You mentioned it yourself on your own, I'm pretty sure you were already enlightened.
I joined in for Traynor. I said I don't understand this other stuff. You seemed to want to hone on that alone...And basically repeated what I already said. That I don't understand.
But yes, I am enlightened..at least about the pain. I pissed off a girl once and she chunked her shoe at me. How anyone would deliberately want that, I don't know. I cringe 20 years later. 
I said I don't understand this other stuff. You seemed to want to hone on that alone...And basically repeated what I already said. That I don't understand.
You mentioned a particular activity within an s/m discussion context and even specified shoe type. At that point, it's easy to assume you were already aware there are people that are into that. Don't misunderstand me, I don't mean you, but the specific mention in the specific context showed that you're aware of the concept.
You mentioned a particular activity within an s/m discussion context and even specified shoe type. At that point, it's easy to assume you were already aware there are people that are into that. Don't misunderstand me, I don't mean you, but the specific mention in the specific context showed that you're aware of the concept.
I was being poetic about stilettos. I have no experience there, thankfully...
I've been kicked in the nuts by steeltoe boots.. Maybe that's as bad. 
I've been kicked in the nuts by steeltoe boots.. Maybe that's as bad.
I wouldn't know.
I wouldn't know.
Good on you. I deserved that one.. you probably shouldn't do what I did to get it.
Good on you. I deserved that one.. you probably shouldn't do what I did to get it.
I'm pretty sure only physical violence deserves physical response. I don't really express myself that way, so I doubt I'll end up deserving it.
I really do not understand this topic, power dynamics were never about sexuality if anything, it is about gender.
I always thought the bisexuals were those considered as unicorns (like... non-existent) and now I see LESBIANS are the real unicorns!
Damn you, aparently-non-existent lesbians!
Really, Samantha Traynor is lesbian.
The tub scene is just bad writing: they prepared a sexy scene for FemShep who romance Sam. Then, they thought "ey! Guys would like to see Traynor in her underwears in a hot tube" so they put any Shepard with no Traynor romance in that scene. The result is laughable: maybe you are playing a gay MShep who suddlenly looks at Traynor with the most heterosexual gaze of all times. Or maybe you played a heterosexual FemShep that suddlenly feels an attraction for Traynor and questions her sexuality
I've never thought I could find the hot tube more hilarious. Thanks, people
I played ME trilogy a couple of times and I never was interested in Traynor romance, something about her just seem off. I mean I only go for s/s romances but somehow her flirt scenes just seem strange. I guess now I know why.
Thinking about it, I do not like Bioware lesbian romances, Sera being another. Funny enough their bisexual romances are great. The heteros are mostly sad.
I'm pretty sure only physical violence deserves physical response. I don't really express myself that way, so I doubt I'll end up deserving it.
I sold bunk LSD, and got real dealers after me. You might be right what's truly deserving, but it doesn't always work that way. And I learned a lesson at least.
Lets get philosophical for a second though. Not long after that, the guy who kicked my ass got killed at a club/parking lot, simply for protecting his girl from getting harassed. He fought -- commited physical violence. But they beat his head in with a tire iron. I'd say he deserved that less than I deserved my beating.
Lets get philosophical for a second though.
I'd love to, but this isn't the point of this thread.
I'd love to, but this isn't the point of this thread.
Well, now you know some pointless info.
Here I was, really close to not even getting into it. I learned another lesson.
I leave for two days and i'm already not sure what we are discussing.
That kind of makes two of us.... even I'm slightly confused, I think I can figure it out though.
To a limited degree sure but at some point it appears as a denial of desires that could be challenged.
For those having trouble understanding this statement:
Spoiler
Even taking a promiscuous Shepard's history out of the equation male Shepard had still shown an open sexual interest in Traynor. She did promptly shoot it down with a quip about gossip. Fair enough. Then in the Citadel DLC encounter she finds an excuse to get undressed in his bedroom and re-engages on a sexual level in a more aggressive and not so subtle manner. This seems contrary to her words and an invitation. How that scenario could be further explored with different genders and orientations is how it pertains to romances in ME:A.
Yeah I kind of agree Traynor is the most power influenced sort of companion in ME. I mean the others are too... but...
