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[In Exile]

What is given can be taken away.

Indeed, this was the problem with the Dales. It was given to them by humans - and then it was taken away from them once it became inconvenient. It was inevitable and they should have seen it coming. Maybe they did. Could explain why they reacted with such aggression to Orlais' provocations. They just wanted to live in peace, but the humans would not let them be. Maybe some of them wanted war... foolish young warriors to settle past insults. There is a lot of bad blood between humans and elves. And it continues to this day... that is not a problem that will be resolved peacefully. There can be no peace without justice. No compromise.

"In time, the human empires will crumble. Until then, we wait..."

So they wait. Next time they will not ask the humans for a permission to have their own nation - they will simply take it. They will not make the same mistake twice.

That's making the same mistake twice. They allowed Drakon to create an Empire around their border. If they were even remotely smart about it and wanted to maintain their power, allowing an empire to grow on their border is dumb. They made no alliances - they stood totally alone. Like Orlais. They ended up invading and sacking parts of Orlais, and we have no idea who struck first. What we do know is that for the first part of the war and until the Chantry got involved the Dales were winning the war. If they weren't practicing a racist form of isolationism by all accounts, they might have had the allies to crush Orlais then and there.

[IHaveReturned1999]

*chuckles to self* Why do people keep saying that the elves are racist against humans, where they're in no position of power to impact the lives of humans as a whole group of people, and the elves has every reason to hate humans anyways?? Cognitive dissonance is a b#tch ain't it?

[Xilizhra]

Hold on. You cannot both blame "humans" for treatment of elves but start start distinctions about what different groups of human did. Orlais didn't enslave the elves during the fall of post-Veil Elvhenan. Whatever issue existed between the elves and Tevinter has nothing to do with the humans around the Dales.

I believe you're now confusing me with other people in this conversation, as I didn't mention Tevinter there and never claimed that Andraste or her followers discriminated against elves.

[Inkvisiittori]

They allowed Drakon to create an Empire around their border. If they were even remotely smart about it and wanted to maintain their power, allowing an empire to grow on their border is dumb. They made no alliances - they stood totally alone. 

 

Agreed, that was their mistake. We do not know enough about that time to know what their reasoning was.

 

If they weren't practicing a racist form of isolationism by all accounts, they might have had the allies to crush Orlais then and there.

 

When Chantry declared holy war against the Dales every andrastian nation had to side with Orlais. Except maybe Tevinter. 

[Shechinah]

When Chantry declared holy war against the Dales every andrastian nation had to side with Orlais. Except maybe Tevinter. 

 

When the Chantry called for an Exalted March upon the Dales, Orlais was the only nation to provide troops.
 

[Steelcan]

*chuckles to self* Why do people keep saying that the elves are racist against humans, where they're in no position of power to impact the lives of humans as a whole group of people, and the elves has every reason to hate humans anyways?? Cognitive dissonance is a b#tch ain't it?

Its not racism if they deserve it!

[Steelcan]

That's making the same mistake twice. They allowed Drakon to create an Empire around their border. If they were even remotely smart about it and wanted to maintain their power, allowing an empire to grow on their border is dumb. They made no alliances - they stood totally alone. Like Orlais. They ended up invading and sacking parts of Orlais, and we have no idea who struck first. What we do know is that for the first part of the war and until the Chantry got involved the Dales were winning the war. If they weren't practicing a racist form of isolationism by all accounts, they might have had the allies to crush Orlais then and there.

we know the first act of the war proper was the Elven invasion of Orlais.  There's no mention of extended border conflict or forays by the Orlesians into the Dales until well after the Elven advance was turned back.

[Shechinah]

*chuckles to self* Why do people keep saying that the elves are racist against humans, where they're in no position of power to impact the lives of humans as a whole group of people, and the elves has every reason to hate humans anyways?? Cognitive dissonance is a b#tch ain't it?

 
Because institutional racism is not the only form for racism there is. An example of another form for racism would be individual racism as described below;
 
"Individual racism refers to an individual's racist assumptions, beliefs or behaviours and is "a form of racial discrimination that stems from conscious and unconscious, personal prejudice."

[Inkvisiittori]

When the Chantry called for an Exalted March upon the Dales, Orlais was the only nation to provide troops.
 

 

They were still formally on Orlais side. 

[Shechinah]

They were still formally on Orlais side. 

 

As evident by?
 

[Beerfish]

*chuckles to self* Why do people keep saying that the elves are racist against humans, where they're in no position of power to impact the lives of humans as a whole group of people, and the elves has every reason to hate humans anyways?? Cognitive dissonance is a b#tch ain't it?

Eh?  The Dalish, you know the free elves everyone adores are very racist vs humans.  As far as any race having a reason to hate another in dragon age,. you can say that about just about any and all races over a long period of time and be correct and be able to 'justify' it.

