It's quite obvious Solas is a bloodthirsty maniac who wants to kill the whole world by himself for good reasons rather than have the whole world kill each other for silly reasons.
It makes so much sense. Am I really the only one who's figured it out?
He literally says "The return of my people will mean the end of your people". With his people specifically being ancient elves and no one else, since he doesn't consider modern city elves to be his people as evidenced by his talk after Halamshiral and actively despises the dalish culture. Sounds like planning to kill millions all right.
Again making all kinds of assumptions here, "End of your people" to whom, it's a generic line used on all inquisitors or matter their origin, which is all the credence I need to know it's not a literal thing, it's a metaphoric line meant to do exactly what it has in the masses like yourself inspire fear if not hate. The return of his people, is more than likely a shout out to the fact that his people will not be so easily cowed of or controlled by the existing masses. Also no he makes credence to the fact that he is just unhappy with what has happened to the Elves, he is pride therefore of course he distinguishes what he calls Elves different from what they have been reduced to in modern Thedas, but several times he's come to the defense of modern Thedas elves and seeks to show them the right way.
1.) He mentions in argument with a Dalish inquisitor that he went to the Dalish first but they refuted him and called him flat-ear and thought they knew better.
2.) He tries to awaken Sera several times to the possibility that her being a Elf is more than she realizes, and the potential there in.
3.) With a romanced Lavellan he may have misjudged the Dalish, and even compares Lavellan herself as being akin to a "Wisdom he has seen in a very long time." A obvious comparison to the best of the Ancient Elves maybe even on a level similar to Mythal as again Solas from what we know of his interactions with the ancient Elves only held Mythal in high esteem, calling her the best of them and vaunting her intelligence, compassion and wisdom.
4.) Abelas like Solas also made the distinction that the Elves of present Thedas, "Aren't his people." pointing out the Dalish pretend at something they know nothing about. Why would he need to point especially to the Dalish if there wasn't any relation to them being Elves at all? He could have easily "My people are all dead, we died in X Y Z." He did that because Elves of modern Thedas have Forgotten what they were, and only pretend to know what they lost, this was made clear several times if I recall, but the best tell was when Abelas came to Solas and sensed he was more akin to what he knew as the ancient Elves but just by looking at Abelas we know he is one sworn to Mythal by Solas own admission he is a slave, something akin to at best being beneath Solas and those who walked on even footing with Evanuris. The only real distinction however between what the Ancient Elves and their thralls in comparison to modern Thedasian Elves is the magic and knowledge of magic/lore the two have, I say this because every time Solas or another ancient Elf talk about the comparison it always seems to fall back to knowledge or power. They never make a distinction biologically, (because obviously they are one and the same except they have become lesser.).
A lot of people like to say Solas is telling half truths, and that might even be a valid counter argument in some cases, but I don't think it applies when it comes to his association with who is and who isn't a elf. Pride is his given name for a reason, for better or worse, there are numerous real world examples of the very same thing being done/said all based on the idea of pride/vanity. Few people who see themselves as better ever get the chance to meet someone who they thought was a lesser and thus are then humbled by such an individual, but I think a romanced Solas is an exception.
5.) Solas uses "our people" several times with a elf inquisitor when directly interacting with her/him, first notable time is on the way to Skyhold, when he reveals the orb to be a artifact of "Our People." He makes this distinction again when a Dalish Mage becomes an Knight Enchanter and fills you in on the history of where the Knight Enchanter likely got its start, point out it was "our ancestors."
I could point out the last scene with Flemeth and Solas, but I get the feeling it's a dead horse and no matter how true it may seem to the cause ot show he has errored in his judgement of Thedasian Elves, people who want him to be the villain would find some way to refute it. So I'll skip it and save myself the time arguing it.
