22 Antworten in diesem Thema

[Gibb_Shepard]

I haven't been on these forums in ages, but after playing DAI after a long gaming hiatus i just feel it should be recognized how well Bioware handled the Dialogue wheel. More options than ever, more tones than ever, more voices than ever. In the face of Fallout 4's absolute travesty of a dialogue system, i think reinforcement of how right DAI's dialogue system was should be reinforced.

 

It's also great to see how much Bioware listened to people's complaints about DA2's dialogue system. That system was basically Multiple Personality Disorder The Game. Hopefully the Mass Effect team can take this progress on board, and move away from the stripped down version seen in ME3.

[BansheeOwnage]

I haven't been on these forums in ages, but after playing DAI after a long gaming hiatus i just feel it should be recognized how well Bioware handled the Dialogue wheel. More options than ever, more tones than ever, more voices than ever. In the face of Fallout 4's absolute travesty of a dialogue system, i think reinforcement of how right DAI's dialogue system was should be reinforced.

 

It's also great to see how much Bioware listened to people's complaints about DA2's dialogue system. That system was basically Multiple Personality Disorder The Game. Hopefully the Mass Effect team can take this progress on board, and move away from the stripped down version seen in ME3.

It doesn't really have more tones than ever (and it has the same number of options as DA2 the vast majority of the time, 3). There are specific instances with deliberate emotional responses available and marked, but normal dialogue is actually arguably a step back from DA2, since it has no markers at all, whereas DA2 had 6(?), made even more baffling since there is a useless option to disable the icons if you wish.

 

I agree that the paraphrasing is definitely better than before (and in Fallout), but nothing would beat a way to simply see the whole line in advance, like Deus Ex did (and Fallout mods can do). The Inquisitor's options also tend to be more flat compared to DA2's more emotional ones, which some people liked and some didn't (personally I prefer emotionally-delivered lines).

[Gibb_Shepard]

It doesn't really have more tones than ever (and it has the same number of options as DA2 the vast majority of the time, 3). There are specific instances with deliberate emotional responses available and marked, but normal dialogue is actually arguably a step back from DA2, since it has no markers at all, whereas DA2 had 6(?), made even more baffling since there is a useless option to disable the icons if you wish.

 

I agree that the paraphrasing is definitely better than before (and in Fallout), but nothing would beat a way to simply see the whole line in advance, like Deus Ex did (and Fallout mods can do). The Inquisitor's options also tend to be more flat compared to DA2's more emotional ones, which some people liked and some didn't (personally I prefer emotionally-delivered lines).

I disagree. Sure they could have added the variety of tone markers to each dialogue option like in DA2 for normal conversation, but in the end DAI has more variability in the types of responses you can give tone wise in normal conversation. 

 

In the end i like the more subtle conversations you can have in DAI. You can say something without having to pass judgement.

 

And how good is it when you can make a contextual dialogue choice without the emotional voice? Just saying something tonally neutral as an observation, good stuff.

[BansheeOwnage]

I disagree. Sure they could have added the variety of tone markers to each dialogue option like in DA2 for normal conversation, but in the end DAI has more variability in the types of responses you can give tone wise in normal conversation.

I... fail to see how, sorry. Generally the options seem to be much less diverse tone-wise than options in DA2, which has advantages and disadvantages, but it's still what I found.

[Gibb_Shepard]

I... fail to see how, sorry. Generally the options seem to be much less diverse tone-wise than options in DA2, which has advantages and disadvantages, but it's still what I found.

Well if we are perceiving two completely different things then i cant really discuss it further.

[Lazarillo]

And how good is it when you can make a contextual dialogue choice without the emotional voice? Just saying something tonally neutral as an observation, good stuff.

The problem, IMO, is that you really don't get that. Usually two of the three options were more or less equivalent, it seemed like to me. There would be a "yes" and an "I agree", and finally just a curt "that's stupid", seemed to be how it was often set up. Or I'd think it was asking a question, only to go "whoops, that was rhetorical/sarcasm!". The variety of tones, when they were available, was great, but they so rarely made an appearance.

I still feel like the Inquisitor was trying to find a halfway point between the Warden (who was silent, and therefore had a lot of variety and easy to project whatever personality one wanted) and Hawke (who had some wiggle room, but still had three "main" personalities to follow), but ended up being the worst of both worlds (limited options, but almost all bland and wishy-washy).

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Agreed. In terms of dialogue options and tone, the Inquisitor is definitely better than Hawke or Shepard. Can't really compare the Warden to them since the Warden is a silent protagonist. I hope they continue and improve along what they did with the Inquisitor. 

[vertigomez]

I think the wheel is going in the right direction, though I'd like for the VAs to be a little less neutral this time around. What's the point in having four different options if they don't inject a little personality in there?

Don't get me wrong - all four VAs had their moments in DAI, but I still think they were probably told to keep a fairly neutral tone..? Which didn't always work for me.

[Catilina]

Agreed. In terms of dialogue options and tone, the Inquisitor is definitely better than Hawke or Shepard. Can't really compare the Warden to them since the Warden is a silent protagonist. I hope they continue and improve along what they did with the Inquisitor. 

Hawke was not Shepard. The paragon–renegade system was very stupid (especially in the ME3!, as I see. Much more idiot, than the patient (helpful/good?), sarcastic/charming, direct (angry/agressive?).

 

I dont think, the Inquisitor's reactions was better than Hawke's. 

[Abyss108]

First game where I've ever liked the dialogue wheel and felt it worked!

