26 replies to this topic

[PapaCharlie9]

Tips for first-time, new players

 

In the first third of the game, you can defeat anything with three pretty simple techniques:

1. Have a tank warrior under AI control and have them spam Horn of Valor/Fortifying Blast, Tactic set to Preferred in the Character Record
2. Have your highest Critical Chance% character throw Bee grenades -- upgraded as much as possible. There are two boss battles you have to fight before you get to Skyhold, use Bee grenades for both of them to make your life easier.
3. Everyone else should equip Regenerate Health potions, upgraded as much as possible. Drink one at the start of any battle that is giving you trouble, like a Rift:
   1. Optionally, have everyone else equip Antivan Fire grenades, good for anything that isn't fire resistant.
   2. See Tempered Glass Flasks Perk discussion below

The first item requires the Trespasser DLC. If you don't have Trespasser DLC, get it right away. If you can't (PS3, Xbox, can't afford it), get or craft armor with the highest armor rating you can and equip accessories that boost max health. Not heal bonuses, max health.

 

Tip for using Antivan Fire: it has a big AoE  (Area of Effect) and stays put, so don't necessarily throw it on an enemy -- they might just run out of the AoE. Instead, either put it in the middle of the area where you think the most melee combat is going to happen, like centered on your Taunting tank, or, put it defensively on your weakest ranged character, like a mage. Having a circle of fire around a mage means that any melee enemies that close with that mage to hit them have to take a lot of fire damage.

 

Perks

 

Perks can make a huge difference in the first third of the game, so focus on collecting them in the most cost-effective way possible. I would prioritize Perks in this order:

1. Tempered Glass Flasks (1 point in Inquisition, no requirements) - so that everyone can have Regen potions and carry grenades
2. More Healing Potions (1 point in Forces, 3 points in category -- 2 or 3 from agents in the Hinterlands or Storm Coast)
3. One of:
   • Antivan Tailoring or History Knowledge (towards getting Exclusive Training for non-human Inquisitors, 1 point in Inquisition, no requirements)
   • Deft Hands, Fine Tools (1 point in Secrets, 4 points in category -- all from agents)

The extra potion/grenade slot doesn't have to be used for grenades. If your rogue or warrior would rather carry Mighty Offense tonic, or a defensive tonic like Stone Skin, that's fine. At least one character should carry Bees and another Antivan Fire, though. They are just too useful not to have in the first third of the game.

 

More Healing Potions is tough to get on agents alone. You either have to do a fairly long and potentially risky series of fetch quests to get Vale's Irregulars, or, you have to open the Storm Coast and fight a demi-boss battle to get the Blades of Hessarian. A lot of first-time players enjoy doing Vale's Irregulars, particularly if you are playing a helpful hero, so knock yourself out if that's what you like. It certainly helps with Perks.

 

It's not cost-effective to get Deft Hands, Fine Tools before Skyhold -- you need agent Jana from Crestwood to complete the 4 points in category requirement. Well, you could do it without Jana, but it would be a waste of Perk points. It's more efficient to gather agents to pay most of the requirements. See my Making Short Work of the Hinterlands for a guide on how to get most of the agents you need for Deft Hands, Fine Tools while spending the least amount of time in the Hinterlands.

 

Exclusive Training isn't really needed by human Inquisitors, because they already start with 1 extra point. Of course, having another extra point is good, but the cost is pretty high, since it requires 4 points in the Inquisition category, which doesn't have very much useful in it. For non-humans, the 4 points is more worth it, but there are higher priorities, like getting Advanced and Master Focus in Forces after you get to Skyhold.

 

NOTE: You don't have to spend Perk points the moment you get them. I often end up with an extra Perk point before getting to Skyhold. I just hold onto it, don't spend it, until I get Jana from Crestwood, then I spend the point on Deft Hands.

 

Grenades and Upgrades

 

You have to invite Sera to join the Inquisition to get the Bee Grenade recipe. You can kick her out after the War Table mission "Red Jenny: Inquisition Needs Beeees!" is completed, if you want. Just don't kick her out the first time you meet her.

 

Antivan Fire Recipe has to be purchased from the Crossroads Merchant in the Hinterlands.

