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Mass Effect 2 has highest completion rate in ME, Dragon Age series


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#51
Akrabra

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I'm dumbfounded by statistics like that.  But then I can't afford many games and play every one I get at least twice, to completion, to keep me occupied until I buy something new.

 

The games I've quit before the end can be counted on one hand tbh.  There's....er.....Mafia, Hitman Absolution, Deus Ex 2, and just a few hours of Cities Skyline so I guess I never played that enough either.

If you look at Steam Achievements stats you'll see that 16% of everyone that bought Skyrim didn't even finish the tutorial, which is insane. Games overall has a really low completion rate, people buy it, try it and then forget about it. I don't get it either, i have only put down a handful of games of many hundreds in my life. 



#52
Amirit

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Again, I don't think the percentage of people who finish a game has anything to do with "success." There are much more reliable metrics for it, chief among them sales. And by that one, DAI is Bioware's most successful game to date. I would also argue critical acclaim contributes more to a game success than whether people finished it, and DAI also takes that one home, what with it being GotY and all.

 

Even if most people didn't finish a game it doesn't mean they didn't like it. Some of the games in my Steam library have hours upon hours of me playing them and yet I've never "finished" them.

 

If you created a 100 characters but finished the game with only one of them - you would still be registered among those who finished the game, completed it. And you would be counted as part of that insignificant percentage.

 

As for "playing for other reasons" - it means Bethesda could safely fired all writers they have, since no one is playing their game for the story anyway, right? (Actually, in case of Bethesda it might be very true)

 

Sorry, but if someone got bored with the story so much that can not finish it, it means writing failed miserably. Hence, game - if that game is story-based! - IS unsuccessful. Because it's main attraction - the story - did not attract players. 

 

For story-driven RPGs amount of people finished it is in fact equals it's success.



#53
ArcadiaGrey

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If you look at Steam Achievements stats you'll see that 16% of everyone that bought Skyrim didn't even finish the tutorial, which is insane. Games overall has a really low completion rate, people buy it, try it and then forget about it. I don't get it either, i have only put down a handful of games of many hundreds in my life. 

 

WUT??  Good grief.  



#54
straykat

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If you created a 100 characters but finished the game with only one of them - you would still be registered among those who finished the game, completed it. And you would be counted as part of that insignificant percentage.

 

As for "playing for other reasons" - it means Bethesda could safely fired all writers they have, since no one is playing their game for the story anyway, right? (Actually, in case of Bethesda it might be very true)

 

Sorry, but if someone got bored with the story so much that can not finish it, it means writing failed miserably. Hence, game - if that game is story-based! - IS unsuccessful. Because it's main attraction - the story - did not attract players. 

 

For story-driven RPGs amount of people finished it is in fact equals it's success.

 

The main attraction of TES was never the story though. It's the sandbox + fantasy. It's GTA with swords. Go steal spoons, get hooked on skooma, go on a killing spree... that sort of thing.

 

Their lore is interesting (better than DA anyways), but created by a guy who might be on a permanent mushroom trip (Michael Kirkbride). Just try reading his extended stuff especially. I can't even tell if it's actually fantasy sometimes. It's almost sci-fi. Skyrim might be the first time it was a little more presentable.



#55
Gwydden

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If you created a 100 characters but finished the game with only one of them - you would still be registered among those who finished the game, completed it. And you would be counted as part of that insignificant percentage.

 

As for "playing for other reasons" - it means Bethesda could safely fired all writers they have, since no one is playing their game for the story anyway, right? (Actually, in case of Bethesda it might be very true)

 

Sorry, but if someone got bored with the story so much that can not finish it, it means writing failed miserably. Hence, game - if that game is story-based! - IS unsuccessful. Because it's main attraction - the story - did not attract players. 

 

For story-driven RPGs amount of people finished it is in fact equals it's success.

