34 réponses à ce sujet

[Arshei]

We only know of two Grey wardens who were able to prolong their lives.

Fiona and Avernus

 

Replaying Dragon Age:Origin, I noticed this dialogue:

 

"Your soul is mine Avernus"

 

That is were Anders enter to the game

If he died during Awkening, then the "Anders" we know in DA:2 is Justice the whole time, acting like Anders, or at least using his memories and personality, so unless it is a plot hole, Abominations can be good actors.

 

- "David Gaider stated that Anders being merged with Justice may have one of the two effects on his Calling: "One is that the spirit within Anders can affect the level of his corruption, so it may delay or remove the necessity for his Calling altogether. Either that or at some point the corruption within Anders is going to corrupt the spirit." He refused to tell which one the writers prefer due to the possibility of Anders appearing in future games."

 

We don't know if Fiona is an abomination, since we have little content of her, but we know she is stupid, and since she is an elf, she is crazy, so it wouldn't be estrange to think she is an abomination, maybe not a dangerous abomination like Wynne, but still.

[ArcadiaGrey]

We don't know if Fiona is an abomination, since we have little content of her, but we know she is stupid, and since she is an elf, she is crazy, so it wouldn't be estrange to think she is an abomination, maybe not a dangerous abomination like Wynne, but still.

 

What?  Why on earth would you suppose that.

 

And Anders death is a rumour, not fact.  So you get the real Anders in DA2 no matter what.

[Arshei]

What?  Why on earth would you suppose that.

 

And Anders death is a rumour, not fact.  So you get the real Anders in DA2 no matter what.

 

"But you died, I saw the body, and the arrow in the neck"

 

 

You even see his dead body if you let the Vigil get destroyed in Awkening.

---------

Zevran, Merrill, Fenris, Solas, Sera, Orsino, Shianni, Velanna, which elf of the game isn't crazy?

[Catilina]

"Could the cure for the taint of a Grey Warden is becoming an abomination?"

Abomination or not, Anders still seems tainted, because he heard Corypheus' false calling as the other Grey Wardens.

But this video was interesting, I never saw before, because Anders was always in main group in the Awakening, then he don't died in my worlds.

It seems pretty big stupidity, because if he was dead in the fortress, and later alive, then Hawke can't kill him with a knife ... It Means: Anders can/will be back in the next DA... likely.

 

Zevran, Merrill, Fenris, Solas, Sera, Orsino, Shianni, Velanna, which elf of the game isn't crazy?

I not see, that this elves are "crazy"...

[ArcadiaGrey]

"But you died, I saw the body, and the arrow in the neck"

 

 

You even see his dead body if you let the Vigil get destroyed in Awkening.

---------

Zevran, Merrill, Fenris, Solas, Sera, Orsino, Shianni, Velanna, which elf of the game isn't crazy?

 

It was the body of another mage, not Anders.  The epilogue slides were confirmed to be rumours, not the truth.

 

Plenty of elves aren't crazy, but I can't be bothered to take the bait...so whatever.   /shrug

[Catilina]

It was the body of another mage, not Anders.  The epilogue slides were confirmed to be rumours, not the truth.

 

Plenty of elves aren't crazy, but I can't be bothered to take the bait...so whatever.   /shrug

Of course, it was likely the body of another mage. Nevertheless Nathaniel's and also Anders' reaction in video was interesting and even the assumption.

[Zero]

According to Avernus research, the Taint is anathema to demons. The Taint can create its own source of magic, Blight Magic, that draw its power from the darkspawn's (or Grey Warden) corruption instead of the Fade and is akin Blood Magic. That's is why he was able to combat demons for so long in Soldier's Keep. The demon you posted in that pic is the one who possessed Sophia Dryden's corpse, it has nothing to do with Avernus. 