 

Upgrades to Healing and Regeneration potions, and Grenades, require rare ingredients. If you are lucky, you will get most or all of those ingredients from loot in Haven itself. You always start with one Dawn Lotus when you wake up in bed in Haven. You may get one or a few Dragonthorn in various loot bags and boxes.

 

If you don't roll lucky, you will have to open some new maps, which means Power. You should have an excess of Power if you followed the Hinterlands guide above, but if not, close a few more Rifts or do some Requisitions to get the required Power to open, as needed (to upgrade Healing, Regeneration potions, Bees and Antivan Fire grenades):

• Hinterlands for 2 x Royal Elfroot (should already be open)
• Forbidden Oasis to get 2 x Withersalk and 3 x Dragonthorn
• Fallow Mire to get 2 x Dawn Lotus

To open the Forbidden Oasis, you have to pick up at least one Shard from the Hinterlands. Look through one of the skull Ocularums (the one near the Upper Lake Camp is most convenient), spot the Shards, and pick one up. You only need one to make the Forbidden Oasis available on the War Table map. The Witherstalk and Dragonthorn are right near the first camp. Just head due west, skirting the rock wall and search. The Dragonthorn is near the rocks, the Witherstalk is a bit more south in the desert sand. You should be able to get all that you need (see below) without having to fight anything.

 

For the Fallow Mire, it can be tough for a low level character. Avoid fighting anything! Do not step in the water! From the camp, skirt the rock wall to the east and carefully move south. Keep your left hand against the rock wall as much as possible. If you hug that wall and follow it south, you eventually get to one of the Mysterious Veilfire Rune beacon areas. Don't go near that thing! Instead, continue south until you see water, you'll be standing on a broken bridge or wharf. Dawn Lotus is right below you, on the water's edge. Jump down on dry land and skirt the shore until you can pick all the Dawn Lotus. Then fast travel back to Haven.

 

You'll also need a ton of Elfroot and Blood Lotus. 120x Elfroot and 150x Blood Lotus would not be too many.

 

Go back to Haven and upgrade, in priority order:

1. Healing Potions - Increase Healing 1
2. Regeneration Potions - Increase Healing 1
3. Regeneration Potions - Increase Duration 1
4. Jar of Bees - Increase Duration 1
5. Jar of Bees - Increase Duration 2
6. Antivan Fire - Increase Damage 1 (optional)
7. Antivan Fire - Increase Duration 1 (optional)

Conclusion

 

With careful attention to gear and abilities, you can survive Nightmare with the above. On Easy, you could run naked with the worst weapons and only use auto attacks and still survive.

[Mike3207]

Is it Tempered Glass Flasks that lets you unlock that third potion slot. I recall reading one of the perks let you use it.

[PapaCharlie9]

Is it Tempered Glass Flasks that lets you unlock that third potion slot. I recall reading one of the perks let you use it.

 

Correct, that's what it is for.

[Bigdawg13]

Interesting perspective.  Just shows how there are multiple solutions to the same problem.  I never get Tempered Flasks until after Skyhold and only really use grenades pre-skyhold when I can give them to a Rogue who has the Trespasser poisoned weapons + heal self upgrade.  Really not necessary.  

 

If you are playing melee, make sure your mage has winter's grasp AND ice mine.  Also the passive for causing things to freeze when barrier breaks.

 

The only upgrade a tank should have on EVERY playthrough is upgraded warcry with bonus armor.  Set it to preferred.  

 

If playing with 'Walk Softly' trial enabled, get Shield Bash on your tank and Dispel on every mage.

 

Everyone should have regen potions.

[PapaCharlie9]

 

If you are playing melee, make sure your mage has winter's grasp AND ice mine.  Also the passive for causing things to freeze when barrier breaks.

 

 

 

Mana Surge, in the Winter Tree.

 

Personally, I would prioritize Ice Armor over Mana Surge, and make sure Ice Mine is upgraded to Chilling Array (Trespasser required).

[Mike3207]

The wikia suggested the first 4 dialogue option perks(likeHistory Knowledge) and Deft hands. Fine Tools at start, so that's how I spent my first 5 perks. I think I was able to get 5 before Skyhold, but i held off on the main quests a bit for exploration.