Several things:

  1. Most people who play RPGs don't play anywhere close to a hundred characters. I'd be surprised if most of those who played any game by Bioware, Bethesda or CDPR rolled more than even just one.
  2. Yes, if Bethesda didn't bother with a main story in their games I doubt most of those who played their games would care or even notice.
  3. "Got bored with the story;" what makes you think that was the reason? It's much more likely that they just don't care about story to begin with, as has been pointed out.
  4. "Writing failed miserably;"  Dark Souls 3 has a higher completion rate than ME2. And yet, I've never heard anyone praise DS3 for its amazing story, only for the combat. But, based on your logic, according to which the only reason for a higher completion rate is an "objectively" better story, DS3 has the best writing in AAA RPGs of the last decade.
  5. Even if you are correct that more people finished certain games because the story was "better," you're making an appeal to popularity. Transformers: Age of Extinction made 1.104 billion at the box office, and to account for that it is safe to assume many, many people went to see it. To put it in perspective, I'll just say Citizen Kane didn't even make up for its own budget and was a massive commercial flop, and even to this day I doubt most people have ever seen it. Are you going to argue Transformers somehow has masterful storytelling?
  6. There is therefore no objective reason to think ME2 has a better story than other Bioware games, as you seem to think. But maybe you're arguing that regardless of the quality of the story the important thing is that the most people enjoy it e.g. maximum commercial success? If so, that is also a flawed argument as, yet again, a game's completion rate has nothing to do with its success. Companies care whether people buy their products, not how or how much they use them. If they wanted to make a more successful game, they wouldn't imitate ME2, but rather ME3 and DAI.
  7. You're also assuming that just because the main attraction of Bioware RPGs is the story, most people buy it because of the story. More people bought ME3 than ME2, and the multiplayer is likely to have been a reason for that. I've already illustrated that it is perfectly possible for some to buy a story-driven RPG and then complain that there is too much talking. Is it the game's fault that those players weren't attracted to the story, when they weren't even looking for a story to begin with?
  8. Define "success," please. I've said a few times already why completion rate has nothing to do with commercial success. You're obviously talking about the "quality" of the game, then... but that is subjective and ultimately comes down to individual opinion. The apparent fact that DAO has the smallest completion rate of any Bioware game doesn't sway me one inch from my position that it is the best Bioware game of the last decade, and that ME2 appears to have the second highest completion rate of any recent AAA RPG does nothing to convince me that its story doesn't suck and that Bioware shouldn't look away from it and to ME1 for inspiration as they make MEA.

WUT??  Good grief.  

Yeah, it's shocking, but it's also extremely common even outside of RPGs. I once took a look at the Steam achievements for one of my favorite 4x strategy games, Endless Legend. Turns out that over 30% of the people who've bought it haven't played even as little as ten turns in the whole game, and over 80% have never won a single game on any difficulty (and I've tried the lowest one; the AI just kind of stands there doing nothing waiting for you to win).

 

So I feel less than inclined to consider a game's completion rate as a sign of its quality or even success. After all, people don't pay to complete a game. They just pay to play it, even if they only do so for a couple hours or not at all.


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#56
Amirit

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The main attraction of TES was never the story though. It's the sandbox + fantasy. It's GTA with swords. Go steal spoons, get hooked on skooma, go on a killing spree... that sort of thing.

 

Their lore is interesting (better than DA anyways), but created by a guy who might be on a permanent mushroom trip (Michael Kirkbride). Just try reading his extended stuff especially. I can't even tell if it's actually fantasy sometimes. It's almost sci-fi. Skyrim might be the first time it was a little more presentable.

 

Would not argue with that. But it is labeled as "RPG". Obviously, RPG does not equal "story" but I was one of those who did not bother to read about "solo-sandbox-medieval-simulator" and hoped for the story. Needless to say, I did not finish the game.

 

Btw, if people can not finish even Prologue, it means Skyrim misrepresented itself for any group of players. 



#57
straykat

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DS games are completed probably because it's a favorite for hardcore gamers, and it's got an ever dangling carrot on a stick. People want to perform well and do the best they can in it. It's not casual. It has nothing to do with story, but just old fashioned gaming (like you used to get in arcades).



#58
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Yet in ME2 squadmates hardly say anything in missions.  I specifically got Legion as early as possible yet he was barely acknowledged in all the loyalty and recruitment missions.  It's one of ME2 failings for me, thank goodness the squad gets more to say in ME3.

