202 odpowiedzi w tym temacie

[DarkKnightHolmes]

Because you get the whole "oppressed" role. It's nice to see someone who's treated like garbage rise to save a kingdom owned by the very people who oppress them.

 

A human doing it for a human kingdom is just normal and nothing special.

[Arshei]

I think City Elves condition is worse than human and dwarf commoner, at least the human and casteless dwarves have own tradition, culture, identity and serve no other than their own race. They can raise their rank in their society. City Elf is a "race" that lost everything, only born to be human servant and human toy. They will never raise their rank ever.

 

You see, no human noble just happily barge in human commoner villages, kidnap brides and rape them...similarly no dwarf noble do the same in Dust Town, they even have breeders among commoners who want to rise their status should give birth to noble son...but City Elves is just sorry to say f***ed up, lower than the lowest society of any other "races"

 

I think that's make them a compelling "race" to choose than human and dwarf commoner.

 

Not at all, there is no difference between a human commoner and an elf commoner.

But a Dwarf commoner, that's another story, they are worth nothing, you can kill a casteless and nothing is going to happen to you, Elves are abused only by corrupt people, same as Human commoner can be abused, but they still have rights.

[Catilina]

City Elves who are mages are actually lucky being sent to the Circle...at least get free food, and they can raise their rank up to become the First Enchanter...they will never be like that in the Alieneage as normal City Elf...

I can't say anybody is "lucky" because of s/he "sent" to the Circle. They not be "sent" the mages into the Circle, but mostly moved by force, separated from his/her family. Remember Huon's case! Quite a few people can be happy to be prisoners for life (even if this a golden cage).

[Qis]

Not at all, there is no difference between a human commoner and an elf commoner.

But a Dwarf commoner, that's another story, they are worth nothing, you can kill a casteless and nothing is going to happen to you, Elves are abused only by corrupt people, same as Human commoner can be abused, but they still have rights.

 

City Elves are worst than human commoner, because their status is lower than human. they cannot be other than human servant and human toy.

 

Human commoner can be everything, just look at Lothering, there are a lot of human commoners, ad they are free...can get education, can work everywhere and be what they want. Look at Hawke.

 

Casteless only worthless in their own society, it don't prevent them to leave to the surface, they could become a successful businessmen, or whatever.

 

But City Elf can't eve leave the Alieneage, and they even worse then both above.

[Arshei]

I can't say anybody is "lucky" because of s/he "sent" to the Circle. They not be "sent" the mages into the Circle, but mostly moved by force, separated from his/her family. Remember Huon's case! Quite a few people can be happy to be prisoners for life.

 

Oh man... don't make it a discussion about the circle being good or bad...

 

 

City Elves are worst than human commoner, because their status is lower than human. they cannot be other than human servant and human toy.

 

Human commoner can be everything, just look at Lothering, there are a lot of human commoners, ad they are free...can get education, can work everywhere and be what they want. Look at Hawke.

 

Casteless only worthless in their own society, it don't prevent them to leave to the surface, they could become a successful businessmen, or whatever.

 

But City Elf can't eve leave the Alieneage, and they even worse then both above.

 

They can, but they have Stockholm syndrome. Even Pol says that in the Dalish elf origin, they just think that's the way life is, so they don't want to change it.

 

That's why everyone hates you if you kill Vaughan, you just ruined the relative peace they had at the moment, that bullshit Duncan says at the beginning about the City elves being "strong people", is that, bullshit.

[Zero]

Because there is an allure to roleplay the underdog. As DarkKnightHolmes said:
 

Because you get the whole "oppressed" role. It's nice to see someone who's treated like garbage rise to save a kingdom owned by the very people who oppress them.
 
A human doing it for a human kingdom is just normal and nothing special.

[Qis]

I can't say anybody is "lucky" because of s/he "sent" to the Circle. They not be "sent" the mages into the Circle, but mostly moved by force, separated from his/her family. Remember Huon's case! Quite a few people can be happy to be prisoners for life.

