164 respuestas en este tema

[SolNebula]

Weapons heating system all the way just ditch the damn clips.....I just don't want to see random clips scattered around uncharted planets.....this would be an immersion destroyer elevated to maximum potential.

[Spectr61]

The ME3MP weapons than did not require reloading, e.g the PPR, CSMG, Lancer seemed to work fairly well.

No ammo resupply needed, no reloading, just a limited amount of firing time, with a time based recharge.

Something along these lines would obviate the need to have something ridiculous happen - like finding an ammo clip that fits one of our weapons laying around some planet in the Andromeda Galaxy.

[Xerxes52]

The ME3MP weapons than did not require reloading, e.g the PPR, CSMG, Lancer seemed to work fairly well.

No ammo resupply needed, no reloading, just a limited amount of firing time, with a time based recharge.

Something along these lines would obviate the need to have something ridiculous happen - like finding an ammo clip that fits one of our weapons laying around some planet in the Andromeda Galaxy.

Indeed. From a lore perspective, you'd want a weapon to use in hostile, uncharted environments where supply lines are a luxury, not a guarantee, and the natives are most likely using completely foreign weapons technology.

[Laughing_Man]

Right, and most shooters have limited ammo, which is why reload time was less than what you would get in ME1 cooling from max heat.  ME1 had ~ five seconds worth of overheat duration as an attempt to balance unlimited ammo.

 

This is true only in the sense that you have a finite number of ammo at the bottom of your screen, but in most shooters you have enough ammo and weapons scattered around or dropped by enemies to never really need to worry about your ammo count.

 

Here is a crazy thought, maybe they should have capped the ammo according to lore limits, meaning every thousand shots or so you will have to switch ammo block.

 

Or, change the size of ammo from grain sized projectiles to something bigger (makes more sense anyway due to friction problems), and so you can have overheat plus an ammo limit at whichever point you choose. It can be 500 shots, 400, or maybe even 200 or 50, depends on the weapon and the size of the projectile.

 

It always amazes me how little effort it takes to think up possible solutions that take the lore into account, and how Bioware didn't even bother doing that.

[In Exile]

I think we have way too much hand-writing over a hokey concept invented in the first place to try and justify why the game isn't originally a pure shooter. 

[Laughing_Man]

I think we have way too much hand-writing over a hokey concept invented in the first place to try and justify why the game isn't originally a pure shooter. 

 

That has very little to do with ammo count or overheat mechanics.

 

Battlefront has fun overheat mechanics. Other shooters have unlimited ammo or practically unlimited ammo.

 

ME isn't a "pure shooter" more because it has classes and character abilities and other RPG elements.

[In Exile]

That has very little to do with ammo count or overheat mechanics.

 

Battlefront has fun overheat mechanics. Other shooters have unlimited ammo or practically unlimited ammo.

 

ME isn't a "pure shooter" more because it has classes and character abilities and other RPG elements.

 

No, ME1 has overheating because they didn't want to have re-loading so they could justify their hokey shooter-RPG mechanic. Bioware often invents lore, and then sit on their heads trying to write their way out of that lore, to justify a gameplay feature. I haven't played shooters in a while, so maybe there are modern games that have handled unlimited ammo well. I can't say. To my mind, a pure shooter is something like counterstrike. 

[Laughing_Man]

No, ME1 has overheating because they didn't want to have re-loading so they could justify their hokey shooter-RPG mechanic.

 

Source?

 

Anyway, ME:A isn't counter strike thankfully, and I don't think the solution I described two posts above includes anyone sitting on their head.

You just have to give a frag about established lore.

[In Exile]

Source?

 

Anyway, ME:A isn't counter strike thankfully, and I don't think the solution I described two posts above includes anyone sitting on their head.

You just have to give a frag about established lore.

 

Dev post from the old, old Bio forums (back when devs interacted with us and the forums weren't a cesspool, i.e., pre-ME1/DA:O release). I'll see if I can find an archive (obviously it's put in less flippant of a way). 

 

Re: the lore point, I'm not a weapons guy, in the sense I basically know jack all about weapons, but I don't see why you would want larger bullets? As in, what could possibly be the benefit apart from having a smaller clip with no increased benefit in lethality? 

[Laughing_Man]

Re: the lore point, I'm not a weapons guy, in the sense I basically know jack all about weapons, but I don't see why you would want larger bullets? As in, what could possibly be the benefit apart from having a smaller clip with no increased benefit in lethality? 

 

Larger bullets can account for the increased killing power of weapons from ME1 to ME2, but even disregarding stopping power, penetration,

and sheer kinetic energy - which depend on the power of the railgun as well, grain sized bullets might simply burn up like meteorites when you shoot them at such high velocities inside an atmosphere.

 

In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if when railguns actually become something a soldier can carry in real life, they would still use magazines with regular size ammo. It might even allow you to replace the powder charge with a small exploding warhead, essentially making every bullet into a micro grenade.

