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Bioware just ruined my playthough


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#1
LAZERAK47

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Do all the missions, get full loyalty and fully upgrade the team. For the first time ever assaulting the Collector Base, I'm using Garrus, who usually leads the second squad.

 

They tell me to pick someone with experience, someone who's lead teams before and I can't pick Garrus.

 

So naturally, I picked the Veteran Merc who's been in a ton of scrapes and managed to get the job done. Talking about Zaeed.

 

APPARENTLY THAT'S THE WRONG CHOICE! I have to pick Jacob (a grunt) or Miranda (assumed wrong choice because of Jack).

 

So that's 16 hours of gameplay wasted because the man who created and ran the Blue Suns (until betrayed) and had many successful jobs since then is not leadership material. But clearly the squadmate who manages to get into catfights is.

 

I've never shelfed a game before, but this one might the first. The fact that Zaeed isn't a good candidate to lead the diversion team is unacceptable.


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#2
straykat

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I've never had that happen with either. How did it do that?

 

Miranda says something like "At least he knows what he's doing" with Garrus.

 

 

Also, how did you get there in 16 hours?

 

As for Zaeed, I guess he was more the muscle of the Suns.. and his story is a bit like Jack's to me. The lone human surviving terrible odds out in the Terminus. He's probably lost some people skills.



#3
Spirit Vanguard

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I'm a little confused, are you saying this is your first time playing or the first time you couldn't pick Garrus? If the first and if you want to know the only ideal leaders for the other team:

 

Spoiler

 

I'm not sure why you couldn't pick Garrus... that's odd. I know this sounds like a stupid question, but, did you scroll through the entire list? Garrus can be towards the bottom, so maybe you just didn't see him?



#4
geth47

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Zaed is the master of survival, but he´s  not a team player. Not a leader. 

 

He surrounded himself with the wrong crowd and ended up betrayed.

 

In many of his stories you can hear about the many times he was able to survive while everyone around him died.

 

He´s good on his own but he´s not a very good coordinator. 

 

The same can be said for Samara. She´s disciplined, skilled, experienced, and no doubt incredibly powerful... But she´s simply not leadership material. She doesn´t have much experience in groups, much less leading them. Specially such an eccletic group composed of so many different characters. She will play ball nicely, but she won´t lead very well. 

 

Garrus on the other hand was very good in leading a group composed of people from multiple worlds while on Omega. 

 

Miranda is also a fine leader in the sense that she knows how to coordinate the pieces. Not a very simpathetic leader, nor a charismatic one, but an effective one at the end of the day.  Jacob starts a bit naive, but after his loyalty mission the game assumes that he matured a lot, even if it doesn´t really displays it. 

 

When I first played I actually considered Mordin to be a good leader. I mean, he was skilled, reliable, was able to improvise with limited material, was able to survive and hold his clinic when there was a desperate gang war going on around it. And he was able to think fast and adapt to new situations. He may be physically weak and seem to be more than a like awkward, but I do think he´s capable as a leader.  My mistake, I guess, when I took Garrus (armor-piercing against harbinger) and Miranda (buffs for everyone plus warp against collectors) with me in the second section. I think the game was trying to show that mordin would not be a good leader by having one of his students trying to sabotage everything he did in regards to the krogan. 


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#5
Arkhne

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If Zaeed is not leadership material, neither is Miranda.

Neither really "gets along" with others.

I wouldn't take orders from Miranda or Jacob, neither of them would qualify in my eyes.

Garrus and Zaeed are the only real leaders in my eye, most of the others falling somewhere between this and the two mentioned above.

That one of the three options has only ever TAKEN orders, and one of them can't keep her personally feelings about people private, really says a lot about Bioware's decision making teams.



#6
ArcadiaGrey

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When you read the comics you see Zaeed's entire crew die, and he doesn't give a crap.   :lol:

 

So yeah, not great leadership material.  Plus many of the squad wouldn't respect him as he's a merc who created one of the gangs on Omega, so there's that.

 

Why would you throw the game away though?  Like a kid spitting out their dummy?

Just go back to an old save and re-do it.

 

Miranda has lead entire teams before, very successfully, and Jacob was in special ops and knows how to command a team in difficult circumstances.  They're decent choices.


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#7
straykat

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Miranda, Jacob, and Garrus have high boy scout/girl scout stats like Shep. I think that's why. They coordinate like military leaders and not just as specialists or killing capacity.

 

Jacob might be boring and still Cerberus, but even Jack tolerates him. "Jacob just doesn't know himself."



#8
themikefest

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How is it that you weren't able to choose Garrus? He's always an option to lead the fireteam. Try reloading an earlier save.



#9
geth47

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"If Zaeed is not leadership material, neither is Miranda.

Neither really "gets along" with others."

