252 réponses à ce sujet

[KaiserShep]

That is a terrible idea. For starters, it leaves female Dwarves and Qunari with zero male options. Not to mention it screws everyone who liked Blackwall, Dorian, Josephine, and The Iron Bull over. I wouldn't be romancing anyone in your line up. 

 

 

In fairness to the first point, if the romances were pared down to this lot, the race restriction might not really be there, save for perhaps Solas for obvious reasons. Other than that, I don't really see reducing it to this group really improving anything, but then I really enjoy the way they did the romances in this game as they were (though I understand your frustration with Trespasser and the limited marriage options). 

[Degs29]

I'd agree with this...up until the point they cut the romance I want.

 

I think it'd be simpler to have all the LIs be romance-able regardless of your sex, rather than make a bunch of shallow romances just so you're covering all your bases:  straight, gay, trans, etc.  Don't make gender identity a limitation.  I'm not sure I'd mention gender identity at all. 

[aoibhealfae]

I have to separate this into two posts because forum format is no being terribly nice at the moment to me and my posts.

 

With the exception of his time as a vigilante on Omega, all of the other instances of supposed "freeloading" has basically been him basically doing a job and working even if he was not always paid for it.

 

Garrus quit his job to join an agent of the government’s team to pursue what he believed to be a dangerous criminal because he saw no other way of doing so. Given that he joins the field team and employs his combat skills to help in the mission, I wouldn’t call it freeloading. Is Tali freeloading? Is Wrex freeloading?

 

He joined a suicide mission and lived onboard the Normandy as a part of the mission including by, once again, employing his combat skills and technical knowledge to help the mission. Again, I wouldn’t call this freeloading especially given that the Thanix Cannon ends up proving kind of valuable. Is Tali freeloading? Is Thane freeloading? Is Samara freeloading? Is Joker freeloading? Is Shepard freeloading?

 

So Garrus going to his father as a last resort in a desperate attempt to do something in preparation for the Reapers is… freeloading? Despite the fact that he did what he could with the task force he was given and that he joined Shepard to further help Palaven against the Reapers.

 

I have to ask by which definition you are using the word freeloading? Because every time Garrus has joined up with Shepard or anyone else for that matter, he’s done the exact opposite of freeloading. Here is a common definition of a freeloader;

 

Freeloader: “a person who takes advantage of others' generosity without giving anything in return.”

 

 
So? That is the requirement for all of the romances in Mass Effect 2 as far as I can remember.
 

 
So? Sometimes people develop feelings for each other or realize they have feelings for each other over the course of a relationship, sometimes a friendly relationship and sometimes a casual relationship.
 
Speaking of which, the relationship in Mass Effect 2 is initially a casual relationship that develops into a romantic relationship and continues as romantic in Mass Effect 3.

 

Additionally, there is little to no precedence for a turian and human relationship so that he hadn't considered a interspecies liason between a human and a turian is not exactly surprising. 
 

I'd like to see some quote citation and video evidence to support this claim, please. This is partially because, as I've mentioned previously, Garrus says in Mass Effect 3 that he did not want to assume anything. This only make sense seeing as the relationship he and Shepard had in Mass Effect 2 was originally a casual liason that developed into an unspoken, romantic relationship between the two. 
 
Also, when did I claim that Garrus was and I quote for emphasis; "-virginal teenage boy who need to come out of his shell because he haven't found his right girl yet."?
 

 
So? I have no context for the version of the line you are referring to so for all I know, the context is a romanced Garrus saying this line while teasingly implying that Shepard is one of the women that finds facial scars attractive. This only make senses given that it is more or less a joke between the two as  evident in this scene where Shepard laughs when he says this;
 
Garrus: "The scars are starting to fade. I remember they drove you wild."
Shepard: "*laughs*"
 

 

I know it happens but I cannot remember much, if any, of that. There is a precedence for turian and quarian relationships so that is not odd. It also seems likely that Tali was straightforward about wanting a romantic relationship or that they developed feelings for each other over the course of Mass Effect 3.
 
You could provide a quote of him saying he always imagined her as having the face of an angel since that sounds an odd line given that turian religion do not have angels but spirits but hey, that may simply be either the writers forgetting or me misremembering.

 

I am assume by "special favor", you are referring to loyalty mission in Mass Effect 2? As far as I know, Garrus is dead if his loyalty mission is not completed and if he is alive, his loyalty mission has been resolved one way or another meaning the thing that is preventing him from moving on has been dealt with. 
 

 
I'm going to quote myself on this own because it seems to have been missed in the previous post; "Some couples don't feel the need to tell the other that they love them unless in special situations: this does not mean that they love each other less than a couple that does often tell the other that they love them. Shepard and Garrus seem to be more the former kind of couple."