 

I'll admit, 3 potion slots and 4 extra potions would have been very useful against the Hinterlands Dragon. I think I went into that fight with 8 potions and 3 healing mists, and I used all of them.

 

I've gotten the Dawn Lotus in Haven, but I don't think you always start with it. You do always start with one elfroot.

[Bigdawg13]

Mana Surge, in the Winter Tree.

 

Personally, I would prioritize Ice Armor over Mana Surge, and make sure Ice Mine is upgraded to Chilling Array (Trespasser required).

 

When playing melee, I disagree strongly about chilling array.  I admit it's amazing if you are playing the mage, or if you like to micro-manage your mage.  But if you let the AI do it, they just cast it where they stand and that is normally far from the fight.  By not upgrading it, the mage will place it under the pile of enemies your tank (and/or you) have accumulated freezing them all.  Then you whirlwind and collect the loot.  Same reason Mana Surge is better than Ice Armor.  

 

The only time I give a mage chilling array is if I'm controlling them or it's a Knight Enchanter where I've give spirit blade preferred tactic.  Otherwise it's a waste.  If the enemies run to your mage then your tank isn't doing their job.

[Bigdawg13]

The wikia suggested the first 4 dialogue option perks(likeHistory Knowledge) and Deft hands. Fine Tools at start, so that's how I spent my first 5 perks. I think I was able to get 5 before Skyhold, but i held off on the main quests a bit for exploration.

 

I'll admit, 3 potion slots and 4 extra potions would have been very useful against the Hinterlands Dragon. I think I went into that fight with 8 potions and 3 healing mists, and I used all of them.

 

I've gotten the Dawn Lotus in Haven, but I don't think you always start with it. You do always start with one elfroot.

 

This is why I don't get Tempered Flasks until after Skyhold.  I'm too busy picking up the dialogue perks.  You really don't need grenades for anything short of "In Your Heart Shall Burn" quest, and even then you don't need them.  I don't remember the last time I used grenades to be honest.

 

*EDIT*

 

I do admit that the tempered flask (i.e. grenades) is more helpful than the extra dialogue perks when it comes to hard fights.  But it's easy to lose an opportunity to pick up an agent because you forgot to bring a certain companion or have the right perk.  For experienced players, we recognize the mistake the moment we make it.  But for new players or those who maybe missed that agent the last few playthroughs, having all the dialogue perks prevents you from missing opportunities.

[Mike3207]

It'd take a long time to get 150 blood lotus. I got 42 my last trip to the Mire, and a few of those were from my Skyhold Garden. 4-5 visits at least, and there will be a fair amount of fighting to get those. I did get 8 Dawn Lotus that trip, but a lot of fighting and exploration was involved. I did pick up  seeds, which will be just as useful.

[PapaCharlie9]

It'd take a long time to get 150 blood lotus. I got 42 my last trip to the Mire, and a few of those were from my Skyhold Garden. 4-5 visits at least, and there will be a fair amount of fighting to get those. I did get 8 Dawn Lotus that trip, but a lot of fighting and exploration was involved. I did pick up  seeds, which will be just as useful.

 

It is a drag farming them in the Upper Lake, but it only took me maybe 30 minutes real time, broken up by bandit fights, so it wasn't too boring. If you have enough gold, you can also buy most of them from the Crossroads Merchant.

 

Also, you only need 150 if you do all the grenades and all the upgrades, and then have enough left over to actually build the grenades. If you drop one or more, like, only do Bees, you don't need as many.

[PapaCharlie9]

When playing melee, I disagree strongly about chilling array.  I admit it's amazing if you are playing the mage, or if you like to micro-manage your mage.  But if you let the AI do it, they just cast it where they stand and that is normally far from the fight.  By not upgrading it, the mage will place it under the pile of enemies your tank (and/or you) have accumulated freezing them all.  Then you whirlwind and collect the loot.  Same reason Mana Surge is better than Ice Armor.  

 

The only time I give a mage chilling array is if I'm controlling them or it's a Knight Enchanter where I've give spirit blade preferred tactic.  Otherwise it's a waste.  If the enemies run to your mage then your tank isn't doing their job.