 

Zaed is good only when it comes to himself. He doesn´t give the slighest importance to anybody else. If you did his loyalty mission this becomes clear as daylight. He won´t care if hundreds of innocent people will perish as long as he gets what he wants. If you place someone in charge of the team it´s with the impression that this particular individual will try to make sure that everyone survives.

From your words, I suppose never in your live you had to deal with a nasty boss. I take it for certain that you were never drafted by the military forces in your country. 

When it comes to hierarchy we don´t obey people based on personal preference. We dont get this luxury.

 

And besides, if you liked shepard you would obey the person he/she placed in charge for the time being as much as if it was shepard himself/herself. 

Miranda, as I said, is not a charismatic type of leader. She doesn´t try to be liked. I would not like her as a person if she was my commander, but I would at the very least have profound respect for her competence. She´s fully comitted to the mission and to her goals. Not every successful leader has to be a nice one. Just read History and you will see it. 

 

The real problem is not about Miranda being a good leader (she´s a fine one). It´s you who wouldn´t be a good soldier or employee if you think leaders have to be liked in order to be obeyed. 

 

Jacob, on the other hand, comes across as the opposite of Miranda. He´s likable, but doesn´t sound like a very sharp mind. He´s strong, he is powerful, but he seems to be more like a foot-soldier than a leader. He I first saw Jacob and Miranda it was clear to me that this was a duo featuring he as the brawn to Miranda´s brain. Miranda may be cynic, but Jacob is far too trusting. She reacts faster. While Jacob is still thinking about what should be done, she already made up her mind, went, returned and is midway going out again. 

 

Like I said, I would not fall in love for Miranda as my boss nor would I be willing to take a bullet for her, but I can certainly see her as a strong leader, and a much better one than Jacob, Zaed and Samara.

 

My only point of dissonance with the creators of the game is that I find mordin to be a potential good leader too, even if his pupil changed his mind later on. He is quick, smart, has a genius intellect (even for a Salarian, and that is saying quite A LOT), has medical experience, military background and even had a stint with salarian intelligence.  He can see from all the angles and can easily adapt and improvise. With the right tools at his disposal, he´s an extremelly dangerous person. And even with improper tools, he can still find openings and improvise. 

 

There´s no member on the team that is more versatile, resourceful and creative as him. He is a full leader, in the broad sense of the word. The military in him will make sure that he will hold the line and get the job done, the intelligence operative in him will make sure that he´s aware of all the resources, the brilliant scientist in him will make him creative should the need arise and the medical doctor in him should make him never lose sight of the lives of the crew. He would fight the enemies well while at the same time still being able to take care of everyone. 

 

It was a big shock for me when he died. "Tell them... I... held... the line."

 

Thank heavens for the savestate function. Otherwise I think I would have punched the screen. Or throw the joystick at it. 


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#10
geth47

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"How is it that you weren't able to choose Garrus? He's always an option to lead the fireteam. Try reloading an earlier save."

 

Depending on how many people you recruited and what upgrades you installed Garrus can die in the section after using the omega-4 relay and prior to the crash at the base. 

 

Oh, and he needs to be loyal. Garrus, Jacob and Miranda will all died if their loyalty missions were not done. And in the case of Miranda, she will also die if shepard lost her favor during the argument with Jack after both Jack and Miranda´s missions are complete. 

 

And that´s why I always hack the reputation bar. To hell with it. So I can do the missions in the order of my preference with no worries in terms of dialogue. 



#11
Unata

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Unless Garrus is assigned to something else or dead he is always on the list, loyal or not (just dies if not loyal) for fireteam lead, probably needed to click on the down arrow in the list, mouse scroll wheel didn't work in my case, had to actually click the down arrow in the list.



#12
themikefest

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Depending on how many people you recruited and what upgrades you installed Garrus can die in the section after using the omega-4 relay and prior to the crash at the base.

I know that. I assumed the Normandy had the upgrades plus the poster never mentioned Garrus was dead
 

Oh, and he needs to be loyal. Garrus, Jacob and Miranda will all died if their loyalty missions were not done. And in the case of Miranda, she will also die if shepard lost her favor during the argument with Jack after both Jack and Miranda´s missions are complete.

Miranda will only die if taken to fight 3-eyes if not loyal. And depending on the holding the line situation, she can die as well if not loyal
 

And that´s why I always hack the reputation bar. To hell with it. So I can do the missions in the order of my preference with no worries in terms of dialogue.