I was thinking Udina, actually, but figured that'd be among the less desirable Bioware characters to bring up, lol.
What's interest about a rival-faction-ally is that there's the opportunity to try for conversion. You try to convince them, and they try to convince you. The fact that they try to change your mind, rather than dismiss you, serves as a sort of proof of interest, and the idea of 'winning them over' serves as an alternative metaphor for the chase/struggle/conquest/catch.
While, personally, I think a good 'evil' love interest should be self-confident enough in themselves and their beliefs to convert for you (the player should, after all, be interested in who they are, not just what they wish they would be), the idea of love/interest being enough to... I wouldn't say 'love redeems,' but maybe 'consider compromise' could be an interesting idea. If you could avoid the idea that they convert to your point of view- possibly by necessitating the player compromise to theirs- you could use a minor change as a significant character evolution.
To pick a Mass Effect context- imagine the love interest is a Ruthless Pragmatic Renegade. They have emotions, but are far from bleeding hearts. Not the sort of compromise or make concessions to terrorists even if they take hostages. A key point in the romance could be whether you accept that or not. Paragon is too good to accept losses, and so takes great risk and risks a potential break-up fight to attempt a hostage rescue. Renegade accepts his/her logic, and the losses, and shows understanding of the viewpoint they bring to the table.
But, later on it's the player who's in dire straights, and it's the Renegade LI who has to make the choice- possibly a deliberate setup by the Ruthless LI's enemies to hurt him/her. Be ruthless, and sacrifice you for the safety of the greater good? Or do what he said he wouldn't, and try for a better ending?
In such a setup, the Ruthless LI backing away from the 'Renegade' option- and trying to save you instead- would be a pretty cool and significant step for them. Character evolution in that they're not as heartless as they seemed (or tried to be). Emotional significance for the player, since the PC caused them to take that step. And then allowing fallout and emotional release afterwards, as the LI and PC reunite and accept the consequences and fallout.
I'm guessing this is showing up here because your LI might be slightly kinky?
Anyway I love super ruthless pragmatic... so far from a bleeding heart and they might even be downright heartless, at least according to the standards of society.
To me though, they might be a strong and emotionally capable person.
I was mostly joking.
But fine. The only way I could see something like that working is if they had a character like Loghain, in the sense that they potentially join the protagonist's side after they've been defeated.
Sounds good to me!
Anyway, dragging this back to sort of the topic, I think I referenced this here somewhere I prefer to be submissive, as far as that context goes, I think most ME companions are kind of dominant inclined, to be honest, so in the case of IB the experience was actually preferable but he also wasn't the kind of dominant personality I like so... as a consequence I ended up skipping that content.
Why do you think she's not lesbians?
Cause like i said, she never clearly states she is, only that male shep isn't her "type"(which is vague).
Cause like i said, she never clearly states she is, only that male shep isn't her "type"(which is vague).
Her creator says she is, so she is. Just because someone doesn't explicitly pronounce things about themselves doesn't mean they aren't those things.
Cause like i said, she never clearly states she is, only that male shep isn't her "type"(which is vague).
MaleShep is not her type because she is only interested in women. If you don't take her word on it 
, maybe it helps Kenneth and Gabriela Daniels (the engineers of ME2) also talk about Traynor: Ken shows interest in her and Gabby teases him saying "you are barking at the wrong tree Kenneth", then Kenneth says "Oh, maybe you should do it then". Also, Traynor only shows interest in Diana Allers, EDI and FemShep, ALL WOMEN.
She's lesbian, Jim.
Not successfully, given that it was confirmed that Samantha has no attraction to men.
Aside from the fact that it was written the same way for all non-romancing Shepards and that this is reading far more into it than actually exists, adding any sort of ambiguity to starting a romance will make people complain endlessly, which is why Dragon Age has been clearly labeling all of its flirt options for two games.
Admittedly, I only played through ME3SP and the Citadel DLC twice and the other playthrough was with a female Shepard in romance with Traynor (Kaiden1-Jacob2-Samantha3). I didn't read any memos about locked in character sexual orientations or follow specific character threads, romance or otherwise. My perspective is formed from my experience of the game without that info.