 

I also never felt the Inquisitor was "flat", she was actually the first time I've played a voiced protagonist in a Bioware game and felt that they actually had realistic emotional responses and was allowed to get upset/scared/confused etc. The other protagonists have always seemed to be in "badass" mode for 95% of the game except for one or two scenes where the game has decided I must be emotional, even if I don't feel it fits the character I had been playing.

[Hrungr]

The implementation of the dialogue wheel in both games worked fine for me with paraphrasing getting some improvement in DAI. I loved that they went with multiple races and 4 VAs in DAI, and I think they all handled it capably, even if the material they had to work with was (IMO) not especially memorable.

 

I still think Jo Wyatt's Sarcastic-Hawke is the standout protagonist in the franchise with the most memorable lines and delivery.

[CronoDragoon]

The dialogue system was very good, and you can see the potential for it to improve even further through extensive use of Perks and class/race/background special dialogue options.

[Hrungr]

The dialogue system was very good, and you can see the potential for it to improve even further through extensive use of Perks and class/race/background special dialogue options.

 

On a related note, I'd love to see the Underworld/Nobility/Etc. knowledge perks fleshed out more in future games.

 

For example, instead of just spending a point and getting the Underworld Perk automatically, require the PC to actually meet underworld figures, undergo quests and pick up lore in order to gain the perk. Essentially, have the character earn it. But once you have it, it then opens up extra the dialogue options, discounts on the black market, rare offers, intimidation bonuses, allies, and so on.

 

And perhaps if you gain associations with all the game's factions (Underworld, Chantry, Circle of Magi, Magisterium, etc.), you can can acquire some kind of uber perk (along with some special dialogue options).

[PapaCharlie9]

On a related note, I'd love to see the Underworld/Nobility/Etc. knowledge perks fleshed out more in future games.
 
For example, instead of just spending a point and getting the Underworld Perk automatically, require the PC to actually meet underworld figures, undergo quests and pick up lore in order to gain the perk. Essentially, have the character earn it. But once you have it, it then opens up extra the dialogue options, discounts on the black market, rare offers, intimidation bonuses, allies, and so on.
 
And perhaps if you gain associations with all the game's factions (Underworld, Chantry, Circle of Magi, Magisterium, etc.), you can can acquire some kind of uber perk (along with some special dialogue options).

That all sounds good for add-on options, but, I've argued for the opposite before. If l've already decided to role play a shady character from the start, I should just get Underworld Knowledge from the getgo. CC should bestow at least one of the dialogue perks for free.

[vertigomez]

That all sounds good for add-on options, but, I've argued for the opposite before. If l've already decided to role play a shady character from the start, I should just get Underworld Knowledge from the getgo. CC should bestow at least one of the dialogue perks for free.

Reminds me of DAO, where Dwarf Commoners automatically received the pickpocketing skill, Human Nobles got sword & shield, etc. Even if you weren't playing a rogue or warrior in that scenario.

[Hrungr]

That all sounds good for add-on options, but, I've argued for the opposite before. If l've already decided to role play a shady character from the start, I should just get Underworld Knowledge from the getgo. CC should bestow at least one of the dialogue perks for free.

 

Depending on your character's origin, you can certainly make a case for it. If you're already a member of the Carta, the Minrathous Circle or the son/daughter of a Magister, then you could argue you should start off with those specific perks (or at least part of those perks - eg. the dialogue options, but not the discounts, offers, etc. until you've earned it).

 

But if you're a transplant from one of the southern nations, Dalish, a slave, or even from one of the rural areas of Tevinter, then it wouldn't really make sense... Though in that case you would still have your race/class-specific dialogue options.

[Pasquale1234]

That all sounds good for add-on options, but, I've argued for the opposite before. If l've already decided to role play a shady character from the start, I should just get Underworld Knowledge from the getgo. CC should bestow at least one of the dialogue perks for free.

+1

I found it a bit annoying to have to spend my first couple of perks for nobility and history knowledge in order to role-play the educated Trevelyan I wanted to play.

[ButtHurtPunk]

HAHAHAHAHA, but seriously, no. You had two bland good choices, one wry good choice, and a bunch of usually pointless questions that slowed down the pace of the game and felt like playing quarter slots. 

[Blueblood]

The dialogue was frustratingly bland and neutral, and the tones were few and far between. The American female VA made it tolerable for me though.

The dialogue was mainly flatlining throughout the game.
Just too ^^^-------------------------------------^------------------------
and not enough ^^----^^^^^^-----^^^^^----^^^^^^^^-----^^^^^

[CronoDragoon]

Another thing to consider, whether they do it or not, is that they now have the functionality in place for showing the full dialogue option. We've seen it through the "choice" system where they show consequences for each dialogue choice. That could conceivably adopted full-time. To make space for multiple lines, you can move the wheel to the left and have the full text show on the right on highlight.

[DragonAgeLegend]

The only thing missing which would have made the game SO much immersive would have been the cutscenes, still can't believe they removed something like this. I honestly hope they bring them back in DA4.  

[zyntifox]

I agree it's probably the best implementation of the 'dialogue wheel' so far. But it's still incredibly infuriating when the paraphrased option dosen't match the full line. I just wish they went with the Deus ex: Human revolution system. That system both gave you ha paraphrased option and the full line that would be delievered upon choosing that option.

[vanek2112]

I thought it was much better than DA2.  Hawke was always saying or doing something I didn't expect after picking the option.  I reloaded so many saves because of that.  With DAI I don't ever remember doing that and I loved having multiple voices to choose from.  Part of my issue with Hawke was that the voice didn't fit my character at all.  

It would be nice to get the full line of dialogue (at least optionally), but I think it was done pretty well in DAI.  I do agree sometimes the multiple choices seemed too similar to each other.