Lastly its just obvious, it's no different if you woke up tomorrow and whatever privilege you consciously or unconsciously have was stripped from you and you were told your kind are weak, barely worth soil beneath your feet, told you will never elevate to any position higher than a paid serf, or laborer. Of course you like Solas would be outraged but more so you'd be probably heart broken when you looked around and saw all of your kin and alike actually accepting this as simple fact. So is it any wonder that he'd distant himself from such association, seems pretty self evident to me. Also without context you paint a Solas that isn't the same one everyone else got, as again some people played the game different and thus had different interactions with him. Again with a romanced Dalish inquisitor and I would bet a male befriended Dalish inquisitor aren't nearly as inflammatory, and again I've already said he knows that people are going to do die, but it's not directly because of the veil being torn down but because they want be able to adjust to the world being reset.
It's quite obvious Solas is a bloodthirsty maniac who wants to kill the whole world by himself for good reasons rather than have the whole world kill each other for silly reasons.
It makes so much sense. Am I really the only one who's figured it out?
I know you're being sarcastic, but I still see people agreeing with this sentiment despite having played the game and knowing that he's obviously doing it for a particular sect of people. Which is still no more wrong than the Chantry starting an exalted march against the Dales with the most asinine reasons ever contrived.
I know you're being sarcastic, but I still see people agreeing with this sentiment despite having played the game and knowing that he's obviously doing it for a particular sect of people. Which is still no more wrong than the Chantry starting an exalted march against the Dales with the most asinine reasons ever contrived.
Let's see:
Exalted march: Counterattack against an invading nation, that went waay too far and turned into the completely unjustified subjugation of an entire species. Pretty bad no argument there.
Solas plan: Tearing down the veil, most likely destroying human, Qunari, and Dwarf civilization in the process for the sake of restoring elven supremacy (which by his own account wasn't exactly much better a social system than what is in place now. Fate of modern elves in this plan is ambigious at best with current information). Most likely millions of people will die. Not to mention that a lot of downright nasty creatures, which include but are not limited to your worst nightmares made flesh, are now able to freely terrorize every mortal. Also the only other example of a world where the veil was destroyed was the bad future witnessed in Redcliffe which was a downright apocalyptic wasteland where demons reigned surpreme. And Solas insisting that that future must have been a mere illusion of the fade to the point where he disagrees if you say it wasn't doesn't spell anything good for his own plans. In conclusion this sounds much worse than the exalted march against the Dales.
Let's see:
Exalted march: Counterattack against an invading nation, that went waay too far and turned into the completely unjustified subjugation of an entire species. Pretty bad no argument there.
Solas plan: Tearing down the veil, most likely destroying human, Qunari, and Dwarf civilization in the process for the sake of restoring elven supremacy (which by his own account wasn't exactly much better a social system than what is in place now. Fate of modern elves in this plan is ambigious at best with current information). Most likely millions of people will die. Not to mention that a lot of downright nasty creatures, which include but are not limited to your worst nightmares made flesh, are now able to freely terrorize every mortal. Also the only other example of a world where the veil was destroyed was the bad future witnessed in Redcliffe which was a downright apocalyptic wasteland where demons reigned surpreme. And Solas insisting that that future must have been a mere illusion of the fade to the point where he disagrees if you say it wasn't doesn't spell anything good for his own plans. In conclusion this sounds much worse than the exalted march against the Dales.
Not to mention that his "plan" against his fellow god kings and queens (those fellas he had to banish to the fade, because he couldn't defeat them otherwise and who will be unleashed again without the veil) boils down to "Uhhh.... I will figure something out.".
Seeing how awesome his first plan went (Giving an ancient magister who stormed the Golden City your orb, Solas? Genius!) I don't have much faith in Fen'Harel, god of "hindsight is 20/20".
The ambiguity over the fate of the modern races only seems to exist if you are on friendly terms with him. Even then it seems to me it is clear enough. "The return of my people will mean the end of yours", "if they must die, let them die in comfort", and "enjoy what time you have left". Seems pretty clear to me.