 

Huon is just batshit crazy like all Blood Mages in Kirkwal, and he kill his wife...but look at Orsino, he's the First Enchanter...and Leorah, senior enchanter in Ferelden...what i mean is City Elf have NO CHANCE to gain status as normal, only City Elf Mages can

[Catilina]

Oh man... don't make it a discussion about the circle being good or bad...

True, not. But this is a troll topic, I can also trolling...

[Qis]

They can, but they have Stockholm syndrome.

 

Where will they go? Dalish will shoot them first then asking question...human will reject them...they have no where to go than other Alieneages

[Catilina]

Huon is just batshit crazy like all Blood Mages in Kirkwal, and he kill his wife...but look at Orsino, he's the First Enchanter...and Leorah, senior enchanter in Ferelden...what i mean is City Elf have NO CHANCE to gain status as normal, only City Elf Mages can

I don't think, he would have gone crazy, if he do not live in the circle. 

[Qis]

I don't think, he would have gone crazy, if he do not live in the circle. 

 

In DA2, all Blood Mages except Hawke will become crazy...Merill is near crazy if not because of Hawke...

[Arshei]

True, not. But this is a troll topic, I can also trolling...

 

Touché.

 

 

Where will they go? Dalish will shoot them first then asking question...human will reject them...they have no where to go than other Alieneages

 

Dalish don't shoot them, look at Pol, did you talked to the elder man who prepares funeral in the Dalish elf origin? he says that even thought they don't respect the City elves, they are still elves and can join their clans.

----------

• Sarel: "Oh, I am certain we played a part in our downfall. We believed that the shemlen would not revoke their prophet's gift so lightly. We were wrong. They took our lands, forcing us to abandon our gods and live as beggars in shemlen cities."
• Sten: "You should have fought. You should have fought to the last of you. Better that than to submit."
• Sarel: "Oh? Is it not the Qunari way to force others to submit? Surely that would not be your advice to my people were they attacked by the mighty Qunari."
• Sten: "That would be different. The Qunari would improve your people. The humans have improved nothing."
• Sarel: "Perhaps. Even so, many of us did fight. We fought and we lost."

[Qis]

Dalish don't shoot them, look at Pol, did you talked to the elder man who prepares funeral in the Dalish elf origin? he says that even thought they don't respect the City elves, they are still elves and can join their clans.

 

Well if you talk to them, t5he other elf (forgot his name) say "i almost shoot you thinking you're human", and City Elf Warden is not as welcomed in the Dalish camp as Dalish Warden...i played City Elf Warden and i hate the Dalish for being unnecessary rude. There are dialogues from Dalish saying City Elf is no better than human, that's how racist they're even to their own kind.

 

Sarel and the other guy in Dalish origin are just propagandist talking about saving City Elves and bring them back, but the reality is they don't care

[Tidus]

Qis,Sure a CE mage can raise to first enchanter if she endures the beatings,possible rape or murder by the Templar thugs, and the risk of tranquility for any reason.

 

Arshei,There's several possible answers and ways  in playing a CE. The Dalish  will take in "flat ears"  but,they don't think highly of them.

 

In fact Lt.Mithra says tells the CE warden the flat ears is no better then their human masters.

[Qis]

Qis,Sure a CE mage can raise to first enchanter if she endures the beatings,possible rape or murder by the Templar thugs, and the risk of tranquility for any reason.

 

yes, but there is no other way for non-Mages City Elf ever...and still got raped in the wedding day...

[Catilina]

Where will they go? Dalish will shoot them first then asking question...human will reject them...they have no where to go than other Alieneages

It is simple not true. Look for example Lanaya and Feynriel (who is just half-elf... moreover: human!), and his mother...

[Qis]

It is simple not true. Look for example Lanaya and Feynriel (who is just half-elf... moreover: human!), and his mother...

 

Alright, they can go to Tevinter...and be sacrificed in Blood Magic ritual

[Arshei]

yes, but there is no other way for non-Mages City Elf ever...and still got raped in the wedding day...

 

Oh my, you really think that City elves has contantly to deal with rape?

