be the male romance. Personally, I like the idea of fewer romances with more content, but I'd be worried about being left with the ones I'm not keen on. For example, Miranda/Jacob probably would've been our romances for ME2 if they'd been cut down. Maybe Jacob would've been better developed if that was the case, but I'm not so sure.
I do agree that eight seems excessive, there was no need for five male romance options. I still haven't done Blackwall or Cullen yet. Likewise, ME2 felt excessive with 6 straight options (plus Kelly), especially since there were already three romances being carried over from ME1.
That's the risk, what if they'd cut Garrus for Jacob.....*groan*
ME needed much more romance content, like them getting pissed with you for certain choices for example. Cutting out a few would've been fine with me, but as you say I might not like who got the chop. I could live without Thane and Jacob, and swap them for a continued romance with Kaidan in ME2. But then many love Thane's romance.
I'd be fine with Josie's being much more in depth, she's very sweet, but Blackwall does nothing for me. Still, I'd take 2 less in DAI anyway if it meant the remaining 6 had more content.
I haven't romanced Solas yet, but from what I've read it's a shame it didn't have more of an impact on the story. Which begs the question, should it even have been included in the first place?
Which begs the question, should it even have been included in the first place?
A question that'll likely be meet by different answers.
Personally, I feel it does have an impact on the story especially due to the character insight I feel it provide. An example being that Solas does have the option of finding happiness and love in this new world but feels he cannot due to guilt amongst other things.
A question that'll likely be meet by different answers. Personally, I feel it does have an impact on the story especially due to the character insight I feel it provide. An example being that Solas does have the option of finding happiness and love in this new world but feels he cannot due to guilt amongst other things.
I'm really looking forward to it, I'm happy to hear that you felt that way. Do you think his romance should've had a more profound impact on his actions in Trespasser? Cause if they'd done that...it would've been incredible.
I just wonder how I'd have felt if Solas had been my first LI, getting to the end of the core game and seeing the reveal. That would've been one helluva cliffhanger. 
I'm really looking forward to it, I'm happy to hear that you felt that way. Do you think his romance should've had a more profound impact on his actions in Trespasser? Cause if they'd done that...it would've been incredible.
I just wonder how I'd have felt if Solas had been my first LI, getting to the end of the core game and seeing the reveal. That would've been one helluva cliffhanger.
I was oddly happy with what we got: Lavellan was able to express her thoughts, feelings and opinion on the revelations, she was able to try to appeal to him and was able to decide how she felt about him after all was said and done. It was all I needed.
Unfortunately, I accidentally spoiled myself on Solas's identity during my blind run though only a good while into Skyhold so I had thankfully had the time to form my own impression of him independant from that information. Once the disappointment of how I'd learned it had passed, it was a fun discovery especially seeing as I thought the two seemed the most normal out of the romances I've played.
Eww...Blackwall looks like an older version of my dad.
I would remain romance-less.
Same here. 
I quite like Blackwall as a compaion, but I really can't find myself romancing him... He remind me too much of my dad. And I have a thing for mature man (Solas is my canon romance for DAI, after all).
I was very surprised that he was the principal straight romance for female characters. Cullen felt (and actually is, for what I have seen) the most natural to go romance for the female public.
Same here.
I was very surprised that he was the principal straight romance for female characters. Cullen felt (and actually is, for what I have seen) the most natural to go romance for the female public.
Ikr, I'm surprised too. Cullen seems the obvious lead male LI.
I've convinced myself to romance Zev, Anders, Ash...but I can't with Blackwall. Maybe it has something to do with all of Dorian's remarks about his personal hygiene.
Ikr, I'm surprised too. Cullen seems the obvious lead male LI.
I've convinced myself to romance Zev, Anders, Ash...but I can't with Blackwall. Maybe it has something to do with all of Dorian's remarks about his personal hygiene.
Ahahah!!! I missed Dorian talking about Blackwall!!! 
Shame on me, I have to play again!!!