 

 

Thankfully, romances can and tend to differ from each other which I think is a great thing because it can help add variety and allow you to find a romance that is to your taste and preference. Speaking of which, your taste and preference seem to be more towards a relationship like the one in the Kaidan romance and generally romances where the couple in question frequently tell each other that they love each other. Personally, I like relationships where this is the case such as with Solas and relationships where this is not the case such as with Solas.

 

I actually wrote a reply while writing another but accidentally deleted it but I'm happy to entertain you this fine morning.

 

Garrus always felt he couldn't live up to his father as a C-Sec officer. After his mandatory military service, He gave up his dream joining Spectre training and got a job which he didn't have his heart on. He quit because he felt he didn't like paperworks and he felt rules and regulations prevented him from doing what he think was right. His last straw was failing at building a case against Saren because he is a Spectre and there's a lot of red tape. He piggy back on Shepard because he thought being Spectre, you have all the authority to do what you want regardless of all cost. Whether he was with Shepard in ME1 or not, he was present at Citadel during Sovereign attack and felt helpless. He wanted to make his life different according to his own philosophy and he found himself wandering in Omega and saving Sidonis from being beaten up. He made a merc group and became overly ambitious and got his team killed because the people he was trying to kill and the relatives of people he killled decided to attack him back. He was blinded by his self-righteousness, was outplayed and outgunned and still needed Shepard to rescue him from his mistakes. He left Shepard and during the six months of incarceration for Palaven. He turned to his father who was a friend to the Primarch of Paleven and got himself his Reaper Taskforce. When Shepard came by to rescue a Primarch, he piggy-back up again because he missed his giant gun and his mancave. Every character have professional and personal reasons to be on the ship but none of them simply quit everything to be a failed space batman.

 

Shepard rescue him from the Med bay. Shepard help him kill Saleon. Shepard rescue him from Omega. Shepard help him deal with Sidonis. Shepard work hard to upgrade the ship with a giant gun for him to play with. Shepard ensure his survival in Suicide Mission. Shepard pick him up from Menae.  There's a lot of work on Shepard's part was it? 

 

He wasn't formally employed by either Alliance or Cerberus nor a representative from the Turian hierarchy or military to make his presence significant to his species. He was granted with no title except for the one he gain as a merc. The Primarch only gave him a role that have no effect to the general war asset regardless of his presence. Shepard survive well without his presence in ME1 and ME3. Even his recruitment as the first five default pre-Horizon was irrelevant since everyone have dialogues in his scene and he could die on Normandy or Collector Base. His character was never written with a permanence. He simply someone who sit inside your ship and making himself appear busy and happily have Shepard do everything for himself to keep him around.

 

Garrus can be unloyal in ME3 and live. His only romance requirement is having him in ME1 as a crew and do his loyalty quest. His conversation and his interaction devoid of any interest outside of seeing one another as a friend. And I've replied to an earlier poster, not all romances in ME2 require loyalty check to flirt. There's a lot of characters where you can approach with interest before their loyalty missions. Kelly is one of the romance you can fully pursue without any personal quest and pre-SM. You could have a one night stand with Jack or have her talk more about herself. You could admire Miranda perfect body as she talk about herself. Jacob was downright a flirt until he tone it down after his loyalty quest. Thane was open to FemShep if she want to get to know him better. You could see that Tali have a slight crush on either Shepard and this interactions build up further during her loyalty quest.

Meanwhile Garrus this after his talk about the merc gang. Forgot all about this have we?

There's no way around. You can only flirt with him during his "flexibility and reach" talk. 

 

So, by "casual to romantic" relationship, you meant Garrus was a friend who turned into Shepard's f*ck buddy in ME2? And that Shepard was lying when she said he wasn't a distraction. Their interactions in 2185 wasn't serious for both of them? That it was a joke for both of them? And here I thought I was too harsh on Garrus.

 

A lot of couple don't read minds either. Garrus isn't expressive and you can't read his face and his voice is another matter especially with all the noise in it. You can have Shepard being in love so ardently and openly toward Garrus but he would maneuver his way around to avoid having to mirror her anticipation by focusing on Shepard being the center of attention. No need to talk about his feelings, just let him do the talking and make you feel better, make you feel wanted, make you feel needed, make you feel right, make you feel important, make you feel special. That was what he does best actually.

But was it a love story? Or just a tale of a turian having his hands full with a Spectre who love him and his hard work trying to please her.

 

"But Tali's choice... that'll be harder to get over. She was a good friend. I never did see her face, but I always imagined there was... What do humans call it? An angel behind that mask. And now I hope she's resting with them."

[Nocte ad Mortem]

Yeah, ouch.  ME certainly doesn't have a history of balanced romances -- it makes even less sense when DA has been offering same-sex parings since the beginning. I felt ME might've perhaps favored those who like just females. ME1 had Liara for femShep, and Kelly in 2 to a lesser extent, and then 2 more females in 3 while losing 2 males -- and then all the LIs for a maleShep...  I'm just fortunate that I actually liked Kaidan and got to carry that relationship through the trilogy.