[In Exile]

Larger bullets can account for the increased killing power of weapons from ME1 to ME2, but even disregarding stopping power, penetration,

and sheer kinetic energy - which depend on the power of the railgun as well, grain sized bullets might simply burn up like meteorites when you shoot them at such high velocities inside an atmosphere.

 

In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if when railguns actually become something a soldier can carry in real life, they would still use magazines with regular size ammo. It might even allow you to replace the powder charge with a small exploding warhead, essentially making every bullet into a micro grenade.

 

So, basically, something along the lines of barriers/shields becoming more effective, requiring larger ballistics and negating the benefit of the original large clip technology? 

[Guanxii]

I liked ME3's mixed approach wherein you have a wide variety of weapon choices - some heat-based with re-chargeable ammo like the Lancer, Particle Rifle, Collector SMG, some clip based, e.g. Harrier et al.

 

Sure there were far more clip based weapons than heat based weapons but this is something BioWare can address in ME:A. People who like rechargeable ammo would be more than accommodated and the rest of us who have no preference can suit ourselves.

[Laughing_Man]

So, basically, something along the lines of barriers/shields becoming more effective, requiring larger ballistics and negating the benefit of the original large clip technology? 

 

Essentially.

 

Heat dissipation remains like it was originally, with "frictionless materials" and a permanent heat sinking system.

 

Ammo blocks remain the same size they were.

 

The only thing that changes is that ammo shavers are designed to shave bigger projectiles from the block, due to *insert lore reason here*. (examples: shield technology advanced and made grain-sized projectiles less effective / tiny projectile tend to burn up in atmosphere in long ranges / larger projectiles are easier or more efficient to use with ammo mods)

 

Bottom line is either a simple reload system for ammo blocks every X shots depends on specific weapons.

Or a combined mechanic with overheat as usual, and ammo-block reload every 1000 / 500 / 100 / 50 shots.

[Sylvius the Mad]

The standard ammo mechanic is here to stay.

I don't understand why, though. Just because it's in most shooters is no reason to have it in this one.

And they're going to need an explanation why standardized thermal clips are littering a galaxy we've never visited before.

[MrStoob]

ME1 wasn't at all like other shooters (regardless of the RPG element), part of the charm.  It never really felt like 'playing levels', it was more kind of organic than that, so not having ammo didn't affect that gameplay style.  A fight can break out unannounced in ME1 (attack outside Chora's Den, or taking on Tali's would be assailant for e.g.), without relying on a cut scene with an inappropriate weapon for your class that you don't have in your inventory (but that's another matter...).

[KirkyX]

I don't understand why, though. Just because it's in most shooters is no reason to have it in this one.

And they're going to need an explanation why standardized thermal clips are littering a galaxy we've never visited before.

Random Engineer: 'Lieutenant Ryder, we've developed an adaptor for Khet thermal clip technology. Just slot them right in there like usual.'

 

Lieutenant Ryder: 'Well, that's convenient.'

 

Done. Or, at least, it's at least as good an explanation as we got for why, in the scant two years between Mass Effect and Mass Effect 2, thermal-clip-based weaponry became so common that you could find the bloody things absolutely everywhere, with nary an old internal-heat-sink-based weapon in sight.

 

 

I had kinda hoped they'd just throw in the towel and give us a hybrid system - no more clips (I'm one of those people who never seemed to run out of ammo in ME2 and 3 anyway) but the guns can only fire a set number of shots before you have to hit the vent button, with perhaps a Gears-style active reload system thrown in for funzies - but since we clearly see a clip being swapped out in the trailer, that obviously isn't happening...

 

Well, unless the idea is that you put a clip in the gun, heat it to capacity, and then shove it back into a specialised cooling enclosure in your armour, swapping between two or three clips in perpetuity... (Nah, that's definitely not the idea.)

 

 

In any case, it's obvious that we should just switch over to phasers, and leave all this archaic ballistic nonsense behind. 

[Laughing_Man]

I don't understand why, though. Just because it's in most shooters is no reason to have it in this one.

 

Because EA, that's why. The game needs to have enough generic crap in it to appeal to casual shooter fans.

[Cyonan]

This is true only in the sense that you have a finite number of ammo at the bottom of your screen, but in most shooters you have enough ammo and weapons scattered around or dropped by enemies to never really need to worry about your ammo count.

 

Here is a crazy thought, maybe they should have capped the ammo according to lore limits, meaning every thousand shots or so you will have to switch ammo block.

 

Or, change the size of ammo from grain sized projectiles to something bigger (makes more sense anyway due to friction problems), and so you can have overheat plus an ammo limit at whichever point you choose. It can be 500 shots, 400, or maybe even 200 or 50, depends on the weapon and the size of the projectile.

 

It always amazes me how little effort it takes to think up possible solutions that take the lore into account, and how Bioware didn't even bother doing that.