 

I get what you are saying when the mage is doing support for a melee IQ, and after Skyhold I change priorities for a support mage's build for those reasons.  But keep in mind we're talking about first-time players here, surviving until Skyhold.

 

In that context, I think Chilling Array + Ice Armor is a good solution for first-time players whose AI controlled support mage keeps getting killed by enemy archers, spellbinders, and assassins. Give them a very strong defense, and if that means the Ice Mine is only protecting the one mage, so be it. The AI does great with Chilling Array for defense. That extra defense keeps the support mage alive, so they can keep spamming Barrier, Energy Barrage, or whatever else I need for support.

 

First-time players don't always have the best tanking/aggro attracting warrior builds -- or any tank at all, so they can't count on the tank keeping all ranged and assassin attacks off of the mage.

[PapaCharlie9]

The wikia suggested the first 4 dialogue option perks(likeHistory Knowledge) and Deft hands. Fine Tools at start, so that's how I spent my first 5 perks. I think I was able to get 5 before Skyhold, but i held off on the main quests a bit for exploration.

 

For a first-time run on Easy or Normal, that makes perfect sense. You don't need to worry about combat difficultly and having all those dialogue perks gives you more content to experience. 

 

Not sure why they recommend Deft Tools, unless that is based on the old days when you had to have Deft Tools in order to complete one of the mosaics, or all of the collections. If you don't care about collectibles and are not a completionist, you don't need it for Easy/Normal.

 

That said, there is some very fine gear, mats and goodies behind Deft Hands doors. The one in the Still Ruins is one of my favorites, so I get Deft Hands pretty much just for that. And the Elfblood Tower in EdL.

[Bigdawg13]

I get what you are saying when the mage is doing support for a melee IQ, and after Skyhold I change priorities for a support mage's build for those reasons.  But keep in mind we're talking about first-time players here, surviving until Skyhold.

 

In that context, I think Chilling Array + Ice Armor is a good solution for first-time players who keep getting killed by enemy archers, spellbinders, and assassins. Give them a very strong defense, and if that means the Ice Mine is only protecting the one mage, so be it. The AI does great with Chilling Array for defense. That extra defense keeps the support mage alive, so they can keep spamming Barrier, Energy Barrage, or whatever else I need for support.

 

First-time players don't always have the best tanking/aggro attracting warrior builds -- or any tank at all, so they can't count on the tank keeping all ranged and assassin attacks off of the mage.

 

That's my point.  Chilling array offers nothing unless the player is an archer (who stands by the mage casting chilling array or is the actual mage).  They have to be ranged.  If they are melee, they want that CC up where they are.  Which is where the mage will cast it unless it's chilling array.  And then it's just a waste.  All it'll do is get the PC-controlled melee character dead so he can swap to the mage and cast spells and survive ... maybe.

 

I think we are going to have to agree to disagree.  I think chilling array's ONLY place is for when the player is control of the mage.  Maybe...maybe if the player is using an archer.  Otherwise, it's a big no.  But that's what's great.  We can agree to disagree here.  Everyone can try it and make up their own minds.

[PapaCharlie9]

I added a clarification to my reply, mixed up the player controlled character with Solas/Dorian/Viv. I meant the AI controlled.

 

But sure, agree to disagree. I have Solas on Chilling Array + Ice Armor and he never takes any health potions. Dorian, who I have all pyro, is constantly drinking health pots, when he's not dying. It's fine with me that the Chilling Array never gets close to where I am (DW rogue) or where IB is tanking. As long as it keeps Solas alive.

[Mike3207]

For a first-time run on Easy or Normal, that makes perfect sense. You don't need to worry about combat difficultly and having all those dialogue perks gives you more content to experience. 

 

Not sure why they recommend Deft Tools, unless that is based on the old days when you had to have Deft Tools in order to complete one of the mosaics, or all of the collections. If you don't care about collectibles and are not a completionist, you don't need it for Easy/Normal.

 

That said, there is some very fine gear, mats and goodies behind Deft Hands doors. The one in the Still Ruins is one of my favorites, so I get Deft Hands pretty much just for that. And the Elfblood Tower in EdL.

The reason mentioned was that some loot items would be unavailable for some quests, especially Blackwall's Memories of the Gray personal quest. I'd admit you only have a certain number of perk points before the final main quest, and the personal quests are unable to be completed after that final main quest, so I can understand having it one of the early perks.