It really didn't bother me that squadmates didn't have much to comment on during missions. When they spoke to Shepard one-on-one, that's where the magic was. Unlike ME3 where almost every conversation was reduced to auto-dialogue. Talking to companions in ME3 wasn't at all interactive or immersive a lot of the time, and some times a few characters seemed a bit OOC. Character interaction is what ME2 excelled at, and it's what made the game a good one. There is nothing to take away from ME3 other than combat IMO and even then they managed to screw that up, messing up a few of the classes, plus there's no challenge at all. Also let's not forget about them taking away combat dialogue in ME3 as well. I personally miss Garrus saying: "Scoped and Dropped!"
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#59
Amirit

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Several things:

Spoiler

 

1. My bad! That was the answer to the claim from a different post, that stated "If I started 10 characters, and only played through to completion on 2 of them, I still saw the end game content."

 

3. We can not tell either way, true, though I would not expect from newcomers to franchise expect no story from RPG.

4. Not familiar with the game. Can it be more people like fantasy over sci-fi? And short engaging story is more attractive to them?

5. Transformers: Age of Extinction is not an RPG, it's a third-person action game, why bring it here?

6. I am arguing only one thing (and was answering one question) - in STORY_DRIVEN RPGs the story is supposed - you know - DRIVE the game. If it does not do that, people get bored and quit - then the quality of the story is not good enough.

7. I'd say marketing, PR and huge success of previous game was the reason for more people to buy ME3. As for "bought the story game and complain about story" - I did the opposite - bought Skyrim and complained about absence of story, when I should not have expected any. So, yes, happens, but I doubt all of the quitters are like this.

8. See p.6. Success for the story is when story-consumers finish the story. If half of your budget is in the story but nobody bothers to look it through, you are making games of different genre and can fire half of your employers.



#60
Gileadan

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Aw, I would have preferred a chart with more data. Not just percentages, but actual nunber of players. Some games are played by a small, dedicated fanbase, which probably tends to produce higher completion rates. Some are bought on a steam sale, which will probably mean lower completion rates.

 

And some games don't coddle you to inevitable victory... if you mess up your character skills in Blackguards, for example, the game will eventually get so hard that many people won't feel like completing it. Games that are smooth sailing (like BioWare's) are likely to have a higher completion rate.



#61
SNascimento

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  1. "Writing failed miserably;"  Dark Souls 3 has a higher completion rate than ME2. And yet, I've never heard anyone praise DS3 for its amazing story, only for the combat. But, based on your logic, according to which the only reason for a higher completion rate is an "objectively" better story, DS3 has the best writing in AAA RPGs of the last decade.

I don't think it does. As I understand, DS3 has three different ending and each one counts to "completing the game". So it's overall numbers are inflated. It's true numbers are probably much closer to DS1 and DS2. 



#62
straykat

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DS is played through for the same reason Gran Turismo is. It has nothing to do with being an RPG. And more likely, people play single levels over again, just like people perfect playing through racing tracks (it's pretty much required anyways).



#63
Gwydden

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1. My bad! That was the answer to the claim from a different post, that stated "If I started 10 characters, and only played through to completion on 2 of them, I still saw the end game content."

 

3. We can not tell either way, true, though I would not expect from newcomers to franchise expect no story from RPG.

4. Not familiar with the game. Can it be more people like fantasy over sci-fi? And short engaging story is more attractive to them?

5. Transformers: Age of Extinction is not an RPG, it's a third-person action game, why bring it here?

6. I am arguing only one thing (and was answering one question) - in STORY_DRIVEN RPGs the story is supposed - you know - DRIVE the game. If it does not do that, people get bored and quit - then the quality of the story is not good enough.

7. I'd say marketing, PR and huge success of previous game was the reason for more people to buy ME3. As for "bought the story game and complain about story" - I did the opposite - bought Skyrim and complained about absence of story, when I should not have expected any. So, yes, happens, but I doubt all of the quitters are like this.

8. See p.6. Success for the story is when story-consumers finish the story. If half of your budget is in the story but nobody bothers to look it through, you are making games of different genre and can fire half of your employers.

3. I wouldn't either, but it clearly happens. I'm thinking some people do have much more money than I do and buy games on a whim, especially if they are on a discount.

4. But the ME series has overall better completion rates than DA or TW, so that doesn't seem to be the case. I'm also not familiar enough with DS to speculate with any degree of certainty, but I think it's as Straykat says: they're hardcore, combat-focused games that people finish to get gamer points for having beaten it.