However, a hostile Inquisitor says: "You'd murder countless people?" and then why bother stopping the Qunari if they are going to die anyway. To which he replies there is "no benefit in allowing harm to come to innocents before it is necessary."
So even if it isn't a Thedas wide species annihilation, there sure seems like there is going to be a lot of death; he admits as much. At present, the best I can hope for would be what we saw in the 2013 trailer, with the sky tearing open and a rain of fire (and demons), plus a fearsome looking dragon offering a challenge that could well be an angry Evanuris.
I'm still a bit puzzled by his assertion that he had to take the action he did or the Evanuris would have "destroyed the whole world". So if he hadn't raised the Veil, the world of the elves would have ended anyway. If he removes the Veil and restores their world, how is he going to prevent that happening? It just seems that instead of the rather large risk of removing the Veil and hoping he can deal with seven angry Evanuris, it would be better to find a solution in the current world, like using the eluvians to find the elves a new, safe, homeland and then helping them set up a new, unique form of government, unlike anything else in modern Thedas..
Of course if he is only concerned about the fate of the ancient elves who are slowly dying off and the remaining structures like the Crossroads, that are equally decaying, then that would account for why he thinks the risks are worth taking. Which is why I still feel that his planned course of action is not with the intention of helping the modern elves.
No more okay than any people being oppressed or are driven to extinction. Is the slaughter of people in general okay? No but if one has the means to do it, and they feel it is the right thing to do history will be the ultimate judge of that, and we all know who controls history, (It's the victor).. so ask me again after 1000 years of Thedas history has past should Solas succeed, im sure the people that live in that time human, dwarf, elf, and qunari will likely not care, or just be butt hurt that their previous empires have fallen.
What slaughter? Elves are not being slaughtered. The Dalish slaughter anyone who comes into their territory and are slaughtered in return when they trespass into other people's lands.
As for the city elves, they are segregated, like any minority in Thedas, such as the surface dwarves and the Vashoth. The poor and the helpless are segregated anywhere.
No one is driving elves to their extinction. They are the ones who had an empire and lost it because of Solas' actions. If anyone is to blame for what happened to them, it's Solas. Not humanity.
You think Arlathan was a great empire, with just and wise leaders?They enslaved their own kin. Some of them even performed blood rituals by sacrificing their slaves, like Falon Din, way before the Magisters of Tevinter did.
This is worse than what the dwarves do to the casteless in Orzammar. At least they have one thing elves never had in the past: freedom. A dwarf can go to the surface and try his luck as a merchant. An elf enslaved by another elf from an upper cast was forever bound to his master and could be sacrificed at any moment for one of their blood rites.
From where I'm standing, elves were neither great, nor wise. That is Solas's view of his own people, not an absolute fact. They misused magic, created an oppresive society and mistreated their own kind. How can a people whose traditions were incorporated many years later by Tevinter and spawned an empire based on slavery, blood sacrifices and the abuse of magic be a good thing?
That's what Solas risks bringing back should he proceed with his plan of restoring elven glory.
There's a lot we don't know about his plan. Personally, I am... really trying not to let that worry me.
Again, I'd hate for this to be a repeat of Flemmeth/Morrigan, where not only are their plans unknown, but their plans are so many layers of unknown that they might as well be playing Jenga or doing a tango with an empty pizza box and I'd react with the same, "well, I don't get it but I guess it's important" sort of dull acceptance.
Here's hoping we learn more about how Solas's plan is actually going to work. Both how he raised the veil and how he plans on bringing it down again, how was he planning on dealing with the evil Gods, what does this have to do with the Titans, and if the elven artifacts you activated are at all relevant, and if what you said is going to matter, and if you brought him to the Fade, is THAT going to matter, and if you brought him to the Temple of Mythal, is THAT going to matter, and.... ugh....
Yeah. I must admit I'm not terribly hopeful.