 

Demons do not know about Blight Magic, and in the Fade demons and spirits can be corrupted by the Taint as well, that's why they avoid been near the Black City in the first place. I don't think that becoming an abomination is going to cure the Calling (in fact, I believe this also answers Anders' dilemma).

 

Fiona stuff has nothing to do with she being a mage. She was cured by our friendly darkspawn-magister The Architect. The guy is able to use Blight Magic to the fullest to do crazy stuff, like creating the Disciples, intelligent darkspawn freed from the call of the Old Gods. If a cure of the Calling can be found, I guess The Architect already did it. Too bad DAI writers did their best to ignore what happened in Awakening...

[Melbella]

Did he though? The amulets didn't cure the taint....they made it spread faster. Duncan wasn't affected because of that gizmo he stole which counteracted it (said gizmo might be worthy of study for such effects, if it could ever be found again). As for creating intelligent darkspawn free of the Old God call, that uses Warden blood, which Wardens already have, so it doesn't seem like his concoction would help them at all. Also, are we sure that curing the Calling is meant to remove the taint completely (thus creating ex-Wardens en masse) or just prevent the Calling part of it so Wardens don't lose their minds and turn into ghouls?

[In Exile]

Did he though? The amulets didn't cure the taint....they made it spread faster. Duncan wasn't affected because of that gizmo he stole which counteracted it (said gizmo might be worthy of study for such effects, if it could ever be found again). As for creating intelligent darkspawn free of the Old God call, that uses Warden blood, which Wardens already have, so it doesn't seem like his concoction would help them at all. Also, are we sure that curing the Calling is meant to remove the taint completely (thus creating ex-Wardens en masse) or just prevent the Calling part of it so Wardens don't lose their minds and turn into ghouls?

 

More importantly, the Calling so far is the only thing that's preventing the darkspawn from a genocide of all live and turning Thedas into a wasteland (apart from the thinking darkspawn deciding that they'd like to spend their entire existence in the Deep Roads and slowly die out due to accidents). Darkspawn are effectively unstoppable once they launch a Crusade - winning involves the desperate hope they'll stop their massacre. That's actually a big plot-hole in DA:A - that the darkspawn spot without the Mother. That's ignoring the fact that these are rape abominations. 

 

You end up with an immortal army of self-aware, intelligent rape abominations whose very existence poisons the land and who don't require food to survive, so have no logistics. Every member of their abominable race is a warrior, and they need a constant stream of kidnapping victims to violate to keep up their numbers. 

 

Thinking darkspawn are an incredible threat to Thedas. 

[Zero]

More importantly, the Calling so far is the only thing that's preventing the darkspawn from a genocide of all live and turning Thedas into a wasteland (apart from the thinking darkspawn deciding that they'd like to spend their entire existence in the Deep Roads and slowly die out due to accidents). Darkspawn are effectively unstoppable once they launch a Crusade - winning involves the desperate hope they'll stop their massacre. That's actually a big plot-hole in DA:A - that the darkspawn spot without the Mother. That's ignoring the fact that these are rape abominations. 

 

You end up with an immortal army of self-aware, intelligent rape abominations whose very existence poisons the land and who don't require food to survive, so have no logistics. Every member of their abominable race is a warrior, and they need a constant stream of kidnapping victims to violate to keep up their numbers. 

 

Thinking darkspawn are an incredible threat to Thedas. 

 

 

The Calling stops the darkspawn to destroy the world because darkspawn are un-intelligent creatures that only think about killing and eating. They are like animals, clever and cunning, but not really intelligent. When they are "awakened" they are not only freed from the call of the Old Gods, but they also gained intelligence, and with intelligence also came self-awareness and free will.

 

Yeah, there are Disciples that still acted like the normal darkspawn: evil and vicious, killing everything alive on sight (the Mother and her faction being the prime examples), but there are others who chose not to be like that. The Architect faction is an example of that: even if you killed the Architect, his faction did not retaliate, choosing instead to fight the other darkspawn and not attack the surface or Orzammar. Others became good even without the Architect influence, like the Messenger, who began to help people and actually do good stuff in Amaranthine because he wanted to, regardless if he was a darkspawn or not. 

