112 réponses à ce sujet

[DreamerM]

Your PC won't even know he's there until you finally see his hand behind some of the strange events going on.

 

See, that would be a repeat with what they did with the Morrigan/Flemmeth thing, where they are always "behind the scenes" doing cryptic things that you don't understand. Then Flemmeth dies (we think) without us ever learning what she was up to.  And Morrigan, who was the other prime secret-agenda-haver, turned out to be wrong about absolutely everything, from her mother's intentions, to the Well of Sorrows to .... well, everything. So I wouldn't trust her to have any clue what is going on.

If Solas, who at the very least has a concrete motivation, disappears behind the curtain as well, then.... I don't even know what. The single most frustrating thing about ME3 is it refused, even at the end, to answer any real questions about the Reapers. I'm tired of that. I want to know what's going on.

[Gervaise]

Here, here, to that!   In a way that is what happened in ME2, the Reapers were still a threat but they were working through puppets, so you were working one step removed from the main enemy.   I loved the game and the ending but it set things up for the final showdown in ME3, plus a proper explanation of why they were acting in the way they did, although in ME1 Sovereign did say that they were above giving explanations.  In the end the justification was very shallow, particularly if you had in fact succeeded in uniting the entire galaxy against them because it actually refuted their main assertion as to why it was necessary.    

 

The trouble about going off to Tevinter if it isn't going to feature directly in the Solas plot, is that you are always going to have in the back of your mind, when are we getting back to dealing with Solas?   Of course your PC may well not know the imperative of this, so role playing them, they are not going to have the same sense of urgency, unless of course someone tells them.    I'm hoping that something about Tevinter and its history is going to be very important in the grand scheme of things.   

 

I certainly want to know a bit more of why Solas has acted in the way he has.     I was annoyed at being asked to make a decision about how the Inquisitor responded to his reveal of his plans, when I had so little information.    On the face of it I needed to stop him.    How was I going to "prove him wrong" when I had no way of knowing what exactly he required by virtue of proof?    It would have been helpful if he had answered the question "Why does this world have to die?"    The fact that he didn't and even said that would help me too much, seems to suggest that it is the crux of the whole problem.     So it will be intensely annoying to still be left hanging about it at the end of the next game.   

 

You will recall that in ME2 there was a suggestion at something peculiar going in in a certain star system which seemed to suggest a sort of energy drain.   This was never elaborated on and some people have suggested that was going to be the original reason for the Reapers that was later altered to the one given.   Whether that was true or not, I hope that the plot remains true to the original vision for DAI because hopefully it will have some sort of internal consistency.    Things do tend to fall apart and not make sense if you change course through making it up as you go along, rather than having an overarching plot which you are working within and has always had its internal logic from day 1.

[d1ta]

Why didn't Solas kill the Inquisitor..?

Because of the fan rage
Even Fen Harel has to fear at least something

[Fiskrens]

Because of the fan rage
Even Fen Harel has to fear at least something

More true than neither me nor Bioware would like to admit, I think

[Asha'bellanar]

.... kill the Inquisitor at the end of Trespasser?

The biggest reason is that Solas literally means Pride. Like Corypheus, Solas believes himself to be invincible, and doesn't see the Inquisitor as a threat. He has an army of elves, he knows all about you and your advisors and he thinks that while you are very clever (so he won't tell you too much about his plans), you won't be able to stop him because he's got the upper hand.

 

I'm sure he's wrong, by the way. As the saying goes, pride goes before a fall. 

[DreamerM]

The biggest reason is that Solas literally means Pride. Like Corypheus, Solas believes himself to be invincible, and doesn't see the Inquisitor as a threat.

I know it means Pride, but that had BETTER not mean he now believes he's invincible. He knows he's not: power wise or planning wise. His incompetence opened a rift in the sky that almost ended the world (prematurely) and there wasn't a thing he could do to stop it. He's been made humble. He shouldn't forget that feeling any time soon.