But yes, I don't get it. Plus, Blackwall was the last reveiled LI before the game was out, and Cullen the first with Cassandra. I still can't understand this focus on a character that doesn't feel like a natural romance to go. He gave me more of a "failed Duncan" than a possible romance. (And Cullen is not even my preferred romance, but I felt it was more natural than Blackwall... Solas, Bull and Cassandra are my favourite in DAI, with Dorian right behind, for what I have played until now, since I haven't finished that run)
I like the idea of focused romances, but at the same time, I think I'm probably niche. I'd get a little bored with the one-size-fits-all milquetoast option. You can't please everyone, so the only thing left is to do something like that.
So, I have a couple of things;
How is he freeloading off on Shepard? He agreed to go on a suicide mission with her when Shepard came to him and recruited him. He is living on a ship that does not belong to Shepard but to the Illusive Man who is the one funding the mission including the cost of living.
He didn't ask Shepard to resolve his personal issues for him; he was seeking his own information, found his own lead and made his own arrangement. Garrus asks for help and Shepard can agree to help but Garrus, as far as I can remember, do not ask Shepard to resolve his issues for him. I think Shepard's other option is to tell him he cannot go otherwise it wouldn't be unthinkable that he'd simply ask another member of the crew for help. I mean, Zaeed would probably see it as a bonding experience.
Why would he bring his feelings up in Mass Effect 2? This development of their relationship is completely new and he's not sure if the relationship is casual or romantic. That's part of what he talks about to Shepard in Mass Effect 3 including that he wasn't sure if Shepard felt the same way as him. He is even the one who brings it up;
Garrus: "So... is this the part where we... shake hands? Wasn't sure about the protocols on reunions or if you even still felt the same way as me."
In the same scene after Shepard says she hasn't forgotten their time together, Garrus not only goes on to say that he'd been doing some more research on human customs and that he didn't want to presume anything, he makes it abundantly clear how he feels about Shepard like how by how he says that it is going to take more than the Reapers to come between them. He's not maneuvering around in the relationship: he makes it clear to Shepard after they are out of harm's way and have time alone how he feels and how much he cares about the two of them even if he does not say it directly. He is straight with Shepard about their relationship.
Some couples don't feel the need to tell the other that they love them unless in special situations: this does not mean that they love each other less than a couple that does often tell the other that they love them. Shepard and Garrus seem to be more the former kind of couple.
He quit his job to join up on Normandy SR-1. He failed miserably as a vigilante mercenary and got the rest of his team killed and joined the Normandy SR-2. He spent six months as Reaper Advisor because he make his daddy talk to Primarch Fedorian and joined Shepard on the Normandy again because its now a habit. He was given the task coordinating the turian fleet for Hackett but its a meaningless job since it still happen regardless of his presence. And in Citadel DLC, he was shocked that everyone is paid except him. He is an unemployed Turian who was freeloading on Shepard's ship whose only reason to exist was to tag along every game. I wish there was an option for him to be a War Asset where he could stay and help his people but you can't. His only other narrative option is death during suicide mission.
You can't romance Garrus without doing his loyalty quest. It is one of his romance requirement other than recruiting him in ME1. And compared to other LI characters, Garrus isn't romantically interested in either Shepard and always see them as friends first and would only consider the idea of "interspecies relationship" if you flirt him more than once. The world is about to end and you still have to consistently convince him that you're interested in him because apparently he have insecurities. He is not a virginal teenage boy who need to come out of his shell because he haven't found his right girl yet. Even the line "Some women find facial scars attractive." isn't specifically directed to FemShep but women in general... which includes Tali, who he always imagine her having the face of an angel underneath her mask, who have success at getting him after two conversation via coms and she didn't do any special favors for him. And he was comfortable enough to show off that he have the Commander Shepard as his girlfriend and shower her with all his attention and yet he didn't know how to say "I love you, Shepard." because the vids didn't prepare him for it. Instead of Shepard having to order him to kiss her like an idiot, I would want to know exactly where he was going with the relationship because it seems like I have to stab his liver with a dagger and twisting it because he have to be critically injured for him to actually say what he felt. Not even Aric Jorgan do this to me and they romance the same Jennifer Hale.