I'm under the impression some people think the elves from Thedas are like the elves from Middle Earth. Beautiful, immortal, wise.
They're not the same thing. One kind of elf built a great civilization based on a spiritual and philosophical set of principles. The other built an empire mired by inequality, slavery and oppression.
Please don't confuse one with the other.
I'm under the impression some people think the elves from Thedas are like the elves from Middle Earth. Beautiful, immortal, wise.
They're not the same thing. One kind of elf built a great civilization based on a spiritual and philosophical set of principles. The other built an empire mired by inequality, slavery and oppression.
Please don't confuse one with the other.
Indeed.
This: http://tvtropes.org/...n/ScrewYouElves
As opposed to this: http://tvtropes.org/...tArgueWithElves
To be honest I've never seen the Dalish as nature hippies but if they weren't meant to be seen as somehow closer to nature, why did the designers give them bare feet in DA2 and DAI? I gather DG was against this and you can see why. In the southern part of Thedas that we operate in, it is extremely cold, wet and snowy at times. Bare feet are really impractical in such situations. Show me a real life primitive nomadic group who live in the colder parts of the world who voluntarily go without boots or shoes. You won't because their feet would freeze.
So the design of elves leads you to believe that either they have insensitive feet than feel absolutely nothing (unlikely) or in some way they are trying to keep a closer connection with the natural world through their feet. I always found it comical in DA2 that Merril and Fenris kept examining their feet as though they had trod in something unpleasant, which given they are wandering around much of the time in Kirkwall was probably the case.
The idea that the elves of Thedas were once beautiful, immortal and wise was the belief of the Dalish themselves and even to some extent the city elves. The big tree is after all meant to be a way of remembering ancient Arlathan. Yet all the trees we see that are associated with the ancient elves are for the most part artificial stylised ones, except in the Well of Sorrows, yet Mythal is meant to be all about creating cities such as we see in the memories in the Library. I wish in a way we could get it clear just what exactly the ancient world of the elves was like. Was it all magical crystal towers and walkways, as see in the Library or was there a mixture of both the magical and the natural?
If the world of the ancient elves really had been the utopia that the Dalish imagined it to be, then their efforts to recover it would be laudable. This is the sad part about their culture. They are not trying to recover an empire built on slavery, inequality and oppression because that is not what they believed it to be. They thought it a wonderful realm built on equality, magic and community. Having shattered this illusion, what are they left with? Apparently they have always been enslaved and oppressed, first by their own, then by humans. The Dalish ideal of the world they wanted to live in gave them hope that it might be possible to achieve. Now they have nothing. Look around at the alternatives in the various governments of Thedas. Do any of these offer them a better vision than the one they have always held?
People keep saying that the Dalish should let go of the past and work for a better future. I agree with that but you have to have something to aim at. Simply throwing in the towel and allowing themselves to be absorbed and oppressed under the current systems is no future at all. That is simply perpetuating the past. I don't ask for a beautiful, immortal race of perfect beings; I just want the elves of Thedas to be given hope for something better that doesn't involve supporting the wholesale destruction of the current world. That is what they are consistently denied.
“I would have entered the fade, using the mark you now bear. Then I would have torn down the veil. As this world burned in the raw chaos, I would of restored the world of my time… the world of the elves” - Solas, on his original plan
“I will save the elven people, even if it means this world must die” - Solas, on what he intends to do now
“Because I am not a monster. If they must die, I would rather they die in comfort.” - Solas, on why he disrupted the Qunari plot
If all Solas meant was 'there will be some death as the result of social revolution/war/unavoidable veil come down side effects but the vast majority of the population of Thedas will live' then he needs to learn how to use less dramatic language, particularly when speaking to someone whose job is stopping world ending/genocidal threats.
Not saying it isn't true, just that he's being an over dramatic dummy* in that conversation if so.
*Edit: didn't think that was severe enough to be censured but ok
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