 

I place Sebastian in the group with Kelly, Allers and Harding. They have romantic content, but they're not "really romances" -- even though Sebastian was included in the Keep as one for DAI. Most don't like his limited romance, and honestly, I don't understand why Bioware continues with these barely-LIs when people are hardly ever satisfied with them. It seems like wasted energy on a half-attempted relationship.

 

The romances are a chance to learn more, special details about characters, but it has never made sense to withhold certain information that isn't isolated to romance. The vallaslin thing is borderline idiotic -- especially since Corypheus mentions it to a Dalish in the final battle... If I hadn't played a female elf and romanced Solas the first time I would've been SO confused.

 

I love Anders (obviously ) and his romance, but it felt messy. I posted something about it on another thread:

 

Considering Anders' personality and his history in the Circle, it's perhaps reasonable that he wouldn't talk about Karl to a friend strictly in the sense that it's intimate information that he doesn't share easily -- considering that he says love is something the templars use as a means of control, I could see why he'd be more guarded just on that front. (And by extension, maybe Jack too.) Somebody wouldn't necessarily tell a friend what they'd tell a trusted lover. But even so, it changes almost everything once we learn about their past together. It all says so much more than simply "Anders also likes men" and I'm not sure they realized it at the time.

 

I'm certainly not picky about the race/appearance of an LI but I can understand why some people want what they haven't yet been able to have. It can just get overwhelming. All I know is that I like the character first and foremost; that they happen to be drell or elven is a bonus. 

I like the Anders romance, too. My canon Hawke romances Anders with him still alive and the "support" option chosen in the Keep. I think what makes the scene weird, though, is that you're not really a trusted anything yet. You just have to flirt a bit to get that extra information. You basically don't know him any better at that point than someone that didn't flirt. The relationship doesn't commence in any capacity until substantially later on. I could maybe understand he's putting this out there to a romanced partner if it was towards the end of the game, considering he moves in and DA2 has a very long time span compared to other games. At the point he tells you, though, there's not much connection between you. So, it's just a weird decision. He thinks he needs to hide it, but not from someone he barely knows in this specific context. I think it's probably that they didn't want to make people uncomfortable with the straight romance, if I'm being honest. There's less stigma on talking about the hot pirate girl being with women, because there's less stigma towards that with the real world audience. I think there's less and less issue with same sex romances in games as time goes on, though. It's in almost everything with romance choices now. I think they'll probably make less and less questionable decisions as it becomes more the norm and they're less squeamish about how they handle it. 

 

I kind of wish they wouldn't do the side "barely romances", too. I think Sebastian is more like Solas than Harding in terms of what's in the romance, but I get the general point you're making there. I'd rather they just used the resources to flesh out the "real" romance options more.

 

As for people asking for specific races, or like a "pro-mage" or "Andrastrian" romance, I think it's totally fine to ask. Giving feedback on what you want to see is totally fine. I just think it's weird when people act like it's the same to not get that as shorting real world demographics. Being a little disappointed and like "I hope we see x next time" is understandable, but being morally outraged because there's no dwarf LI is.. strange. 

[Nocte ad Mortem]

I agree OP, less is more.  Give us three or four LIs and make them available to everyone. 

 

For DAI the core romances should have been (Solas, Cullen, Sera, and Cass), all available to both genders with Solas gated for elves only and Cullen gated for humans and elves only.

I doubt that would be the lineup. It would have probably been Iron Bull, Blackwall, Sera and Cassandra. Probably scrap the NPC romances. Solas wouldn't be one of them, he's way too limited in content. They wouldn't pick one of the only two male LIs as someone that breaks it off before you're even official and then goes off to maybe destroy the world. They also actually "officially" said back during the reveals that Solas and Cullen were the "extras". 

 

I think Blackwall was a bad choice for their main straight male, which is what they said was originally planned for a 2/2/2 lineup. It should have always been Cullen originally, imo. I have no idea why it wasn't. They knew that's where the demand was. I think ideally they would have done Josephine/Iron Bull (bi), Cullen/Cassandra (straight) and Dorian/Sera (gay). The original 6 LIs could have worked great if they didn't make the weird decision to have Blackwall as their main straight male romance. He's consistently polled as the least popular LI in the game, by far, so I feel like it's not just me having bad taste here. 

[Dalinne]

I actually wrote a reply while writing another but accidentally deleted it but I'm happy to entertain you this fine morning.