5. I was talking about movies. My point is just that because many people like something that doesn't make it good. I was raising it as a counter to your claim that if more people finish the game, that must mean the story is better. I find that to be an excessive value placed on majority opinion.

6. Story-driven RPGs tend to be lackluster in every other area. I can't think of any story-driven RPG with particularly awesome combat, for example. They are also very long and that is bound to discourage the more casual players.

7. I doubt all of them are like that as well, but it wouldn't surprise me to learn that a significant portion is. Remember, many video games, not just RPGs, are abandoned by a considerable number of people after playing them very little or not at all. This is especially true when you consider multiplayer games are much more popular than single player ones. Most gamers are not really of a mindset that you need to "complete" a game.

8. Go back to my Endless Legend example. It is a strategy game where the goal is to beat your opponent(s) yet over 80% of the people who've bought it have never won a single game, which can only be for lack of trying because the lower difficulties are ridiculously easy and even a drunken snake could beat them. By your logic, Amplitude Studios are making games of a different genre and should fire half their employees.

Aw, I would have preferred a chart with more data. Not just percentages, but actual nunber of players. Some games are played by a small, dedicated fanbase, which probably tends to produce higher completion rates. Some are bought on a steam sale, which will probably mean lower completion rates.

 

And some games don't coddle you to inevitable victory... if you mess up your character skills in Blackguards, for example, the game will eventually get so hard that many people won't feel like completing it. Games that are smooth sailing (like BioWare's) are likely to have a higher completion rate.

This bears underlining, because I think it might explain many of the numbers on the list. DAO has slow, plodding and somewhat difficult combat, if you're not familiar with that particular type of gameplay. When I first tried playing it, ages ago, I got stuck because I couldn't beat any of the levels. Arl of Redcliffe? Bugged, for some reason, and even leaving that aside I found it difficult. Nature of the Beast? Couldn't get past the damn dragon in the entrance of the ruins. The Broken Circle? The Fade sequence got me stuck. A Paragon of Her Kind? Since I couldn't beat any of the other levels, the mercenaries you encountered early on absolutely destroyed my party.

 

I suspect the same thing goes for other games with tactical, party-based combat, like Divinity: Original Sin and Pillars of Eternity. Even for The Witcher, a series with lackluster tutorials and in which combat has an inverse difficulty curve. First time I tried TW2 I also gave up because every battle felt impossible to win, and in TW1 I couldn't figure out how the combat worked until after the prologue. DA2 and shooters like the ME games are easier to wrap one's head around, I imagine.


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#64
TheRatPack55

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DS is played through for the same reason Gran Turismo is. It has nothing to do with being an RPG. And more likely, people play single levels over again, just like people perfect playing through racing tracks (it's pretty much required anyways).

 

Actually, DS has a very interesting story, it's just that the gameplay is so good the story is not necessarily needed to make the games enjoyable overall, and it also allows the players to ignore the story altogether if they don't care much for reading item descriptions and analyzing the environment. But it's there, and it's pretty complex. If you are invested in it the ending choices are also very meaningful.  :P


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#65
slimgrin

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Hmmm. I doubt the accuracy of these stats. How can they know how much completion of a game takes place off line? 


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#66
Tantum Dic Verbo

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The romances are the story.


The drama about romances on BSN is the story.
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#67
Gwydden

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Hmmm. I doubt the accuracy of these stats. How can they know how much completion of a game takes place off line? 

They can't, so people who play off-line are not included. What is more, I just realized that if all of these statistics except Bioware's are taken from Steam achievements, games that can be played on other clients are underrepresented.

 

So, to summarize, these are highly unreliable statistics, and we can't make any assumptions as to the reasons behind them. That makes them pretty much useless.

 

EDIT: I just checked the linked article. The author did indeed pull them out from Steam achievements, except for Bioware's.



#68
AlanC9

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Btw, if people can not finish even Prologue, it means Skyrim misrepresented itself for any group of players.


It'd be nice if we could find some people from that 16% to tell us why they dropped the game, instead of just guessing. I'll bet a bunch of them never booted it up at all.

#69
UpUpAway95

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I don't think completion rates are necessarily connected to the quality of the story.  Quality does not necessarily equate to an ability to engage an audience at a particular point in time.  As good example given above was Citizen Kane.  Sometimes it's more about just hitting with the "right" story and the right time.