[Illegitimus]

IDK why you're against the idea of letting elves having a place of their own. They don't need humans to live it is humans who need them.

 

I'm pretty sure the humans really don't.  

[Xilizhra]

When the Chantry called for an Exalted March upon the Dales, Orlais was the only nation to provide troops.
 

This continues to baffle me, given that Orlais was presumably using said troops already if it was fighting a losing war.

[Illegitimus]

What is given can be taken away.

 

Indeed, this was the problem with the Dales. It was given to them by humans - 

 

You know what?  That's highly questionable.  During the Rebellion the elves were one of the two main forces fighting against Tevinter.  It's quite likely that the humans "gave" the elves the Dales the way the western allies "gave" Stalin Eastern Europe.  "Oh, you've taken that much territory?  Well I'm not going to fight to take it away from you."  It's possible there was some horsetrading where non contiguous bits of elf controlled land were traded for parts of the Dales but in general I'd guess the elves won the Dales by force of arms and then were "given" what they'd already won.  

[Steelcan]

This continues to baffle me, given that Orlais was presumably using said troops already if it was fighting a losing war.

presumably it opened up templars and mages from the Circles and Chantries in Orlais to join the fighting, and maybe ones from other areas as we, but I'm not sure if they'd count as Chantry troops or those of the nation that hosted them.

[Inkvisiittori]

As evident by?

 

Them not objecting in any way to what Orlais did to the elves. 

[Shechinah]

Them not objecting in any way to what Orlais did to the elves. 

 

So that the other nations decided to remain uninvolved in a war between two nations means that the former nations were formally on the side of one of the latter nations? So basically, this is based on that the other nations did nothing during the Exalted March to aid either side?
 

[Inkvisiittori]

So that the other nations decided to remain uninvolved in a war between two nations means that the former nations were formally on the side of one of the latter nations? So basically, this is based on that the other nations did nothing during the Exalted March to aid either side?

 

I was under the impression that when Chantry declares an Exalted March, all andrastian nations must answer the call or at least formally accept the cause. Maybe I am mistaken. 

[Shechinah]

I was under the impression that when Chantry declares an Exalted March, all andrastian nations must answer the call or at least formally accept the cause. Maybe I am mistaken. 

 

As far as I know, the Exalted March of the Dales is stated to be unique amongst the marches because only one nation responded so that would suggest that the other nations stayed out of it. I'd have to track down the exact evidence to see the wording for myself but that'll have to wait until I have time. 
 

[Inkvisiittori]

As far as I know, the Exalted March of the Dales is stated to be unique amongst the marches because only one nation responded so that would suggest that the other nations stayed out of it. I'd have to track down the exact evidence to see the wording for myself but that'll have to wait until I have time. 

 

That's very interesting, because what if the Chantry, for example, declared an Exalted March against the Inquisition and some nations (like Ferelden and Nevarra) directly opposed this and would side with the Inquisition instead? Would they have to separate themselves from the Orlaisian Chantry (like the Tevinter Imperium did)?

[IHaveReturned1999]

Because institutional racism is not the only form for racism there is. An example of another form for racism would be individual racism as described below;

"Individual racism refers to an individual's racist assumptions, beliefs or behaviours and is "a form of racial discrimination that stems from conscious and unconscious, personal prejudice."

That's not true if humans are murdering elves, put them in desolate areas, and you call the elves racist for elves hating humans despite what they have done to them? That definition is entirely inaccurate don't you think?

[IHaveReturned1999]

Eh? The Dalish, you know the free elves everyone adores are very racist vs humans. As far as any race having a reason to hate another in dragon age,. you can say that about just about any and all races over a long period of time and be correct and be able to 'justify' it.

That's like saying: "Yeah we killed your people, raped your women, and hunt your people like animals. But you people are racists for fighting back and hating us for ***king you hard in the ass with no Vaseline."

[Alex Hawke]

@OP. Because the unique experience of intersectional discrimination is fun. Some Dalish detest the CE for being themselves (not being "elfy" enough or/and not wanting to be), some humans dislike them for having pointy ears (appearance). The thing is that the thing you cannot control (be it the form of ears or, let's say, sexual orientation) doesn't automatically set your world view. And the CE do have the culture of their own, even if it takes a lot from both Andrastian and Dalish (simplified) ones.

[Steelcan]

That's very interesting, because what if the Chantry, for example, declared an Exalted March against the Inquisition and some nations (like Ferelden and Nevarra) directly opposed this and would side with the Inquisition instead? Would they have to separate themselves from the Orlaisian Chantry (like the Tevinter Imperium did)?

well I can't see them ever declaring one on the Inquisition to begin with

[Inkvisiittori]

well I can't see them ever declaring one on the Inquisition to begin with

 

That was just example, like I said.