I don't have to do that on the console. If I want both Miranda and Jack loyal, I do Jack's loyalty mission immediately after completing Miranda's loyalty mission. When facing both, I have the blue and red dialogue that I can choose to keep both loyal



#13
aoibhealfae

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Hmm.. The game kinda tell you Garrus he's a good leader but the things that was shown in the trilogy... he's a lieutenant and a loyal subordinate to Shepard... who never once question Shepard's decisions and fits all the qualities of a good follower.  By right, Garrus isn't a successful leader material either. Regardless of how he was betrayed, he did brought a war on his team and got the rest of his team killed because he thought they were good enough to take them all out just for a belief he had that he was doing the right thing. None of the merc groups have anything against Garrus but Garrus want them all dead anyway. Whether the merc groups was bad or what, the least the game could do was build a case against them.. 

 

At least Zaeed did create Blue Suns which became one of the three dominant merc group in the terminus system. That's like... legendary pokemon or something.



#14
Miserybot

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Something similar happened to me during my main playthrough... That part, around halfway through? You rescue your crew from the pods, and have to choose a squadmate to escort them back to the Normandy. My logic at the time was, "Well, Grunt's a big, tanky dude. There's no way he'd fail escorting them."

 

Apparently I was wrong. Mordin was killed while holding the line, AKA the very final part, after you've killed the final boss and done everything meaningful. It was painful, but I didn't put the game away and never play it again. I sucked it up, told Mordin he was a little ******* *****, and loaded the Collector Base save.



#15
LAZERAK47

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I didn't pick Garrus because I made him a member of MY team.

 

It isn't my first time playing, just my first time playing without using Garrus as team leader.

 

I was playing on the difficulty before Insanity, so all the bugs had barriers. Thane was my other squadmate because he could deal with armored targets, whereas Garrus could strip barriers easily (Concussive shot+ Assault Rifle).

 

And yeah, Miranda does say "Well, at least he knows what he's doing." when I picked Zaeed.

 

She also says earlier in the game "I'm never wrong Jacob."
 

Apparently that was a massive lie by Bioware too.

 

It's more the fact that this feels like a deliberate sabotage by the devs. The game tells you to pick an experienced leader. That's what I did.

 

So what if Zaeed's team dies because he gets what he wants. I guarantee what he wants at that particular time is to survive the Suicide Mission, otherwise he doesn't get paid. It would be in his best interests to keep people alive, especially since they AREN'T being paid like him (obvious exception might be Kasumi).



#16
straykat

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I didn't pick Garrus because I made him a member of MY team.

 

 

That makes sense. It wasn't clear at first. 

 

Either way, Zaeed is a lone wolf. It's possible he finds it in himself to change (since he seems to lead some mercs in ME3..kind of like Grunt and Jack and Tali being leaders later), but he's not all that for the moment. I didn't write it.. nor did you. We don't really have a place here. Not sure why you'd quit the game over it. Especially since you got to the end already.


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#17
themikefest

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I didn't pick Garrus because I made him a member of MY team.

Only after you chose who the fireteam leader would be. Which means Garrus' name is on the list to choose to be the fireteam leader



#18
LAZERAK47

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That makes sense. It wasn't clear at first. 

 

Either way, Zaeed is a lone wolf. It's possible he finds it in himself to change (since he seems to lead some mercs in ME3..kind of like Grunt and Jack and Tali being leaders later), but he's not all that for the moment. I didn't write it.. nor did you. We don't really have a place here. Not sure why you'd quit the game over it. Especially since you got to the end already.

Why did I quit?

Because Tali was my specialist.



#19
Spirit Vanguard

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I see. Well even if you can't pick Garrus because you want him in your squad Miranda and Jacob will still work for team leader. You can only change the leader once after beginning the assault, and your squad should reset at that time.

Why did I quit?
Because Tali was my specialist.

Frustrating, but you could load an earlier save.
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#20
straykat

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Why did I quit?

Because Tali was my specialist.

 

Did you somehow overwrite the initial Autosave? If so, sorry to hear that. If you're on a PC, you might be able to reset before the Suicide Mission. Not sure.



#21
Spirit Vanguard

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^ There is the "restart this mission" load, which I don't think you can actually overwrite? At least not tangibly. Starting another mission will change it.



#22
straykat

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^ There is the "restart this mission" load, which I don't think you can actually overwrite? At least not tangibly. Starting another mission will change it.

 

I remember there was something funky about the SM though. Like that mission restart might just take you at the beginning of the Collector Base..rather than the very beginning of the Omega 4 Relay stuff (which is where he'd have to choose new squad leaders).

 

I could be wrong...



#23
themikefest

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Restarting the suicide mission puts the player back after the choice of who is the fireteam leader, who is assigned to go in the vent and the squadmates that will be accompanying Shepard. So to change that, a save is needed before using the Omega-4 relay



#24
straykat

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Err... so I'm right then?

 

I tend to save before every main mission (so end up having 20+ save files by the end of the game). So that's the way I do it.


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#25
Spirit Vanguard

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I thought it went back completely, before the relay. I always have backup/before mission saves, though, so I don't use it.