Ahahah!!! I missed Dorian talking about Blackwall!!!
But yes, I don't get it. Plus, Blackwall was the last reveiled LI before the game was out, and Cullen the first with Cassandra. I still can't understand this focus on a character that doesn't feel like a natural romance to go. He gave me more of a "failed Duncan" than a possible romance. (And Cullen is not even my preferred romance, but I felt it was more natural than Blackwall... Solas, Bull and Cassandra are my favourite in DAI, with Dorian right behind, for what I have played until now, since I haven't finished that run)
There's a topic about it - https://forum.biowar...rsonal-hygiene/
It perplexes me too, he isn't a natural romance option is he? All furtive and brooding...and not in a good way.
But hey, he's got his own thread so there must be something good there.
I've romanced Bull. Omg it was glorious. 
There's a topic about it - https://forum.biowar...rsonal-hygiene/
It perplexes me too, he isn't a natural romance option is he? All furtive and brooding...and not in a good way.
But hey, he's got his own thread so there must be something good there.
I've romanced Bull. Omg it was glorious.
Is not much the furtive and brooding...is just...the "dad feeling" that gives me... or the "young Santa Claus" look. It really put me off. And I love an alien velociraptor!!!
I've tried to start a romance with him with my dwarfette... but I ended up only frustrated by Varric (he really felt perfect for my girl...
) and enjoyed another run with Bull. The guy is ilarious, and I adore him!
I'm sure many girls and guys love him, is just my limit.
So many people dumping on Blackwall, while here I'm thinking he's the best companion in DAI and the only male LI that sounds even remotely interesting. I may be a straight guy, but I still got taste 
And maybe that's the strongest argument against focused romances. I shudder at the thought of the ME series with Liara as the only option, or boors like Cullen and Solas stealing the spotlight even more than they already do. Frankly, I doubt Bioware will manage to make romances deeper even with more screentime; they're more likely to get more of the same content we're used to instead.
He quit his job to join up on Normandy SR-1. He failed miserably as a vigilante mercenary and got the rest of his team killed and joined the Normandy SR-2. He spent six months as Reaper Advisor because he make his daddy talk to Primarch Fedorian and joined Shepard on the Normandy again because its now a habit. He was given the task coordinating the turian fleet for Hackett but its a meaningless job since it still happen regardless of his presence. And in Citadel DLC, he was shocked that everyone is paid except him. He is an unemployed Turian who was freeloading on Shepard's ship whose only reason to exist was to tag along every game. I wish there was an option for him to be a War Asset where he could stay and help his people but you can't. His only other narrative option is death during suicide mission.
I have to separate this into two posts because forum format is no being terribly nice at the moment to me and my posts.
With the exception of his time as a vigilante on Omega, all of the other instances of supposed "freeloading" has basically been him basically doing a job and working even if he was not always paid for it.
Garrus quit his job to join an agent of the government’s team to pursue what he believed to be a dangerous criminal because he saw no other way of doing so. Given that he joins the field team and employs his combat skills to help in the mission, I wouldn’t call it freeloading. Is Tali freeloading? Is Wrex freeloading?
He joined a suicide mission and lived onboard the Normandy as a part of the mission including by, once again, employing his combat skills and technical knowledge to help the mission. Again, I wouldn’t call this freeloading especially given that the Thanix Cannon ends up proving kind of valuable. Is Tali freeloading? Is Thane freeloading? Is Samara freeloading? Is Joker freeloading? Is Shepard freeloading?
So Garrus going to his father as a last resort in a desperate attempt to do something in preparation for the Reapers is… freeloading? Despite the fact that he did what he could with the task force he was given and that he joined Shepard to further help Palaven against the Reapers.
I have to ask by which definition you are using the word freeloading? Because every time Garrus has joined up with Shepard or anyone else for that matter, he’s done the exact opposite of freeloading. Here is a common definition of a freeloader;
Freeloader: “a person who takes advantage of others' generosity without giving anything in return.”