 

That's why the "awakening" was not a plot-hole until it was ignored in DAI, because, yes, intelligent darkspawn are dangerous, but the also are self-aware and free willed, and can choose not to be dangerous.

 

 

 Also, are we sure that curing the Calling is meant to remove the taint completely (thus creating ex-Wardens en masse) or just prevent the Calling part of it so Wardens don't lose their minds and turn into ghouls?

 

IIRC, they did not lose the corruption. There were mages in the ranks of the Disciples, meaning they still were able to do Blight Magic, that comes from the Taint (instead of the Fade). And the Messenger was still spreading the Taint in the places he helped people. They only lose that part that connects them to the "hive mind" of the Old Gods.

[In Exile]

The Calling stops the darkspawn to destroy the world because darkspawn are un-intelligent creatures that only think about killing and eating. They are like animals, clever and cunning, but not really intelligent. When they are "awakened" they are not only freed from the call of the Old Gods, but they also gained intelligence, and with intelligence also came self-awareness and free will.

 

Yeah, there are Disciples that still acted like the normal darkspawn: evil and vicious, killing everything alive on sight (the Mother and her faction being the prime examples), but there are others who chose not to be like that. The Architect faction is an example of that: even if you killed the Architect, his faction did not retaliate, choosing instead to fight the other darkspawn and not attack the surface or Orzammar. Others became good even without the Architect influence, like the Messenger, who began to help people and actually do good stuff in Amaranthine because he wanted to, regardless if he was a darkspawn or not. 

 

That's why the "awakening" was not a plot-hole until it was ignored in DAI, because, yes, intelligent darkspawn are dangerous, but the also are self-aware and free willed, and can choose not to be dangerous.

 

That's totally false. Apart from the fact that the Mother almost exterminated Amaranthine and the surrounding region for crazy reasons, the Architect's faction was monstrous and sadistic. They exterminated an entire Dalish clan for shits and giggles, and then manipulated Velanna into persecuting a race war. The Messenger is the only darkspawn we see not actively being evil, and this thing actively spreads the blight - turn men (and women!!!) into ghouls, many of whom will die in the Deep Roads or be violated into brood mothers. That's an awful fate - it's so much worse  than anything that it could possibly have saved these people from. 

 

And that's ignoring all the awful things the Architect does - including the first massacre of Vigil's Keep, the experiments on the HOF, and starting the 4th Blight. But let's focus on Vigil, because that's far the worst. The Architect says that it didn't order it, his darkspawn just did it on their own. But that makes it so much worse! 

 

Free will isn't a comfort. We exterminate the **** out of each other all the time. Our vaunted free will doesn't stop us from killing. The danger of darkspawn comes directly from the fact that they're exactly like humans. That simple, single assumption makes them an awful threat. They'll kill each other if they're humans - so they'll need to constantly kidnap women to violate them to make brood mothers so they have more darkspawn. They'll need human farms for Grey Warden blood to create more awakened. They'll start wars and fight because they'll want land, or disagree with politics. 

[Zero]

Well, those are the risks of free will. However, the Disciples demonstrated they aren't a threat (not one bigger that the main darkspawn horde or the Qun, that is) when they chose to go to the Deep Roads instead of attacking the surface or Orzammar.

[Melbella]

It's too bad we don't learn about how he started the 5th Blight until after we've already agreed to let him help vs the Mother. I imagine some WCs making it their personal mission to kill him later as a result of finding that out.

[vertigomez]

I don't know. I'm not exactly keen on examining Anders's... Taint.

[Catilina]

Well, those are the risks of free will. However, the Disciples demonstrated they aren't a threat (not one bigger that the main darkspawn horde or the Qun, that is) when they chose to go to the Deep Roads instead of attacking the surface or Orzammar.