Denerim was corrupt, Anora wanting power, Cailan being a buffoon, Howe scheming a lot of things, but for example, the Alienage of Kirkwall wasn't that bad, the Alienage of Highever seems to be the best Alienage of Ferelden, and the Alienages of Orlais Leliana said they are... pretty?

[Catilina]

Alright, they can go to Tevinter...and be sacrificed in Blood Magic ritual

The clan embraced him, and his mother. 

And Feynriel is not a slave in Tevinter, we know this, because Hawke received a letter from him (Your Hawkes maybe not, because I think, they sent Feynriel into the Circle, where he will be happy as Tranquil. Tranquils are very happy!)

[Inkvisiittori]

In one respect, I disagree. Hawke was the missing human commoner origin. at least for awhile.

 

And it's still different @ the person who somehow thinks it's the same and that elves should all be Dalish. *makes farting noises*

 

Hawke was in a unique position.. He/she could play up to nobility or try to act as a defender. Like the mission with Kelder.

 

On the flipside, the Arishok was sort of doing his own thing as well, and attracting city elves to the Qun. This is partly what Hawke and him clash over.. who is gonna be the better defender of forgotten folk like the city elves. Among other things.

 

Which brings me to another point. They are not all Andrastian. All elves are at a crossroads right now. Be it Andrastian or the Qun or being fools and following Solas. 

 

I've heard that before and always disagreed. Hawke was never a commoner. He always knew about the Amells. Leandra basically always had the option to return to Kirkwall with her kids, reclaim the estate and their heritage. They were just living like commoners because of Malcolm. It takes just 1 or 2 years after Hawke comes to Kirkwall that he is able to reclaim the estate and live like a lord. That would not be possible if he didn't have any noble relatives (then they would not have even let him into the city).

 

He has always been privileged even when they were poor and lived in Ferelden, because they always had that choice.  Choice to return to life of luxury and nobility if things got too difficult. That choice is the difference between Hawke and a true commoner. They have no such choice, no such privileges... they don't have a such a way out from their life - if things get difficult they must simply survive. If they want something better they have to work hard to earn it. And even that is more difficult for them - not many would hire nameless street rats or worse elves. The name Amell must open many doors to Hawke when he comes to Kirkwall (and even before that in Ferelden, where Amell family must have some old allies they can ask favors from). He always has that noble name if nothing else. 

[In Exile]

 

Touché.

 

 

 

Dalish don't shoot them, look at Pol, did you talked to the elder man who prepares funeral in the Dalish elf origin? he says that even thought they don't respect the City elves, they are still elves and can join their clans.

----------

• Sarel: "Oh, I am certain we played a part in our downfall. We believed that the shemlen would not revoke their prophet's gift so lightly. We were wrong. They took our lands, forcing us to abandon our gods and live as beggars in shemlen cities."
• Sten: "You should have fought. You should have fought to the last of you. Better that than to submit."
• Sarel: "Oh? Is it not the Qunari way to force others to submit? Surely that would not be your advice to my people were they attacked by the mighty Qunari."
• Sten: "That would be different. The Qunari would improve your people. The humans have improved nothing."
• Sarel: "Perhaps. Even so, many of us did fight. We fought and we lost."

 

But that's the irony of the conversation you quote. The Dalish force others to submit. Their advice to the CEs - those who want to leave the Alienage - is to abandon everything about themselves and become wholly Dalish. Pol constantly corrects himself with references to e.g. Andraste. Even if we take it for granted that it's totally voluntary he wants to convert in that way, I wouldn't exactly use this as a praiseworthy way of showing how the Dalish view CEs. They want to utterly erase their culture and absorb them into the Dalish way of life, at least, for those who they deem worthy enough to even be a part of it in the first place (e.g. those who risk death by starvation by fleeing the Alienage). 

 

Racial slur of Sarel's aside, it's also wonky logic. The people who agreed to secede land to them aren't the same as the ones who took it away. Drakon's descendants did, but that's only very particular cult of Andraste out of a whole bunch of different ones. One that, as far as we know, the Dales were perfectly OK with conquering the other human cultures. 