Pride, I HOPE, refers to his belief that his world, the elf world, is worth any sacrifice to restore. Kill the humans and dwarves, destroy all kingdoms, burn the planet, it's all worth it to put the Elves back in the place they should have never left. He's an elf-supremacist...not an idiot.

I hope.

[Asha'bellanar]

I know it means Pride, but that had BETTER not mean he now believes he's invincible. He knows he's not: power wise or planning wise. His incompetence opened a rift in the sky that almost ended the world (prematurely) and there wasn't a thing he could do to stop it. He's been made humble. He shouldn't forget that feeling any time soon.

Pride, I HOPE, refers to his belief that his world, the elf world, is worth any sacrifice to restore. Kill the humans and dwarves, destroy all kingdoms, burn the planet, it's all worth it to put the Elves back in the place they should have never left. He's an elf-supremacist...not an idiot.

I hope.

You hope.

[Ghost Gal]

"Pride" doesn't mean Solas sees himself as invincible, he sees himself as right.

[ModernAcademic]

See, that would be a repeat with what they did with the Morrigan/Flemmeth thing, where they are always "behind the scenes" doing cryptic things that you don't understand. Then Flemmeth dies (we think) without us ever learning what she was up to.  And Morrigan, who was the other prime secret-agenda-haver, turned out to be wrong about absolutely everything, from her mother's intentions, to the Well of Sorrows to .... well, everything. So I wouldn't trust her to have any clue what is going on.

If Solas, who at the very least has a concrete motivation, disappears behind the curtain as well, then.... I don't even know what. The single most frustrating thing about ME3 is it refused, even at the end, to answer any real questions about the Reapers. I'm tired of that. I want to know what's going on.

 

True, it would be similar to the Flemeth/Morrigan theme. I hope BW has a better plot in store for him.

 

 

Well, about the Reapers, you can learn everything about their origin in the Leviathan DLC for ME 3. It also explains how the Catalyst was an AI - not a Reaper - created by an ancient telepathic race (the Leviathans) that was first known as the Intelligence to them. 

 

There's also a specific hidden dialogue with Legion that confirms the true nature of the Reapers. They're not exactly synthetics as we've believed this whole time:

 

https://www.youtube....h?v=CqtAHNQT3-w

 

 

Edit: corrected the information about the Leviathans and the Intelligence.

[animedreamer]

Well in my case, he loved my Lavellan...   

17 post before this came up, wow... Thank you *high five* Can I get some?

[Asha'bellanar]

"Pride" doesn't mean Solas sees himself as invincible, he sees himself as right.

Pride can take a lot of forms, but there IS a reason for the very common saying: pride goeth before a fall. Pride tends to blind you, metahphorically, which is what I was trying to say.

 

But I was also saying it a bit tongue in cheek. Not everything has to be deadly serious all the time, does it? (It's why I used a whole lot of emoticons in my previous post, after all.)

 

Argue all you like about the nature of pride, but I think that's a little more philosophical than this forum is up to.

[In Exile]

Oh Andraste's sacred butt-cheeks, I hope that's not it. That one is the crown jewel of all "Stupid Villain Mistakes." In that case it's not the hero defeating the villain, it's the villain defeating THEMSELVES by refusing to engage in even the most basic forms of self-preservation. The Inquisitor is an emotional, if not a physical, threat, and Solas knows it. Leaving them alive and aware of your plan oh gee I wonder what's going to happen?? Ugh. No. Just...

Please Bioware, please, for the lovva the Maker, PLEASE be better then this.

It's factually true you're not a threat. But it's also about redemption. The point of not killing the Inquisitor is to show that Solas isn't as bound to his plan of action as he says with his rhetoric.

[Gervaise]

The whole fact that in ME3 you had to get the DLC to get the full background on the Intelligence is what is so annoying and even then all it does is explain why it was created in the first place, not why you should believe its faulty logic all this time later.   Also, great, if you choose a certain dialogue back in ME2 with Legion, you also discover a bit more.    Surely if something is vital to explain the plot and particularly if you are being asked to make a major decision that will affect the entire galaxy, the information should be available in the main game no matter what dialogue you choose?