 

At this point the best solution if people are going to be insistent that guns ought to still dissipate heat to "regenerate" shots even with the thermal clip system is claim that with the changes to the gun's internal systems the dissipation isn't as efficient as it used to be so the regeneration rate is only about 2-3% per second(or 30-50 seconds for a full regen of a clip) while not firing.

 

In other words make waiting for heat almost pointless just so you can say that you're technically still following lore while keeping the mechanic they wanted to change to.

 

Your idea doesn't universally work anymore for lore either, now that we have weapons which don't use an ammo block. What exactly am I supposed to be reloading in the Falcon?

 

It also begs the question of after 50 shots with the Widow, why even bother asking me to reload? That sounds like just including it for the sake of including it, which is as pointless as heat is in my above suggestion.

[LiechockiRJ]

I prefer the ammo system.

 

In ME1, if you play as a soldier and install 2 Frictionless Materials in the assalt rifle, you turn yourself into a human turret. No need to stop shooting. Never.

[Laughing_Man]

Your idea doesn't universally work anymore for lore either, now that we have weapons which don't use an ammo block. What exactly am I supposed to be reloading in the Falcon?

 

It also begs the question of after 50 shots with the Widow, why even bother asking me to reload? That sounds like just including it for the sake of including it, which is as pointless as heat is in my above suggestion.

 

Your idea is better than nothing I guess, at the very least it would be a nod toward the lore.

But I would cut it down to something mildly useful like 10 seconds.

 

Falcon is the exception rather than the rule, and most weapons simply do not need ammo block replacement mid battle, so that's why you don't see it.

 

As for the Widow - added "balance" I guess? Mostly as a consideration towards everyone who can't imagine playing a shooter with practically unlimited ammo.

 

Personally I'm good with either making overheat management the only mechanic, maybe with an option to use omni-gel to cool it quicker (that would be the ME version of the mechanic from battlefront), or just proclaim that heat dissipation is mostly no longer a problem in small weapons due to technological advancements, and move to high caliber ammo so we can have the holy reloading action.

[Laughing_Man]

I prefer the ammo system.

 

In ME1, if you play as a soldier and install 2 Frictionless Materials in the assalt rifle, you turn yourself into a human turret. No need to stop shooting. Never.

 

What is so horrible about it? You have a better weapon, you only need to take cover if your shield takes too many hits.

[SolNebula]

In ME3 the Lancer was the best weapon in the game. They made it so that the oldest weapon in the entire game was the most useful despite all this ridiculous lore that made termal clips tech superior to heat sink techs.

 

It only make sense for an expedition like this one to bring along weapons that are less dependable on supply lines and have a greater autonomy. Forget the romances and who is going to be in game cover (Rydude or Rygal) , the lack of overheating weapons is what is going to REALLY upset me in this game. I so hope they are going to  provide us with those.

[Cyonan]

Your idea is better than nothing I guess, at the very least it would be a nod toward the lore.

But I would cut it down to something mildly useful like 10 seconds.

 

Falcon is the exception rather than the rule, and most weapons simply do not need ammo block replacement mid battle, so that's why you don't see it.

 

As for the Widow - added "balance" I guess? Mostly as a consideration towards everyone who can't imagine playing a shooter with practically unlimited ammo.

 

Personally I'm good with either making overheat management the only mechanic, maybe with an option to use omni-gel to cool it quicker (that would be the ME version of the mechanic from battlefront), or just proclaim that heat dissipation is mostly no longer a problem in small weapons due to technological advancements, and move to high caliber ammo so we can have the holy reloading action.

 

Falcon, Javelin, Reegar Carbine, and Arc Pistol all don't use an ammo block. One can also make the argument that explosive weapons like the Scorpion, Venom, and Krysae all probably don't either since more than a sand grain sized piece of metal has to be going on there in order for that to even work.

 

The point of making heat so irrelevant in my suggestion was to make it the same way you've made reloads in yours: as a consideration to those who can't imagine playing it without that mechanic there, but other than that it's virtually useless as a mechanic.

 

Claiming high caliber ammo would also work since sand grain sized projectiles never really made a ton of sense to begin with anyway given all the different ammo effects we can apply to that thing and all the different ways guns work in ME3.

[LiechockiRJ]

What is so horrible about it? You have a better weapon, you only need to take cover if your shield takes too many hits.

 

It´s not horrible, it's super fun (you can even stop a krogan charge with the mod that add 30% more weapon force, forget the name)

 

It is also extremely broken.

 

 

In ME3 the Lancer was the best weapon in the game. 

 

Of course it is. It´s broken.

[Hammerstorm]

I prefer the ammo system.

 

In ME1, if you play as a soldier and install 2 Frictionless Materials in the assalt rifle, you turn yourself into a human turret. No need to stop shooting. Never.

 

OR, they can use me1 ammo system and just remove the frictionless materials mods. Just an idea.