Interesting question. This is why one of my worlds the Architect alive. I'm curious how to continue...

[Catilina]

I don't know. I'm not exactly keen on examining Anders's... Taint.

But interesting ...

[Arshei]

I don't know. I'm not exactly keen on examining Anders's... Taint.

 

Ohh shut up sassy gay Hawke, we know you want to examine Anders in other areas of his body.

[ModernAcademic]

Did he though? The amulets didn't cure the taint....they made it spread faster. Duncan wasn't affected because of that gizmo he stole which counteracted it (said gizmo might be worthy of study for such effects, if it could ever be found again). As for creating intelligent darkspawn free of the Old God call, that uses Warden blood, which Wardens already have, so it doesn't seem like his concoction would help them at all. Also, are we sure that curing the Calling is meant to remove the taint completely (thus creating ex-Wardens en masse) or just prevent the Calling part of it so Wardens don't lose their minds and turn into ghouls?

 

It would help because in the event of a future Blight, the darkspawn would no longer launch an attack on the surface. In fact, they wouldn't bother attacking people at all, Blight or no. 

 

The only reason why they come to the surface in hordes is because the Archdemon orders them to through the Calling.

 

Eliminate the Calling, have a spiritual leader like the Architect teaching them to remain underground and the darkspawn are a much more manageable threat. Who knows, the dwarves might even be able to recover some of their lost thaigs again.

[animedreamer]

Didn't Avernus extend his life with Blood Magic, that's not really the same as becoming a abomination, which requires you to allow a fade spirit to possess your body, assuming your a person who they'd want to ride around in/merge with. Spirits tend to want mages because they can exude their will over the physical world much like the spirits can in the fade.

[In Exile]

Well, those are the risks of free will. However, the Disciples demonstrated they aren't a threat (not one bigger that the main darkspawn horde or the Qun, that is) when they chose to go to the Deep Roads instead of attacking the surface or Orzammar.

Except for the fact that they're horrible rape abominations who poison the land by existing. It's absolutely a bigger threat than the Qun. The most that the Qun could do is form a terrible dictatorship across the globe. The worst the darkspawn can do is erase all non-darkspawn life, turn the world into a wasteland that doesn't support life, and turn all or most women in monsters after "violating" them. That's... awful. And they do a lot of that largely by existing. 

 

Saying that the Disciplies showed they aren't a threat by not exterminating all life on Thedas right away is a bit like saying the Qun aren't a threat simply because they aren't currently invading THedas. 

[Zero]

Except for the fact that they're horrible rape abominations who poison the land by existing. It's absolutely a bigger threat than the Qun. The most that the Qun could do is form a terrible dictatorship across the globe. The worst the darkspawn can do is erase all non-darkspawn life, turn the world into a wasteland that doesn't support life, and turn all or most women in monsters after "violating" them. That's... awful. And they do a lot of that largely by existing. 

 

Saying that the Disciplies showed they aren't a threat by not exterminating all life on Thedas right away is a bit like saying the Qun aren't a threat simply because they aren't currently invading THedas. 

 

 

But there are Disciples wanting to stop the Blights or the non-awakened darkspawn. Yeah, granted, some of them are evil. But not all of them. All of them spread the Taint, yeah. But that isn't their fault. They don't do it willingly, is something they were born with. Instead, all of them retreated to the Deep Roads (even the evil ones, seeing their absence in Inquisition), far beyond even the reach of the dwarves, willingly avoiding the spread of the corruption, meaning they are aware of their nature and don't want to contaminate the surface.

 

As for the broodmothers, the non-awakened darkspawn are the responsible for them, not the Disciples. And thanks to the Mother they know is pointless to awaken broodmothers (their offspring will be the aberrant Children, not new awakened darkspawn), so there is no point in creating intelligent broodmothers to begin with. Broodmothers are for the non-awakened darkspawn to blame, not the Disciples. 