 

This is the problem with Solas.    He says "I suspect you have questions" but you are never allowed to ask the questions you would wish.    As the dialogue with a hostile Inquisitor confirms, your whole rambling discussion with him as a friendly Inquisitor can simply be summed up as: "I created the Veil to shut away the false gods; in so doing I destroyed my world and crippled my people; now I'm back intending to reverse my previous decision; you are all going to die".  Then he goes off and you are meant to accept that because Solas knows who you are, you are just going to take a back seat in trying to stop him.   Why then, were you even asked to make that decision about how you parted with him at all?   Will those final words really influence the outcome in the next game if you are playing with a new PC?  Are you going to be denied certain outcomes because you chose one dialogue over another?   Even if you come back as the Inquisitor, is it not possible that in the future you might change your mind on the basis of new information?   However, why should a new PC even be bound by those words?

[fhs33721]

He doesn't kill the Inquisitor because he is sabotaging himself. On some level Solas wants to be stopped. He knows that his plans are wrong and evil but he still can't (or doesn't want) to stop them. So he gives someone else a (very small) chance to stop him instead. This seems to be pretty clear from all the dialogue during Tresspasser.

[animedreamer]

I love how people keep claiming his plans are evil, and wrong. Either because they took his words to literally, or because he wants to change social structure that has seen his people reduced to second class citizens in human controlled lands, or wandering vagabonds forced to travel their rightful lands, pretending to be something they can't possibly remember, let alone understand. I guess every revolution is wrong and evil, despite the very people criticizing it being the end results of such radical thinking and the strong men and women who helped bring it about.

[In Exile]

I love how people keep claiming his plans are evil, and wrong. Either because they took his words to literally, or because he wants to change social structure that has seen his people reduced to second class citizens in human controlled lands, or wandering vagabonds forced to travel their rightful lands, pretending to be something they can't possibly remember, let alone understand. I guess every revolution is wrong and evil, despite the very people criticizing it being the end results of such radical thinking and the strong men and women who helped bring it about.

 

He outright tells you he will kill people on a scale untold to re-create his racial utopia. That's... well, let's just say the people who tend to have this idea IRL have a lot of bad press. He's not even really standing up for oppressed elves - the ones still alive, anyway. Even Solas thinks what he plans to do is so monstrous he can't e.g. have Cole follow him. 

 

We're not talking about a social revolution here. And as Solas explains to you, modern elves aren't his people in that way. 

[Akiza]

He doesn't kill the Inquisitor because he is sabotaging himself. On some level Solas wants to be stopped. He knows that his plans are wrong and evil but he still can't (or doesn't want) to stop them. So he gives someone else a (very small) chance to stop him instead. This seems to be pretty clear from all the dialogue during Tresspasser.

Possible every other reasons sound quite flat compared to this one.

[ModernAcademic]

I love how people keep claiming his plans are evil, and wrong. Either because they took his words to literally, or because he wants to change social structure that has seen his people reduced to second class citizens in human controlled lands, or wandering vagabonds forced to travel their rightful lands, pretending to be something they can't possibly remember, let alone understand. I guess every revolution is wrong and evil, despite the very people criticizing it being the end results of such radical thinking and the strong men and women who helped bring it about.

 

So you're saying it's okay for Solas to cause the destruction of countless civilizations in Thedas by tearing down the Veil because the elven race is being oppresed and thus needs more breathing room? 

[Asha'bellanar]

I love how people keep claiming his plans are evil, and wrong. Either because they took his words to literally, or because he wants to change social structure that has seen his people reduced to second class citizens in human controlled lands, or wandering vagabonds forced to travel their rightful lands, pretending to be something they can't possibly remember, let alone understand. I guess every revolution is wrong and evil, despite the very people criticizing it being the end results of such radical thinking and the strong men and women who helped bring it about.

