21 Antworten in diesem Thema

[Lakshun]

So far it's been almost pointless. If it's the start of the a battle it's perfectly fine but anytime in the middle of a battle it's pretty useless cause either a character's skills are on cd or most of the time, they are currently doing something and that means I cannot do anything with them.

When I check back 1-2 seconds later they usually are already doing something else, so only rarely can I actually give them any command.

Is there no way to tell them what to do next, after they finished what they are doing at the moment?

 

I tried taking on the lvl 12 Farm Rift demons 3 times in a row and each time I got wiped out cause 3/4 of the time I was still alive I was not able to tell characters to do anything. 

Frequently my main character (mage) and Solas will let me select a spell, but will not allow me to target an enemy (blocked sword icon) so I can't do anything with it.

 

Is there no way to use tactical cam successfully other than to turn of all tactics and spam it nonstop so the ai will do as little as possible and won't prevent me from giving orders?

[Thandal N'Lyman]

Have no idea what issue you're describing.  Using the TacCam is totally optional.  You can employ it as much or as little as you like.

 

(NOTE:  The Rift at the river south of the Farm is notoriously difficult to target because of the terrain, but not sure if that has anything to do with what you're on about.)

[Lakshun]

Like, I want to refresh a barrier with Solas, but 3 times in a row I cannot give him an order cause he's casting a different spell or using a normal attack (or maybe got knocked down).

By the time I finally am able to give him orders, he already used his barrier. Often on a single character instead of the 3 others that could have gotten a new barrier at the same time.

 

When fighting the lvl 12 Rift demons I only ever get to give orders at the very start of battle, afterwards the ai is constantly getting in my way.

But I cannot possibly turn off the ai / skill tactics cause then I would not be able to play without using TacCam nonstop.

 

Can I somehow tell characters what to do next, after they finished the current action? Cause getting the timing right for the one second or so the ai isn't doing anything simply doesn't work.

 

At this rate there is no point in using TacCam at all.

[Abyss108]

I'm not sure what the problem you are having is. 

 

I used the tac cam for most of the boss fights, and any other fights that were going badly for me, and never had any problems with characters already attacking/etc. You don't have to wait, just switch to what you actually want them to be doing immediately.

[Captain Wiseass]

I generally just use F1-F4 to switch characters in regular mode and give the command that way.

[Qis]

The game no longer turn based, so there is no queued actions any longer

[Tidus]

Tact cam? Never use it.. I found free style mêlée fighting is far better,battles are faster and all I need to focus on is my character.

 

Give it try you may like it much better.

 

Of course that means you need to keep upgrading your armor and weapons as find or buy them but, that should be a given anyway.

[Sylvius the Mad]

So far it's been almost pointless. If it's the start of the a battle it's perfectly fine but anytime in the middle of a battle it's pretty useless cause either a character's skills are on cd or most of the time, they are currently doing something and that means I cannot do anything with them.
When I check back 1-2 seconds later they usually are already doing something else, so only rarely can I actually give them any command.
Is there no way to tell them what to do next, after they finished what they are doing at the moment?

I tried taking on the lvl 12 Farm Rift demons 3 times in a row and each time I got wiped out cause 3/4 of the time I was still alive I was not able to tell characters to do anything.
Frequently my main character (mage) and Solas will let me select a spell, but will not allow me to target an enemy (blocked sword icon) so I can't do anything with it.

Is there no way to use tactical cam successfully other than to turn of all tactics and spam it nonstop so the ai will do as little as possible and won't prevent me from giving orders?

If you want characters' abilities to be available for you to trigger, you need to disable then in the tactics screen. Then the AI won't use them.

[Sylvius the Mad]

The game no longer turn based, so there is no queued actions any longer

Whether it's turn-based is immaterial. Queuing actions would still be a good idea.

BioWare said we can't because DAI combat moves too quickly, but that's absurd.

BioWare has never made an actual turn-based game. Shadowrun Returns is turn-based. BioWare's games have real-time-with-pause combat.

[Lakshun]

So, it's worthless unless that's all you ever do.

Good job ****** this up Bioware ._.