Whether people complain about ambiguity in Dragon Age isn't my concern. Sure, there is some overlap in players and content creators and some consideration could be taken but the IPs are different. Yet I'm glad you pointed that out as it's something to think about in relation to this.
Regardless, my point is about making an S&M romance options request for ME:A based on my experience of the ME trilogy.
I really do not understand this topic, power dynamics were never about sexuality if anything, it is about gender.
Sometimes I invent things, apparently "Kefkaism" I decided one of the reasons discussions people invested in "power exchange" are often so confusing is because they are lumped in with LGBT, um... just sex in general, relationships, dating, polyamory, gender roles, and I'm like look...
Some people, are just hetero, not interested in sexual intercourse, not really having the gender role discussion (one way or another, who cares what you are or, or want) and yet don't really feel connected to the "normal world" because they are still different in that they like some kind of power play in relationships.
As Lady Artifice pointed out some people are LGBT, whatever, something, and invested in power play and of course that's great I just wanted a topic that's solely about the power element however.
Ahem anyway, I wouldn't mind my PC tied up instead of ye olde soft music in the background underpants sex scene™ that Bioware is known for...
I realize that would be pretty radical perhaps, like what's a sex scene without sex, as I have no wish to push values or absorb resources with peculiar desires, that's just one person's opinion.
But yeah honestly in many ways I just don't even enjoy the sex scenes they already do spend resources on.... conversely I thought IB was laden with excess kind of baggage and lingo to a degree
IMHO.
I don't know why I'm here. The drama, I guess.
I don't understand S/M. I mostly associate pain with fighting and/or other dudes. Not sex.
Consider it in a cerebral way. There are constraints on the realization and actualization of one's self that cannot be easily perceived normally but can be highlighted under stresses. In S&M the stress is controlled, there doesn't have to be physical pain although that is a powerful primal motivator with biochemical reactions but that's a means not the end. It's about bringing someone to their limits not exceeding them and allowing them to awaken themselves to latent potentials. Optimally, the greatest beneficiary in the situation is the submissive. That's oversimplifying and glossing over a lot but hopefully that helps a little.
I really do not understand this topic, power dynamics were never about sexuality if anything, it is about gender.
I played ME trilogy a couple of times and I never was interested in Traynor romance, something about her just seem off. I mean I only go for s/s romances but somehow her flirt scenes just seem strange. I guess now I know why.
Thinking about it, I do not like Bioware lesbian romances, Sera being another. Funny enough their bisexual romances are great. The heteros are mostly sad.
Ironically, my biggest issue was about the dynamics.
Because where I come from, friends hot tub together without it being spicy. Even opposite-gendered friends, and among the older contingent, occasionally nude.
So it was super awkward when, instead of joining her friend, Shepard stands with her back to her and tries to carry out a conversation. I was like "THIS IS TERRIBLE. GET IN THE TUB WITH YOUR BUDDY AND HOT TUB LIKE A NORMAL PERSON INSTEAD OF A CREEPY ROBOT". But heck. Maybe hot tub conventions are different in the space future.
Consider it in a cerebral way. There are constraints on the realization and actualization of one's self that cannot be easily perceived normally but can be highlighted under stresses. In S&M the stress is controlled, there doesn't have to be physical pain although that is a powerful primal motivator with biochemical reactions but that's a means not the end. It's about bringing someone to their limits not exceeding them and allowing them to awaken themselves to latent potentials. Optimally, the greatest beneficiary in the situation is the submissive. That's oversimplifying and glossing over a lot but hopefully that helps a little.
I still can't say I understand, but thanks for explaining. It's not that necessary that I do, I guess. I just hope people take care.
No, I don't. I never said that. I said the opposite of that.
Ok sorry I got what you said wrong, but I don't think I ever said you couldn't be LGBT and like S&M or something, I just said, some people aren't LGBT.. but the power interest remains.
So I think we engaged in some weird diagonal because I wasn't sure why you were bringing that point up in the first place.
My comment wasn't designed to exclude LGBT or something it was designed to say this is a thread for the power element, since there's a thread that focuses explicitly on Bisexual/gay matters.
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