 

Garrus always felt he couldn't live up to his father as a C-Sec officer. After his mandatory military service, He gave up his dream joining Spectre training and got a job which he didn't have his heart on. He quit because he felt he didn't like paperworks and he felt rules and regulations prevented him from doing what he think was right. His last straw was failing at building a case against Saren because he is a Spectre and there's a lot of red tape. He piggy back on Shepard because he thought being Spectre, you have all the authority to do what you want regardless of all cost. Whether he was with Shepard in ME1 or not, he was present at Citadel during Sovereign attack and felt helpless. He wanted to make his life different according to his own philosophy and he found himself wandering in Omega and saving Sidonis from being beaten up. He made a merc group and became overly ambitious and got his team killed because the people he was trying to kill and the relatives of people he killled decided to attack him back. He was blinded by his self-righteousness, was outplayed and outgunned and still needed Shepard to rescue him from his mistakes. He left Shepard and during the six months of incarceration for Palaven. He turned to his father who was a friend to the Primarch of Paleven and got himself his Reaper Taskforce. When Shepard came by to rescue a Primarch, he piggy-back up again because he missed his giant gun and his mancave. Every character have professional and personal reasons to be on the ship but none of them simply quit everything to be a failed space batman.

 

Shepard rescue him from the Med bay. Shepard help him kill Saleon. Shepard rescue him from Omega. Shepard help him deal with Sidonis. Shepard work hard to upgrade the ship with a giant gun for him to play with. Shepard ensure his survival in Suicide Mission. Shepard pick him up from Menae.  There's a lot of work on Shepard's part was it? 

 

He wasn't formally employed by either Alliance or Cerberus nor a representative from the Turian hierarchy or military to make his presence significant to his species. He was granted with no title except for the one he gain as a merc. The Primarch only gave him a role that have no effect to the general war asset regardless of his presence. Shepard survive well without his presence in ME1 and ME3. Even his recruitment as the first five default pre-Horizon was irrelevant since everyone have dialogues in his scene and he could die on Normandy or Collector Base. His character was never written with a permanence. He simply someone who sit inside your ship and making himself appear busy and happily have Shepard do everything for himself to keep him around.

 

Garrus can be unloyal in ME3 and live. His only romance requirement is having him in ME1 as a crew and do his loyalty quest. His conversation and his interaction devoid of any interest outside of seeing one another as a friend. And I've replied to an earlier poster, not all romances in ME2 require loyalty check to flirt. There's a lot of characters where you can approach with interest before their loyalty missions. Kelly is one of the romance you can fully pursue without any personal quest and pre-SM. You could have a one night stand with Jack or have her talk more about herself. You could admire Miranda perfect body as she talk about herself. Jacob was downright a flirt until he tone it down after his loyalty quest. Thane was open to FemShep if she want to get to know him better. You could see that Tali have a slight crush on either Shepard and this interactions build up further during her loyalty quest.

Meanwhile Garrus this after his talk about the merc gang. Forgot all about this have we?

There's no way around. You can only flirt with him during his "flexibility and reach" talk. 

 

So, by "casual to romantic" relationship, you meant Garrus was a friend who turned into Shepard's f*ck buddy in ME2? And that Shepard was lying when she said he wasn't a distraction. Their interactions in 2185 wasn't serious for both of them? That it was a joke for both of them? And here I thought I was too harsh on Garrus.

 

A lot of couple don't read minds either. Garrus isn't expressive and you can't read his face and his voice is another matter especially with all the noise in it. You can have Shepard being in love so ardently and openly toward Garrus but he would maneuver his way around to avoid having to mirror her anticipation by focusing on Shepard being the center of attention. No need to talk about his feelings, just let him do the talking and make you feel better, make you feel wanted, make you feel needed, make you feel right, make you feel important, make you feel special. That was what he does best actually.

But was it a love story? Or just a tale of a turian having his hands full with a Spectre who love him and his hard work trying to please her.

 

"But Tali's choice... that'll be harder to get over. She was a good friend. I never did see her face, but I always imagined there was... What do humans call it? An angel behind that mask. And now I hope she's resting with them."

 

Ok, I start to think Garrus broke your heart or something 

That amount of hate for a character is pretty intense.

You can have that canon in your head if you like, but that characterization of Garrus you make seems to me very unreliable because the amount of hate. It's like those people who hate Liara so hard they mischaracterize her completely in order to make her more like a cartoon than a real character.

[Spirit Vanguard]

I like the Anders romance, too. My canon Hawke romances Anders with him still alive and the "support" option chosen in the Keep. I think what makes the scene weird, though, is that you're not really a trusted anything yet. You just have to flirt a bit to get that extra information. You basically don't know him any better at that point than someone that didn't flirt. The relationship doesn't commence in any capacity until substantially later on. I could maybe understand he's putting this out there to a romanced partner if it was towards the end of the game, considering he moves in and DA2 has a very long time span compared to other games. At the point he tells you, though, there's not much connection between you. So, it's just a weird decision. He thinks he needs to hide it, but not from someone he barely knows in this specific context. I think it's probably that they didn't want to make people uncomfortable with the straight romance, if I'm being honest. There's less stigma on talking about the hot pirate girl being with women, because there's less stigma towards that with the real world audience. I think there's less and less issue with same sex romances in games as time goes on, though. It's in almost everything with romance choices now. I think they'll probably make less and less questionable decisions as it becomes more the norm and they're less squeamish about how they handle it. 