Oh, my Lavellan (who romanced Solas and never got over him) would have gladly gone with him and helped him to carry out whatever he had in mind. By the end, she was entirely fed up with human politics and humans, in general. She wasn't entirely happy with him, after all, he misled her and told half-truths and kept things from her, but she still loved him and she was rather fascinated with the glimpses of the ancient elves and their world (Evanuris notwitstanding). It was kind of disappointing that she couldn't actually say "Screw this world, I'm coming with you! I'm an elf, and I want to help!" Best she could do was choose to try to save him from himself. 

 

Not all of my Inquisitors have felt that way, of course (and I'm pretty sure the destruction of almost everything to try to bring back something long dead and gone is a bad idea), but, yeah. It does depend very much on your point of view (and my Lavellan may have been a bit brainwashed).

 

AND... what looks like death to a caterpillar is a new life for a butterfly. Change can, indeed, be destructive, but it's not always bad. *shrug*

 

I'm not necessarily arguing that Solas' plans are good or right or correct, mind you, but there is an argument to be made there...

[animedreamer]

He outright tells you he will kill people on a scale untold to re-create his racial utopia. That's... well, let's just say the people who tend to have this idea IRL have a lot of bad press. He's not even really standing up for oppressed elves - the ones still alive, anyway. Even Solas thinks what he plans to do is so monstrous he can't e.g. have Cole follow him. 

 

We're not talking about a social revolution here. And as Solas explains to you, modern elves aren't his people in that way. 

He told your inquisitor that, he didn't say anything like that to mine. He basically said, he would burn away this world to restore his, that was his approximate quote. He said people would die in the aftermath of it because they wouldn't be able to adjust to what was to come, he never said he'd go kill millions of people. He implied people would die because the shock of living in a world were spirit roamed free would likely cause them to get killed.

[animedreamer]

So you're saying it's okay for Solas to cause the destruction of countless civilizations in Thedas by tearing down the Veil because the elven race is being oppresed and thus needs more breathing room? 

No more okay than any people being oppressed or are driven to extinction. Is the slaughter of people in general okay? No but if one has the means to do it, and they feel it is the right thing to do history will be the ultimate judge of that, and we all know who controls history, (It's the victor).. so ask me again after 1000 years of Thedas history has past should Solas succeed, im sure the people that live in that time human, dwarf, elf, and qunari will likely not care, or just be butt hurt that their previous empires have fallen.

[DragonAgeLegend]

The Inquisitor is a linchpin. He says outright that they're death will cause undue chaos. I suspect Solas' plans actually require more stability in the world, not less, though I can't even begin to speculate why. 

Piggy backing off of his statement; Solas most likely needs time to acquire enough power to be able to restore the world to what it once was. Killing the Inquisitor would have created more chaos as he said, making his overall plans much harder to achieve.

[fhs33721]

He told your inquisitor that, he didn't say anything like that to mine. He basically said, he would burn away this world to restore his, that was his approximate quote. He said people would die in the aftermath of it because they wouldn't be able to adjust to what was to come, he never said he'd go kill millions of people. He implied people would die because the shock of living in a world were spirit roamed free would likely cause them to get killed.

He literally says "The return of my people will mean the end of your people". With his people specifically being ancient elves and no one else, since he doesn't consider modern city elves to be his people as evidenced by his talk after Halamshiral and actively despises the dalish culture. Sounds like planning to kill millions all right.

[Captain Wiseass]

"Pride" doesn't mean Solas sees himself as invincible, he sees himself as right.

The former tends to follow the latter. "Of course I'm going to win. I'm right."

[Hellion Rex]

I love how people keep claiming his plans are evil, and wrong. Either because they took his words to literally, or because he wants to change social structure that has seen his people reduced to second class citizens in human controlled lands, or wandering vagabonds forced to travel their rightful lands, pretending to be something they can't possibly remember, let alone understand. I guess every revolution is wrong and evil, despite the very people criticizing it being the end results of such radical thinking and the strong men and women who helped bring it about.

Yes, his plans are evil and wrong, end of sentence. His plan to bring down the Veil will kill many people. It's not a revolution as you so wrongly dub it, but pure genocide.