[Sylvius the Mad]

So, it's worthless unless that's all you ever do.
Good job ****** this up Bioware ._.

This is basically how DAO and DA2 worked, as well. If you wanted an ability to be available for you at any time, you needed to configure that character's tactics not to use it, and to save enough mana/stamina to activate it.

The big difference with DAO and DA2 was that you had more abilities available, so keeping the AI from using one in particular was less of a tactical burden.

[Tidus]

Lakshun,I fully agree its useless and that's why I never used it and never will.

[Qis]

Whether it's turn-based is immaterial. Queuing actions would still be a good idea.

BioWare said we can't because DAI combat moves too quickly, but that's absurd.

BioWare has never made an actual turn-based game. Shadowrun Returns is turn-based. BioWare's games have real-time-with-pause combat.

 

What i mean by turn based is the combatants take turns, dice roll mechanic, the real time combat in previous games are turn based, the visual looks like they are in real time, while actually dice rolling behind the scene. It just that actions can bypass turns, that's why it doesn't look like turn based, an din DA2 the enemies are scripted that they can bypass turns many times, and so you and your companions can bypass their turns by doing a lot of actions

 

KotOR is turn based, and so DA:O and DA2

[Thandal N'Lyman]

"Turn-based" or not, the combat AI in DAI isn't like most other games'. Its design starts from the premise that the PC should NOT control every action of every party member. The PC gives general guidance to the other characters in the form of three options:

1. Use [Ability X] whenever you can.
2. Use [Ability Y] whenever you happen to feel like it.
3. Only use [Ability Z] when I ask [tell] you to.

It took a while but once I got used to the changes, (and tailored a few other elements of the AI's Behaviour) I found it worked very well. Much like how it took me half-a-playthrough to realize that not all "hostile critters" (as defined by the red circles around them) would automatically attack and therefore needed to *be* attacked.

So in this case, it sounds like the OP should set Solas to "Defend" another party member.

[Sylvius the Mad]

What i mean by turn based is the combatants take turns, dice roll mechanic, the real time combat in previous games are turn based, the visual looks like they are in real time, while actually dice rolling behind the scene.

The dice-rolling makes it stat-based, not turn-based. Taking turns would make it turn-based, but that's not what happens in any BioWare game. Characters can act simultaneously, which isn't possible in a turn-based game.

I really like turn-based combat, but BioWare has never done it. Shadowrun Returns is turn-based. So is Wasteland 2, Fallout 1&2, Wizardry 8, the AD&D Gold Box games... there have been lots of turn-based CRPGs, but not from BioWare.

[Sylvius the Mad]

"Turn-based" or not, the combat AI in DAI isn't like most other games'. Its design starts from the premise that the PC should NOT control every action of every party member.

The PC doesn't control anything. The player does that, and the player can control all of the party members simultaneously (which is the only good way to design party-based combat).

The tactical camera handles this quite well.

The PC gives general guidance to the other characters in the form of three options:

1. Use [Ability X] whenever you can.
2. Use [Ability Y] whenever you happen to feel like it.
3. Only use [Ability Z] when I ask [tell] you to.

It took a while but once I got used to the changes, (and tailored a few other elements of the AI's Behaviour) I found it worked very well.

The loss of DA2's programmable tactics system is a huge blow. I really hope they bring it back. In fact, given how much the system improved from DAO to DA2, I had been hoping it would progress further, eventually becoming a full-fledged API where we could program all manner of things.

Much like how it took me half-a-playthrough to realize that not all "hostile critters" (as defined by the red circles around them) would automatically attack and therefore needed to *be* attacked.

This is another thing the game did badly. Everything was either hostile or invulnerable. There was no middle ground. There was nothing that behaved like wildlife in Skyrim, for example.

I wonder if that's an engine limitation. It shouldn't be; Battlefield would be better if there were innocent bystanders and non-combatants to get in the way.

[PhroXenGold]

The dice-rolling makes it stat-based, not turn-based. Taking turns would make it turn-based, but that's not what happens in any BioWare game. Characters can act simultaneously, which isn't possible in a turn-based game.