 

I kind of wish they wouldn't do the side "barely romances", too. I think Sebastian is more like Solas than Harding in terms of what's in the romance, but I get the general point you're making there. I'd rather they just used the resources to flesh out the "real" romance options more.

 

As for people asking for specific races, or like a "pro-mage" or "Andrastrian" romance, I think it's totally fine to ask. Giving feedback on what you want to see is totally fine. I just think it's weird when people act like it's the same to not get that as shorting real world demographics. Being a little disappointed and like "I hope we see x next time" is understandable, but being morally outraged because there's no dwarf LI is.. strange. 

 

My canon is Hawke/Anders and it's the same.   Anders is actually a romance for 2 of my Hawkes (female and male, of course!) and I can't bring myself to say they didn't approve even if that particular Hawke wouldn't (although generally that's true for any Hawke, because otherwise it's "Anders is a monster" and the idea of remaining friends with him was repulsive -- not much middle ground there.) What Hawke says in support of Anders in DAI is so much better than the opposite.     (And I never kill Anders.)

 

That is true. Like I said I understand using Karl as a gauge, but, yeah. It's not a moment that happens after knowing him for longer which would've made a lot of sense -- for romance or friendship. If I'm not mistaken, the reasoning for why Anders didn't mention Karl is because they thought it would be strange for him to mention an ex boyfriend to a potential girlfriend... SO MUCH of that is just wrong. I really don't think it was malicious or anything on their part, but it's obvious they didn't really think about what was happening and it shows how awkward they were about handling that content. And I think you're right. Had Anders and Karl both been female it would've been mentioned to Hawke regardless -- it's not as though Isabela refrains from discussing her exploits much. It seems like a lot of people agree that Anders' romance didn't need that censorship. It's like they were anticipating something negative that didn't happen, which is actually worse. It's just that part of the real world leaking into DA and I don't like it.

 

Sebastian doesn't unlock the romance achievement and he isn't mentioned in the ending by Varric, so that coupled with his less content is why I don't particularly consider him on the same level as the others -- not until the Keep and his mention from Hawke in DAI.

 

I know what you mean. The amount of passion that people have for romantic content that doesn't exist is strong. I guess it starts to feel personal after so long or that they're being ignored. Personally I haven't felt that slighted. Yet. And I'm optimistic about MEA.

[Andrew Waples]

I'm 50/50 on this. Like the orginal Mass Effect, there were only three in total; two based on gender choice. However, I see no reason why all the companions can't be romanced. Two reasons: it adds replay-ability ( for me) and to me, not being able to at least ask the person first... it doesn't seem natural? Like Sera and Vivenne can turn you down, but you can at least ask. It just depends, but i'm guessing only humaniods (characters like Tail, as an example i'm under the assumption that one companion will be a new alien race)will be the only romanceable.

[fizzypop]

Bisexuals are "real" characters, just as much as any other sexuality. I've always thought it was silly that people get so hung up on the realism. Of course it's somewhat unlikely that you'd meet four bisexuals that are open to dating, but lots of things in these games are unlikely.

I agree with everything you wrote, but I wanted to kind of add a little to what you wrote here. I actually wouldn't find it that unrealistic as bisexuals make up around or about half of the LGBTQ community. While we don't outnumber straights on paper of course most of the statistics on that aren't exactly full proof. We know many straight people that have some flexibility in their sexuality. Heck, the majority of women who have made out with me and at least one who let me go all the way were all straight. Bisexuals get **** on a lot, but we may actually make up a good portion of the population. So I do get tired of the realism argument. Definitely real and definitely not that rare.

[Hazegurl]

I doubt that would be the lineup. It would have probably been Iron Bull, Blackwall, Sera and Cassandra. Probably scrap the NPC romances. Solas wouldn't be one of them, he's way too limited in content. They wouldn't pick one of the only two male LIs as someone that breaks it off before you're even official and then goes off to maybe destroy the world. They also actually "officially" said back during the reveals that Solas and Cullen were the "extras". 

 

I think Blackwall was a bad choice for their main straight male, which is what they said was originally planned for a 2/2/2 lineup. It should have always been Cullen originally, imo. I have no idea why it wasn't. They knew that's where the demand was. I think ideally they would have done Josephine/Iron Bull (bi), Cullen/Cassandra (straight) and Dorian/Sera (gay). The original 6 LIs could have worked great if they didn't make the weird decision to have Blackwall as their main straight male romance. He's consistently polled as the least popular LI in the game, by far, so I feel like it's not just me having bad taste here. 

I don't see what IB and Blackwall really add to the LI dept that they would have been chosen over Solas and Cullen if BW really had to restrict themselves to only four.  Solas reveals a big chunk of Elven lore to a romanced IQ. Cullen is extremely popular and offers some connection between the different games. I also think they offer more potential within the story, Cullen and his connection to the Templars and Solas for his connection to mages, spirits, et al. 