 

Some games are set up with minimal main story and lots of optional "filler" side content, so I'm not sure the stats for "completing" the main story only wound be comparable to a game where the main story was the bulk of the content.  To be more meaningful, the chart should also indicate what percentage of the content is required to be played to qualify as a "game completion."

 

Perhaps a better gauge of how engaging a game really is wouldn't be whether or not it is completed but how many hours overall individual players invest in just playing the game in single player mode.



#70
AlanC9

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They can't, so people who play off-line are not included. What is more, I just realized that if all of these statistics except Bioware's are taken from Steam achievements, games that can be played on other clients are underrepresented.


But the percentages would still be correct for the Steam players even if the GoG players aren't included. Probably a little bit different since the two playerbases are different, but it's unlikely that they'd be very different.

As for playing offline, it depends on how Steam is compiling stuff; AFAIK they haven't said what the denominator of those percentages is. Modern EA products shouldn't really have a problem with this, since opting-out is a data point in itself, and they know your Origin settings and connection history. But what EA knows and what EA tells us are two different things, naturally.

#71
AlanC9

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I suspect the same thing goes for other games with tactical, party-based combat, like Divinity: Original Sin and Pillars of Eternity. Even for The Witcher, a series with lackluster tutorials and in which combat has an inverse difficulty curve. First time I tried TW2 I also gave up because every battle felt impossible to win, and in TW1 I couldn't figure out how the combat worked until after the prologue. DA2 and shooters like the ME games are easier to wrap one's head around, I imagine.


I think you're right. FPS skills are highly-transferable. Just think of the biotic and tech powers as a kind of grenade or heavy weapon and you're there.

It works the same way for tactical party-based games too, but that taps a different skillset.

#72
maia0407

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Didn't see that.  'Scuse me while I chuckle very quietly in the corner over here...

It's also interesting to note that Fallout 4, which isn't exactly known for its quality writing, has a higher completion rate than The Witcher 3 despite being released about 6 months later.  :devil:


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#73
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It's also interesting to note that Fallout 4, which isn't exactly known for it's quality writing, has a higher completion rate than The Witcher 3 despite being released about 6 months later.  :devil:

 

Really?  Wow, I'm surprised given how adored TW3 seems to be.



#74
Gwydden

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But the percentages would still be correct for the Steam players even if the GoG players aren't included. Probably a little bit different since the two playerbases are different, but it's unlikely that they'd be very different.

As for playing offline, it depends on how Steam is compiling stuff; AFAIK they haven't said what the denominator of those percentages is. Modern EA products shouldn't really have a problem with this, since opting-out is a data point in itself, and they know your Origin settings and connection history. But what EA knows and what EA tells us are two different things, naturally.

My point is that there's barely any viable conclusion to be drawn from these statistics for many different reasons. One might be able to dismiss one or the other, but I'm afraid their validity is bound to suffer the death of a thousand paper cuts.

 

I'm skeptical about comparing the ones from Bioware to the others as they are not collected in the same way. Bioware also has the advantage of only using one client, which other games don't: in order to make a fair comparison between the completion rate of any given Bioware game versus any of The Witcher games you'd have to figure out the aggregate completion rate of the latter over Steam AND GOG (and I'm sure it'll be higher on GOG; the question is how much).

 

That's just ONE issue. Now consider the others I've mentioned. Games in general are often left unfinished, not just RPGs, for many reasons that have nothing to do with the quality of said games. So what I'm trying to do in this thread is discourage any conclusions drawn from the chart as the foundation is shaky at best. The idea that ME2 ought to be held at as some kind of paragon of RPGs or even Bioware games just because it seems as if more people chose to finish it doesn't sound like rock solid logic to me.

 

Of course, I'm a known elitist who feels nothing but contempt for popular opinion and thinks ME2 is massively overrated, but I assure you, I am being utterly impartial here  :P



#75
Barquiel

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I agree that completion rate is not necessarily indicative of quality. Generally the longer a main quest is, the less likely it is to be completed. I mean, according to Bioware the average completion time for ME2 was 33 hours. Now I have no idea how long The Witcher's 3 average completion time is, but I'm pretty sure it's more than 33 hours.