So many people dumping on Blackwall, while here I'm thinking he's the best companion in DAI and the only male LI that sounds even remotely interesting. I may be a straight guy, but I still got taste
And maybe that's the strongest argument against focused romances. I shudder at the thought of the ME series with Liara as the only option, or boors like Cullen and Solas stealing the spotlight even more than they already do. Frankly, I doubt Bioware will manage to make romances deeper even with more screentime; they're more likely to get more of the same content we're used to instead.
I liked Blackwall 
. Even though I didn't find him physically attractive I thought his storyline was neat and made up for it, so I enjoyed his romance. I'd honestly like more LIs like him for MEA. Cullen was... idk, I genuinely tried to romance him in two playthroughs and could never go through with it for some reason. But since he was such a fan favorite I fear BW will keep making romance options like him instead.
Ok so I love that Bioware is inclusive. I love Romancing characters in their games. But I do feel they are stretching them kinda thin at this point. I would much rather have a very small pool or romancable characters but tie the romance more into the main plot. Just little things but as the game progresses have other characters comment on you romance in a normal run of the mill main plot cut scene. Have things change in the main plot if you are in a romance. It dose not have to be earth shattering stuff. But just a constant running narrative that you are in a relationship could add so much to it. Also if you are not in a romance it would not affect anything and those cut scenes would just play out a little differently.
But by cutting down on the amount of love interests they could focus and putting the resources into things like that. Rather than putting together an extra 10 specific romance scenes for all the romance options.
This is what I would like to see.
Too bad I have only one "Like this" button.
This is exactly what I want, even if it means there won't be any romanceable characters to my personal taste. It's fine. It happens in real life too 
Is not much the furtive and brooding...is just...the "dad feeling" that gives me... or the "young Santa Claus" look. It really put me off. And I love an alien velociraptor!!!
I've tried to start a romance with him with my dwarfette... but I ended up only frustrated by Varric (he really felt perfect for my girl...
I'm sure many girls and guys love him, is just my limit.
I've downloaded a mod for Blackwall that gets rid of the godawful beard. Maybe I'll start thinking differently about him. Varric was my top choice, I'm gutted I still can't run my fingers through his majestic chest hair.
So many people dumping on Blackwall, while here I'm thinking he's the best companion in DAI and the only male LI that sounds even remotely interesting. I may be a straight guy, but I still got taste
And maybe that's the strongest argument against focused romances. I shudder at the thought of the ME series with Liara as the only option, or boors like Cullen and Solas stealing the spotlight even more than they already do. Frankly, I doubt Bioware will manage to make romances deeper even with more screentime; they're more likely to get more of the same content we're used to instead.
Welp, as I've learnt in the past, I never really know how I feel about a LI until I actually put my money where my mouth is and romance them. But I admit, Blackwall will be like....playthrough number 8.
You can't romance Garrus without doing his loyalty quest. It is one of his romance requirement other than recruiting him in ME1.
So? That is the requirement for all of the romances in Mass Effect 2 as far as I can remember.
And compared to other LI characters, Garrus isn't romantically interested in either Shepard and always see them as friends first and would only consider the idea of "interspecies relationship" if you flirt him more than once.
So? Sometimes people develop feelings for each other or realize they have feelings for each other over the course of a relationship, sometimes a friendly relationship and sometimes a casual relationship.
Speaking of which, the relationship in Mass Effect 2 is initially a casual relationship that develops into a romantic relationship and continues as romantic in Mass Effect 3.
Additionally, there is little to no precedence for a turian and human relationship so that he hadn't considered a interspecies liason between a human and a turian is not exactly surprising.
The world is about to end and you still have to consistently convince him that you're interested in him because apparently he have insecurities. He is not a virginal teenage boy who need to come out of his shell because he haven't found his right girl yet.
I'd like to see some quote citation and video evidence to support this claim, please. This is partially because, as I've mentioned previously, Garrus says in Mass Effect 3 that he did not want to assume anything. This only make sense seeing as the relationship he and Shepard had in Mass Effect 2 was originally a casual liason that developed into an unspoken, romantic relationship between the two.