[PapaCharlie9]

The reason mentioned was that some loot items would be unavailable for some quests, especially Blackwall's Memories of the Gray personal quest. I'd admit you only have a certain number of perk points before the final main quest, and the personal quests are unable to be completed after that final main quest, so I can understand having it one of the early perks.

Ah, right. That's why I never finish that quest. Sorry, Blackwall, but I can't be bothered. Though ironically, because I'm planning to do the Fallow Mire way late in my current run, I might actually open that door for once.

That quest isn't essential. You can max Blackwall's approval without, which I've done.

[HannahRose]

It'd take a long time to get 150 blood lotus. I got 42 my last trip to the Mire, and a few of those were from my Skyhold Garden. 4-5 visits at least, and there will be a fair amount of fighting to get those. I did get 8 Dawn Lotus that trip, but a lot of fighting and exploration was involved. I did pick up  seeds, which will be just as useful.

 

I would suggest going to the Forbidden Oasis to farm Elfroot, Blood Lotus, and I think the other one that spawns in the middle of the map is Spindleweed. You can get a fair number of each every time you go there if you have the Optimal Cutting perk (which I would STRONGLY recommend grabbing as soon as you think you might need to start stocking up on potions, grenades, or tonics for future battles). The enemies that respawn there are never terribly strong so you shouldn't have to worry about using up regen potions or grenades as you're farming, unlike some other locations, and the camp you can fast travel to is basically right next to the spawning point for all of those plants, so travel time won't really be an issue either (apart from loading screens).
 

As far as perk orders go, deft hands is definitely worth investing in, but I would wait to get it until you unlock Crestwood post-Skyhold and gain access to the locked door that has an Amulet of Power for the Inquisitor, and the Malika's Guard amulet behind it. Before that it's not really worth the investment, and the points are much better spent on the dialogue perks and Optimal Cutting imo.

[fdrty]

I'm not sure I'd really use potions and grenades unless I was going to cheat and get like 500 elfroot, as it requires so much resource gathering that it becomes tedious.

 

Don't bother crafting armour until you've gotten more decent schematics. Otherwise, you're just spending resources on items that you'll outgrow fairly quickly.

 

Also, don't be afraid to disengage from fights if they're too difficult. You can retreat to camps and fully heal, and anyone who goes down will revive at your side once you're out of range of your enemy. It's better than dying and having to reload. One thing you have to realise is that you aren't meant to 100% an area and move on - there will be enemies who are too tough for you for now, and you'll need to return later. Especially the dragon, and the bears, and the fade rift near the lost druffalo. In fact, I'd say get out of the hinterlands ASAP, and go to Val Royeaux.

 

There are a lot of resources hidden around Haven, and no enemies, so you can get a decent amount of stuff for low risk.

 

And the most important: make sure you have at least one of each class, they have important skills and roles. You might think it'd be a good idea to nuke your enemies with 3 mages, for example, but that really isn't as good of an idea as you think.

 

Don't press B and exit the war table unless you want the game to be a silent wasteland.

[Mike3207]

Optimal cutting-how many herbs you get every time you grab a herb-10% chance every time you have a harvest. between 1-9 herbs, and perk does not function when harvesting rare herbs.

 

I suppose it depends on the definition of a harvest. If it's every time you harvest a plant-it sounds awesome, if it's once a year, much less so. The lack of rare herbs is a drawback, but your Skyhold garden helps there.

 

I wouldn't use crafting every time, but resources are plentiful enough that I have no issue with frequent crafting. Stay away from requisitions though. I wanted to pick up Quartermaster, but any requisitions once you have it are probably unneccesary. I can't resist doing every requisition possible-poor impulse control.

 

That and I should have avoided using any masterworks in smithing until I really needed to use them.

[HannahRose]

Optimal cutting-how many herbs you get every time you grab a herb-10% chance every time you have a harvest. between 1-9 herbs, and perk does not function when harvesting rare herbs.

 

I suppose it depends on the definition of a harvest. If it's every time you harvest a plant-it sounds awesome, if it's once a year, much less so. The lack of rare herbs is a drawback, but your Skyhold garden helps there.