 

 I agree that Blackwall was a poor choice over Cullen for the main LI. idk what BW was thinking. But I also think that even 6 LIs is too many.

 

That is a terrible idea. For starters, it leaves female Dwarves and Qunari with zero male options. Not to mention it screws everyone who liked Blackwall, Dorian, Josephine, and The Iron Bull over. I wouldn't be romancing anyone in your line up.

 

 

Actually, In my idea Qunari and Dwarf IQ's wouldn't exist so only Solas would be gated, unless I add Cass to that and say she's human only. Which makes the most sense for her character anyway.  I would reduce the race options to just Elves and Humans and create two separate story paths for players to take so the race selection would actually be meaningful.   Josie would marry her noble or hook up with Blackwall. Dorian and IB could hook up, which seems to be popular anyway. 

[Battlebloodmage]

How deep?

 

[DanielCofour]

How about this: 

 

Unpopular opinion: abandon romances altogether. 

[GoldenGail3]

How about this: 

 

Unpopular opinion: abandon romances altogether. 

Oooh:

 

No hairstyles within game 

[DanielCofour]

Oooh:

 

No hairstyles within game 

 

Thing is, different hairstyles and proper hair physichs are a bit easier to implement than believable romances that would please all the various demographics out there(or even just a majority of them). I wasn't just pedantic when I said that. 

[GoldenGail3]

Thing is, different hairstyles and proper hair physichs are a bit easier to implement than believable romances that would please all the various demographics out there(or even just a majority of them). I wasn't just pedantic when I said that. 

True. Everyone will complain about it one way or another. 

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Actually, In my idea Qunari and Dwarf IQ's wouldn't exist so only Solas would be gated, unless I add Cass to that and say she's human only. Which makes the most sense for her character anyway.  I would reduce the race options to just Elves and Humans and create two separate story paths for players to take so the race selection would actually be meaningful.   Josie would marry her noble or hook up with Blackwall. Dorian and IB could hook up, which seems to be popular anyway. 

As I said, an absolutely terrible idea. I am extremely thankful you are not a Bioware dev. 

[ModernAcademic]

I think having around 4~5 romance options would be the decent minimal amount.

 

Any less than that and people will be disappointed, especially given how many companions we could romance in ME2 and 3 combined.

 

Also,don't forget: we'll be meeting new aliens in the next galaxy. Some species should be romanceable, too. Why not?

[GoldenGail3]

I think having around 4~5 romance options would be the decent minimal amount.

 

Any less than that and people will be disappointed, especially given how many companions we could romance in ME2 and 3 combined.

 

Also,don't forget: we'll be meeting new aliens in the next galaxy. Some species should be romanceable, too. Why not?

It doesn't matter how many romance choices their are - some people just will not like it.... 

[ModernAcademic]

It doesn't matter how many romance choices their are - some people just will not like it.... 

 

So long as we get the romances, the crowd of dissatisfied players can throw their angry, hissy fits in social media for as long as they like. Nothing will get in my way of getting Ryder laid with a krogan, no matter the size, if it fits, if it doesn't, whatever. It's become a matter of honor now. And the devs best throw in a salarian romance, too. And a species native to Andromeda since we're at it. And why not an asexual romance with a genderless species as well? I've always wanted to try an asexual relationship.

 

Love is an unstoppable force. 

[aoibhealfae]

Ok, I start to think Garrus broke your heart or something 

That amount of hate for a character is pretty intense.

You can have that canon in your head if you like, but that characterization of Garrus you make seems to me very unreliable because the amount of hate. It's like those people who hate Liara so hard they mischaracterize her completely in order to make her more like a cartoon than a real character.

 

No. Just criticizing bad romance writing in a romance thread that many claim it have depth when it have none. The only depth was the black hole of his fandom devotion to him. I don't get attached to a fictional character that it stop me from looking at them objectively. And I criticize Liara just as well particularly about her ME1 romance but I have to give credit to her writers who improve her characterization and romance in later games.

 

There's a lot of ways that I think he was sabotaged by the fandom who demanded him as an LI. He was written as a troubled guy in ME1 with a naive outlook to the world but you can alter parts of his personality and made him rethink of his life again and make him grow up. Shepard was allowed to disagree with him and make him question his own world-view. Then he suffered a drastic shift in characterization to accommodate his romantic interactions which have no real effect to the larger narrative. He became stock trigger-happy space batman character and a filler character symbolizing 'badassery'. Constantly churning crappy one-liners with no relevance. There was his preexisting prejudice against Quarian and Krogan which wasn't expanded further because racism isn't a likable trait in a fan-favourite. He exist merely because Shepard ensures his survival and he stagnates the remainder of the game. The romance suppressed his personal narrative and characterization even more rather than expanding it.