[Inkvisiittori]

But that's the irony of the conversation you quote. The Dalish force others to submit. Their advice to the CEs - those who want to leave the Alienage - is to abandon everything about themselves and become wholly Dalish. Pol constantly corrects himself with references to e.g. Andraste. Even if we take it for granted that it's totally voluntary he wants to convert in that way, I wouldn't exactly use this as a praiseworthy way of showing how the Dalish view CEs. They want to utterly erase their culture and absorb them into the Dalish way of life, at least, for those who they deem worthy enough to even be a part of it in the first place (e.g. those who risk death by starvation by fleeing the Alienage). 

 

Racial slur of Sarel's aside, it's also wonky logic. The people who agreed to secede land to them aren't the same as the ones who took it away. Drakon's descendants did, but that's only very particular cult of Andraste out of a whole bunch of different ones. One that, as far as we know, the Dales were perfectly OK with conquering the other human cultures. 

 

City Elves have no culture to erase. Most of them have been fully assimilated into andrastean culture. Why run off to the dalish in the first place if that is the culture they wish to live in? Why should dalish accept devoted andrastian city elves into their clans when it was the Chantry's holy army that destroyed the Dales in the name of the Maker? The dalish are just trying to protect their own way of life which has been dying ever since the Elvhenan was lost. If City Elves wish to live with the dalish they must accept their ways as their own and be productive part of the clan. 

[Hanako Ikezawa]

City Elves have no culture to erase. Most of them have been fully assimilated into andrastean culture. Why run off to the dalish in the first place if that is the culture they wish to live in? Why should dalish accept devoted andrastian city elves into their clans when it was the Chantry's holy army that destroyed the Dales in the name of the Maker? The dalish are just trying to protect their own way of life which has been dying ever since the Elvhenan was lost. If City Elves wish to live with the dalish they must accept their ways as their own and be productive part of the clan. 

The City Elves do have their own culture. It is a mixture of human culture and elven culture. 

[In Exile]

City Elves have no culture to erase. Most of them have been fully assimilated into andrastean culture. Why run off to the dalish in the first place if that is the culture they wish to live in? Why should dalish accept devoted andrastian city elves into their clans when it was the Chantry's holy army that destroyed the Dales in the name of the Maker? The dalish are just trying to protect their own way of life which has been dying ever since the Elvhenan was lost. If City Elves wish to live with the dalish they must accept their ways as their own and be productive part of the clan. 

That doesn't matter. I agree with Hanako on this point, but it doesn't matter even if City Elf culture is wholly Andrastian (and that's not exactly accurate - because each human culture would have their own approach). It's the hypocrisy: if you're going to object to the total erasure of a culture you grew up in, forcing others to give up their culture to join you is the same thing. 

 

You've given a pretty good reason for bigotry. Orlais had a bigoted reason too: the Dales invaded and burned Orlais. We still have no idea who the first aggressor was - whether Orlais struck and was crushed, or whether the Dales struck first. 

 

The Dalish have no ties to Elvhenan. That culture was broken by Solas, crushed by Tevinter, assimilated into oblivion, desperately and partially recreated in the Dales, and then broken again. That culture is dead. The culture the  Tevinter slaves had is dead. The culture the Dales had is dead. The CEs have their culture, the Dalish have their culture (which is obsessed with a particular historical narrative) but there's no consistent way of life being protected. The Dales were a city culture with nobles - the Dalish are nomads. That's a new way of life. 

 

If you think there are morally "right" circumstances for forcing others to abandon their culture and absolutely assimilate into your own, then the debate about what Orlais did wrong is just about whether they had a good enough cause to erase the Dales' culture, rather than it being wrong that they did it. 

[Inkvisiittori]

The City Elves do have their own culture. It is a mixture of human culture and elven culture. 

 

'A few rituals to distinguish themselves from the humans', is what Solas says.

 

If they are anything like the ethnic minorities of today each generation becomes more and more merged with the mainstream. Of course since humans don't actually accept elves as equals in their society and they are far more isolated from the rest of the society it may help them retain some cultural identity of their own.