 

That 10% chance of activating honestly seemed a little misleading to me. I used it on multiple Inquisitors and I got the impression that it was much higher. I mean maybe I was just lucky, but either way considering how many times you harvest plants and herbs during a given play through, I'd still say that it was definitely worth grabbing, at least for characters/files that I planned to upgrade/use potions/grenades on. And there's only actually 1 or 2 plants that it doesn't work on. One is crystal something, and I forget the other, but you don't need a whole lot of either one even if you're planning on fully upgrading every single potion, grenade, and tonic.

Edit: Hey cool, 100th post.

[Bigdawg13]

I concur.  I forgot to get it this time around and I'm paying for it later.  Literally...paying for it.  I have been buying herbs in Crestwood.  Optimal Cutting FTW!

[HannahRose]

In case anyone is curious, this is usually the order in which I grab perks for the first few levels, at least for nightmare runs (and with the help of the golden nug to get the schematics early on).

 

1. Optimal Cutting

2. Underworld Knowledge

3. More Healing Potions

4. Tempered Glass Flasks

 

As far as any difficulty lower than nightmare, I never found having too many potions/grenades to be necessary, so you can get the dialogue perks asap if you want, although I'd still recommend getting OC and UK with the first two since UK will help you recruit a few agents that are available pre-Skyhold, and if you get OC early, you'll probably never run out of Elfroot, which means virtually unlimited regen potions, and that's a very good thing. lol

Edit: If it's your first nightmare run, and/or you're not in any rush to get to Skyhold asap, then you may want to leave Underworld Knowledge for level 4/5 after you've gotten MHP and TGF. The agents aren't going anywhere, but more potions will be very helpful early on.

[Mike3207]

So the 10% chance-or more-is every time you harvest a plant. That'd be useful.

 

A shame I'm 60 hours into  my first playthrough, but I'm almost to my 10th perk. Optimal/ More Healing/Tempered Glass get my next 3 perk points.

[PapaCharlie9]

In case anyone is curious, this is usually the order in which I grab perks for the first few levels, at least for nightmare runs (and with the help of the golden nug to get the schematics early on).
 
1. Optimal Cutting
2. Underworld Knowledge
3. More Healing Potions
4. Tempered Glass Flasks
 
As far as any difficulty lower than nightmare, I never found having too many potions/grenades to be necessary, so you can get the dialogue perks asap if you want, although I'd still recommend getting OC and UK with the first two since UK will help you recruit a few agents that are available pre-Skyhold, and if you get OC early, you'll probably never run out of Elfroot, which means virtually unlimited regen potions, and that's a very good thing. lol

Edit: If it's your first nightmare run, and/or you're not in any rush to get to Skyhold asap, then you may want to leave Underworld Knowledge for level 4/5 after you've gotten MHP and TGF. The agents aren't going anywhere, but more potions will be very helpful early on.

Cool! Because Optimal Cutting is in Secrets, it could get you Deft Hands a lot sooner than I normally do. I have to wait until I open Crestwood. Before doing IYHSB, you could have:

1. Optimal Cutting
2. Deft Hands!!!! (+3 agents: Witty Ritts, Tanner, Speaker Anais, all from the Hinterlands)

Which then gets you the Fade-Touched Obsidian (guard on hit) in Redcliffe Village before IYHSB. That's awesome. I never saw the synergy before between Optimal Cutting, grenade + potion upgrades, and Deft Hands.

Now if only there were a similar shortcut for More Healing Potions. If I really want it, I'm stuck doing Vale's Irregulars, which I'd really love to not do. But getting Underworld Knowledge for a PC that isn't a rogue bugs me more, I guess.

[HannahRose]

Now if only there were a similar shortcut for More Healing Potions. If I really want it, I'm stuck doing Vale's Irregulars, which I'd really love to not do. But getting Underworld Knowledge for a PC that isn't a rogue bugs me more, I guess.

 

I dislike it too, but it's one of the few times when I'm willing to break my rules of role playing because the pros outweigh the cons, at least for nightmare runs. I usually try to limit myself when it comes to the other dialogue perks though. I don't think a Qunari mercenary would have much experience dealing with nobles aside from demanding payment, for example. lol