I really like turn-based combat, but BioWare has never done it. Shadowrun Returns is turn-based. So is Wasteland 2, Fallout 1&2, Wizardry 8, the AD&D Gold Box games... there have been lots of turn-based CRPGs, but not from BioWare.

 

I can sort of see how people could describe the old D&D Bioware games as turn based, as the system was all based around 6 second rounds which corresponded to the turns of the PnP system, and with the autopause settings you could actually get pretty close to a concurrent turn based system - if you had it pausing every round, you could set your actions for that round, then let it play out akin to a TB game like Frozen Synapse. But yeah, DA has never been remotely turn based.

[Qis]

The dice-rolling makes it stat-based, not turn-based. Taking turns would make it turn-based, but that's not what happens in any BioWare game. Characters can act simultaneously, which isn't possible in a turn-based game.

I really like turn-based combat, but BioWare has never done it. Shadowrun Returns is turn-based. So is Wasteland 2, Fallout 1&2, Wizardry 8, the AD&D Gold Box games... there have been lots of turn-based CRPGs, but not from BioWare.

 

KotOR is turn based, the same mechanic used in DA:O and DA2 but improvised. Turn based use dice rolls such as D20. It is only that it can be played in real time just as Arcanum can be played real time or turn by turn

[Sylvius the Mad]

KotOR is turn based, the same mechanic used in DA:O and DA2 but improvised. Turn based use dice rolls such as D20. It is only that it can be played in real time just as Arcanum can be played real time or turn by turn

You're grouping together 2 different elements. That it plays turn by turn (is turn-based) has nothing to do with the dice. If Mass Effect used dice behind the scenes to control the spread on your shots, that wouldn't make it turn-based. That would just make it stat-based.

By misusing the term, you're making it harder to distingush between games that differ only in terms of how they play, and not in terms of how they resolve hits and misses.

Take the new Torment game, for example. It was always going to use RNGs (dice, in your terminology), but the devs actually polled their community to see whether the game should be turn-based rather than real-time-with-pause (the vote was basically a tie).

Pillars of Eternity isn't turn-based.

Wasteland 2 is turn-based.

Calling them both turn-based will only serve to confuse people.

[Qis]

KotOR is turn based, as well DA:O and DA2 an both use dice roll. Each character takes turn to execute actions, including your PC.

 

the mechanic is

 

Your dex + dice roll vs enemy dex + dice roll, if yours higher, you hit, if enemy higher, enemy hit you. Then count on defense, your defense + dice roll, enemy defense + dice roll, if your's higher you block, if enemies higher, enemy block you. You can queued up actions that bypass that in KotOR, your PC will execute actions instead of dice roll vs dice roll. In DA:O you only allowed one action but you can chain many actions after the first, it is because all actions have cooldowns. That is why special attack cannot be blocked, it baypass the dice roll. In DA2, dice roll rarely use to determine hit because enemies and your allies are so scripted to use actions one after another.

 

it is just that simple.

 

DA:I no longer use dice roll and no longer using turns, it's button mashing now like Skyrim and shooter games. That's why there is no auto attack anymore

 

Some games using stats but still button mashing like Diablo and Dark Soul, stats only determine damage and such things, but not determine hit and miss, your action is depends on pushing buttons

[Abyss108]

The definition of turn based has nothing to do with "dice" no matter how much you talk about them.

 

Most of your post has nothing to even do with being turn based. It's all just says "use a random number to generate combat numbers" which pretty much every game does not matter what system they use. As far as I can tell you seem to think "turn based" = "RNG based to hit chance" which is not true? Morrowind uses RNG to determine whether you hit an enemy but it's all completely in real time (and also super frustrating). 

 

Or is it simply that you think any game you can queue up actions is turn based? Because you can queue up actions in many real time games, there's nothing to prevent it.

[Qis]

When there's dice rolls, there are turns, because dice rolls calculate A vs B, it's A turn vs B, then B turn vs A, understand? And it's automatic. Your and enemy skills/talents/action can bypass this

 

Yes Morrowind have that and it's semi-turn based, TES evolved into fully shooter later