Also, when did I claim that Garrus was and I quote for emphasis; "-virginal teenage boy who need to come out of his shell because he haven't found his right girl yet."?
Even the line "Some women find facial scars attractive." isn't specifically directed to FemShep but women in general...
So? I have no context for the version of the line you are referring to so for all I know, the context is a romanced Garrus saying this line while teasingly implying that Shepard is one of the women that finds facial scars attractive. This only make senses given that it is more or less a joke between the two as evident in this scene where Shepard laughs when he says this;
Garrus: "The scars are starting to fade. I remember they drove you wild."
Shepard: "*laughs*"
The world is about to end and you still have to consistently convince him that you're interested in him because apparently he have insecurities. He is not a virginal teenage boy who need to come out of his shell because he haven't found his right girl yet. Even the line "Some women find facial scars attractive." isn't specifically directed to FemShep but women in general... which includes Tali, who he always imagine her having the face of an angel underneath her mask, who have success at getting him after two conversation via coms and she didn't do any special favors for him.
I know it happens but I cannot remember much, if any, of that. There is a precedence for turian and quarian relationships so that is not odd. It also seems likely that Tali was straightforward about wanting a romantic relationship or that they developed feelings for each other over the course of Mass Effect 3.
You could provide a quote of him saying he always imagined her as having the face of an angel since that sounds an odd line given that turian religion do not have angels but spirits but hey, that may simply be either the writers forgetting or me misremembering.
I am assume by "special favor", you are referring to loyalty mission in Mass Effect 2? As far as I know, Garrus is dead if his loyalty mission is not completed and if he is alive, his loyalty mission has been resolved one way or another meaning the thing that is preventing him from moving on has been dealt with.
And he was comfortable enough to show off that he have the Commander Shepard as his girlfriend and shower her with all his attention and yet he didn't know how to say "I love you, Shepard." because the vids didn't prepare him for it. Instead of Shepard having to order him to kiss her like an idiot, I would want to know exactly where he was going with the relationship because it seems like I have to stab his liver with a dagger and twisting it because he have to be critically injured for him to actually say what he felt. Not even Aric Jorgan do this to me and they romance the same Jennifer Hale.
I'm going to quote myself on this own because it seems to have been missed in the previous post; "Some couples don't feel the need to tell the other that they love them unless in special situations: this does not mean that they love each other less than a couple that does often tell the other that they love them. Shepard and Garrus seem to be more the former kind of couple."
Not even Aric Jorgan do this to me and they romance the same Jennifer Hale.
Thankfully, romances can and tend to differ from each other which I think is a great thing because it can help add variety and allow you to find a romance that is to your taste and preference. Speaking of which, your taste and preference seem to be more towards a relationship like the one in the Kaidan romance and generally romances where the couple in question frequently tell each other that they love each other. Personally, I like relationships where this is the case such as with Solas and relationships where this is not the case such as with Solas.
This is entire debate is incredibly off-topic but I want to note a few things:
He quit his job to join up on Normandy SR-1. He failed miserably as a vigilante mercenary and got the rest of his team killed and joined the Normandy SR-2. He spent six months as Reaper Advisor because he make his daddy talk to Primarch Fedorian and joined Shepard on the Normandy again because its now a habit. He was given the task coordinating the turian fleet for Hackett but its a meaningless job since it still happen regardless of his presence. And in Citadel DLC, he was shocked that everyone is paid except him. He is an unemployed Turian who was freeloading on Shepard's ship whose only reason to exist was to tag along every game. I wish there was an option for him to be a War Asset where he could stay and help his people but you can't. His only other narrative option is death during suicide mission.