 

Shepard suddenly have very limited character agency in favor for a self-insert Sue with a turian kink. You're stuck with vanilla paragon or renegade romance dialogues that have no real consequences to how he perceive your Shepard. You could romance him before or after suicide mission. Have him die during suicide mission or survive. Lock-in romance scene at the Normandy or at the Citadel. Have him stay or make him leave so you could wake up alone. Take the interrupt or do not take the interrupt while talking to him at London. Spend more money on DLCs to add some romance content. But nothing else.. not even a chance to gift him turian chocolate.. and its a shame that if you don't romance either of them in the playthrough, you can't  encourage or discourage his romance from Tali like you can with Ken and Gabby, and Ashley and Vega. Heck, you flirt heavily with Vega than you can with Garrus.

 

I do think it was amazing that I do get branded as a hater when I merely describe the flaws and the badly written narrative that exist in his narrative in the game. Regardless whether my opinion is unpopular, Garrus don't need anyone to defend him from anything if he's really what everyone says he was. Romance preference is subjective after all.

[Shechinah]

So long as we get the romances, the crowd of dissatisfied players can throw their angry, hissy fits in social media for as long as they like. Nothing will get in my way of getting Ryder laid with a krogan, no matter the size, if it fits, if it doesn't, whatever. It's become a matter of honor now. And the devs best throw in a salarian romance, too. And a species native to Andromeda since we're at it. And why not an asexual romance with a genderless species as well? I've always wanted to try an asexual relationship.

 

Love is an unstoppable force. 

 

A salarian romance would be interesting and we do know salarians can and do engage in relationship. The relationships would simply not be sexual.
 

[Shechinah]

I thought I'd share this post Dean that I found and thought looked interesting. I'd love a rival-faction-ally as love interest.
 

I was thinking Udina, actually, but figured that'd be among the less desirable Bioware characters to bring up, lol.

What's interest about a rival-faction-ally is that there's the opportunity to try for conversion. You try to convince them, and they try to convince you. The fact that they try to change your mind, rather than dismiss you, serves as a sort of proof of interest, and the idea of 'winning them over' serves as an alternative metaphor for the chase/struggle/conquest/catch.

While, personally, I think a good 'evil' love interest should be self-confident enough in themselves and their beliefs to convert for you (the player should, after all, be interested in who they are, not just what they wish they would be), the idea of love/interest being enough to... I wouldn't say 'love redeems,' but maybe 'consider compromise' could be an interesting idea. If you could avoid the idea that they convert to your point of view- possibly by necessitating the player compromise to theirs- you could use a minor change as a significant character evolution.

To pick a Mass Effect context- imagine the love interest is a Ruthless Pragmatic Renegade. They have emotions, but are far from bleeding hearts. Not the sort of compromise or make concessions to terrorists even if they take hostages. A key point in the romance could be whether you accept that or not. Paragon is too good to accept losses, and so takes great risk and risks a potential break-up fight to attempt a hostage rescue. Renegade accepts his/her logic, and the losses, and shows understanding of the viewpoint they bring to the table.

But, later on it's the player who's in dire straights, and it's the Renegade LI who has to make the choice- possibly a deliberate setup by the Ruthless LI's enemies to hurt him/her. Be ruthless, and sacrifice you for the safety of the greater good? Or do what he said he wouldn't, and try for a better ending?

In such a setup, the Ruthless LI backing away from the 'Renegade' option- and trying to save you instead- would be a pretty cool and significant step for them. Character evolution in that they're not as heartless as they seemed (or tried to be). Emotional significance for the player, since the PC caused them to take that step. And then allowing fallout and emotional release afterwards, as the LI and PC reunite and accept the consequences and fallout.

[Dalinne]

No. Just criticizing bad romance writing in a romance thread that many claim it have depth when it have none. The only depth was the black hole of his fandom devotion to him. I don't get attached to a fictional character that it stop me from looking at them objectively. And I criticize Liara just as well particularly about her ME1 romance but I have to give credit to her writers who improve her characterization and romance in later games.

 

There's a lot of ways that I think he was sabotaged by the fandom who demanded him as an LI. He was written as a troubled guy in ME1 with a naive outlook to the world but you can alter parts of his personality and made him rethink of his life again and make him grow up. Shepard was allowed to disagree with him and make him question his own world-view. Then he suffered a drastic shift in characterization to accommodate his romantic interactions which have no real effect to the larger narrative. He became stock trigger-happy space batman character and a filler character symbolizing 'badassery'. Constantly churning crappy one-liners with no relevance. There was his preexisting prejudice against Quarian and Krogan which wasn't expanded further because racism isn't a likable trait in a fan-favourite. He exist merely because Shepard ensures his survival and he stagnates the remainder of the game. The romance suppressed his personal narrative and characterization even more rather than expanding it.