You can't romance Garrus without doing his loyalty quest. It is one of his romance requirement other than recruiting him in ME1. And compared to other LI characters, Garrus isn't romantically interested in either Shepard and always see them as friends first and would only consider the idea of "interspecies relationship" if you flirt him more than once. The world is about to end and you still have to consistently convince him that you're interested in him because apparently he have insecurities. He is not a virginal teenage boy who need to come out of his shell because he haven't found his right girl yet. Even the line "Some women find facial scars attractive." isn't specifically directed to FemShep but women in general... which includes Tali, who he always imagine her having the face of an angel underneath her mask, who have success at getting him after two conversation via coms and she didn't do any special favors for him. And he was comfortable enough to show off that he have the Commander Shepard as his girlfriend and shower her with all his attention and yet he didn't know how to say "I love you, Shepard." because the vids didn't prepare him for it. Instead of Shepard having to order him to kiss her like an idiot, I would want to know exactly where he was going with the relationship because it seems like I have to stab his liver with a dagger and twisting it because he have to be critically injured for him to actually say what he felt. Not even Aric Jorgan do this to me and they romance the same Jennifer Hale.
- He quit his job to join the Normandy, because he wanted Saren to face justice for his crimes. He couldn't do that with his job. The Normandy crew was doing exactly what he was hoping to do, of course he joins to help.
- He didn't 'fail' as a vigilante, he got betrayed and stabbed in the back by one of his own members. He joins the Normandy because there's a bigger threat to fight once again.
- He spent six months as a Reaper Advisor because maybe perhaps possibly he was part of the crew who stopped the Reaper's allies Saren from invading the Citadel and the Collectors from creating a human reaper? And once again; he joined the Normandy because he wanted to actively stop the biggest threat.
- I'm fairly certain the "shocked because everyone was paid but him" is a joke.
- Technically every companion ever simply exists to tag along. Cause otherwise the game would be pretty damn boring.
- You can't romance anyone without doing their personal quest in ME2, it's not exclusive to Garrus.
- He isn't interested in a relationship unless you flirt? *GASP* Who knew, some individuals don't like to take the first step/initiative!
- Oh I don't think it's Garrus who has insecurities...
- Honest question; why do you equate everyone who doesn't (want to) make the first move with a 'virginal teenage boy'?
- Curse Garrus for making a funny joke of his almost lethal injuries! Gaaaah!
- You don't really know what goes on between companions - including Tali and Garrus - when Shepard is not there, who knows how much they've been in contact ever since they met.
- Shocking news; aliens are not accustomed to human interactions and some people don't need to say "I love you" in order to love someone.
- Not every person blurts out their emotions and what they feel at all times, shocking, I know. Garrus genuinely loves Shepard, regardless of whether or not he vocally expresses this.
I would prefer they did either 4 bisexual LIs (2 of each ender) or they don't go beyond the 2/2/2 scheme, meaning 3 of each gender with 2 straight, 2 gay and 2 bi. I think they should balance the options and make it fair for everyone, but I think expanding past 6 LIs thins the content out too much, and honestly I think 4 was fine. The "all bisexual" approach is something other games use, also. Fallout 4 did this and I didn't notice a huge amount of backlash against the game. I don't think that many people actually care, probably just a few care very loudly.
I would prefer they did either 4 bisexual LIs (2 of each ender) or they don't go beyond the 2/2/2 scheme, meaning 3 of each gender with 2 straight, 2 gay and 2 bi. I think they should balance the options and make it fair for everyone, but I think expanding past 6 LIs thins the content out too much, and honestly I think 4 was fine. The "all bisexual" approach is something other games use, also. Fallout 4 did this and I didn't notice a huge amount of backlash against the game. I don't think that many people actually care, probably just a few care very loudly.
Bethesda might have been able to do it, but with how people reacted to Dragon Age 2 and the rise of the word "playersexual" when BioWare did what you are suggesting I doubt it would go over nearly as well today.
Bethesda might have been able to do it, but with how people reacted to Dragon Age 2 and the rise of the word "playersexual" when BioWare did what you are suggesting I doubt it would go over nearly as well today.
I honestly think this is a bit blown out of proportion. "Controversy" always looks bigger if you're going by the BSN, but I doubt a huge portion of players overall actually cared.
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