 

Shepard suddenly have very limited character agency in favor for a self-insert Sue with a turian kink. You're stuck with vanilla paragon or renegade romance dialogues that have no real consequences to how he perceive your Shepard. You could romance him before or after suicide mission. Have him die during suicide mission or survive. Lock-in romance scene at the Normandy or at the Citadel. Have him stay or make him leave so you could wake up alone. Take the interrupt or do not take the interrupt while talking to him at London. Spend more money on DLCs to add some romance content. But nothing else.. not even a chance to gift him turian chocolate.. and its a shame that if you don't romance either of them in the playthrough, you can't  encourage or discourage his romance from Tali like you can with Ken and Gabby, and Ashley and Vega. Heck, you flirt heavily with Vega than you can with Garrus.

 

I do think it was amazing that I do get branded as a hater when I merely describe the flaws and the badly written narrative that exist in his narrative in the game. Regardless whether my opinion is unpopular, Garrus don't need anyone to defend him from anything if he's really what everyone says he was. Romance preference is subjective after all.

 

1) I think the abrupt change from ME1 to ME2 also happens with Liara's character (from naive archeologist to short of ruthless information broker). However, in Garrus case I think is more organic: honestly, a vigilante is the short of thing Garrus would end doing without a major objective (in fact, that is what happens if you don't recruit him in ME1). I consider that a good feature of characterization: in that aspect, the player does not have complete control of the NPC,and I consider that a good sign. I hate when the character loses his/her free will in order to fullfil the player's expectations. You can argue that can happen with Garrus in ME3, but the same goes for other characters such as Liara, Vega, Kasumi etc. which you can't antagonize with (not like Tali, she can hate you in ME2 if you don't respect her decision about her father... but she will come to terms in ME3 so...).

 

2) Trigger-happy Batman??? I think you don't understand some people use sense of humour as a copy-mechanism. I don't see Garrus as a very happy per se. Sometimes he gets fun, but the majority of time he is trying to get over the **** all of your team gets through.

 

3) He was racist against quarians and krogans in ME1, yes. That surprised me at first, because he didn't seem to have problems with Liara (Asari) or more surprising, with the humans of the Normandy and the squad. I think it was related to C-Sec: Garrus was used to work with Salarians, Asari AND Humans in C-Sec, and probably as some cops he had his own bias against quarians (as the cop from ME2 "they are vagrants and thieves") and Krogans (as Turians and Salarians in genera see the Krogan as brutes and mercs). However, you seem to forget this elevator conversation in ME1:

Garrus: I’d been raised to see krogan as bloodthirsty thugs, but you’ve surprised me, Wrex. You are different.

Wrex: The genophage is a lot easier to swallow when all krogan are savage monsters, isn’t it? Why don’t you head back to the Normandy, kid? If you stay here in the real world, you might have to learn something.

To sum up, I think you totally dismiss Garrus character evolution in ME1. And, in addition, he commanded a team with a Batarian, a Salarian and Humans in Omega. It's not like the devs wanted to make him relatable for no reason. It would have been pretty stupid for a character who has been in two multirracial teams to be an racist ass****. Who would have followed his lead in Omega?

 

3) You give so much credit to the ME2 Garrus romance for the changes you see... First of all, half of the players don't even have the romance option because they play as male Shepard. Secondly, Garrus' romance content is minimal comparing to Jacob's romance and Thane's romance. Why? Because devs didn't expect that romance will be so popular. That's why in ME3 Garrus romance FINALLY seems like a real romance, because devs took it seriously. 

 

4) You can romance him AFTER the Suicide Mission??? HOW??? That would be a great change for my FSheps

 

5) Why should you have agency in other's people business? Honestly, I don't like how Shepard has so many agency in other's people love lives. My Parage Shepard always like to help others and she is pretty romantic, but Renegon Shepard is terrified to be mixed with other's people private choices. I think is great if you don't romance neither Tali or Garrus they end together simply because they wanted to. They make a great couple (and I don't have any problems with these two together when I romance Kaidan with my MShep). 

 

6) I wouldn't mind if you were saying your opinion. As I already said you can have the headcanon of how horrible Garrus is in your head all writen in this forum, it doesn't bother me at all. But actually, you are not stating your opinion, you are trying to state as a fact  your vision of Garrus. I'm afraid I've never agreed you with that one. Apart from the romance, Garrus is one of my favourite characters of ME series and I'm really glad at the end he has the most enjoyable romance content for me  So...     

[Zindawg]

I think I may have actually developed real emotions for Tali over the course of the Mass Effect trilogy, and I have no idea why.

I'm actually really worried :\

Maybe I just have a thing for Quarians, so hopefully ME:A has a fem Quarian romance available. RIP irl gf 

[Dalinne]

I think I may have actually developed real emotions for Tali over the course of the Mass Effect trilogy, and I have no idea why.

I'm actually really worried :\

Maybe I just have a thing for Quarians, so hopefully ME:A has a fem Quarian romance available. RIP irl gf 

It is normal, Tali is adorable 

(just don't bring her to an intergalactic Karaoke for godshake  )