 

And, if you side with the Architect, his faction help the Grey Wardens against the non-awakened darkspawn, showing their will to help stop the Blights (those are the "the Warden's allies" Nathaniel mentions in DA2 in his quest).

 

[Melbella]

Nate mentions those allies whether the Architect is alive or killed. It's not been revealed who, exactly, he was talking about.

[In Exile]

But there are Disciples wanting to stop the Blights or the non-awakened darkspawn. Yeah, granted, some of them are evil. But not all of them. All of them spread the Taint, yeah. But that isn't their fault. They don't do it willingly, is something they were born with. Instead, all of them retreated to the Deep Roads (even the evil ones, seeing their absence in Inquisition), far beyond even the reach of the dwarves, willingly avoiding the spread of the corruption, meaning they are aware of their nature and don't want to contaminate the surface.

 

As for the broodmothers, the non-awakened darkspawn are the responsible for them, not the Disciples. And thanks to the Mother they know is pointless to awaken broodmothers (their offspring will be the aberrant Children, not new awakened darkspawn), so there is no point in creating intelligent broodmothers to begin with. Broodmothers are for the non-awakened darkspawn to blame, not the Disciples. 

 

And, if you side with the Architect, his faction help the Grey Wardens against the non-awakened darkspawn, showing their will to help stop the Blights (those are the "the Warden's allies" Nathaniel mentions in DA2 in his quest).

 

A "Blight" is just a massive army of darkspawn. This is expressly covered in the Codex. Mass enough darkspawn and you get the poisoned land, the blackened sky - everything that comes with why it's called a "Blight". With the Awakened, you don't need an archdemon to have a blight. The Mother's army was, basically a Blight. They want to kill archdemons, but frankly we don't even know if killing archdemons - rather than preserving their souls via something like the Dark Ritual - is the outcome we want to have, Grey Warden propaganda notwithstanding here. 

 

It doesn't matter that they spread their plague involuntarily. They spread it. There's no way to stop it. It's also not their "fault" that they reproduce through the most horrific forms of rape (whether literal or metaphorical) that we can imagine. But they do it. They have a lot that's intrinsic to their nature that, from the POV of any non-darkspawn, is just evil. 

 

We don't know if the Architect has broodmothers. But that's not my point. My point is that if Disciples - and again, the very fact that you have to separate them from the other mad genocidal bunch of darkspawn that self-started a Blight is the clearest argument for their never-ending threat - don't want to be wiped out from existence by the sheer passage of time, they need to kidnap women. Because accidents happen, and they can die for any manner of random reasons. And that's assuming they have a perfectly utopian society that's completely free of all crime and war, so their only deaths are from accidents. The Mother - an awakened darkspawn - absolutely has broodmothers. Not to mention that the Architect created Awakened brood mothers! Maybe he won't do it again - but maybe some other darkspawn will. 

 

They're a greater danger intelligent than not. Without their intelligence they're a force of nature. With it, they're many times worse. They have strategy on a scale they don't with the archdemon. The best solution we have so far is, rather than killing archdemons, preserving the soul so that we have more darkspawn bait. Not making them thinking so they can get their Do-It-Yourself-Apocalypse going on. 

 

And Nathaniel's dialogue is the same regardless of who you side with - I've always exterminated the Architect and he always says the same thing about "Allies". 

[TheKomandorShepard]

*chop*

I agree with it completely.

 

I would also add that with intelligence desire to conquer and expand would also show up.Awakened darkspawn regardless of side were shown to be extremely ruthless and brutal, even the messenger that could be considered nicest of the bunch was ready to burn Amaranthine to the gorund just because Architect told him.Honestly, i can't see any basis for peace here.Even humans have to often struggle with war and humans are tame compared to darkspawn.

[Aren]

snip

-Not all the darkspawn hear the calling since this is influenced by the proximity position with the prisons.

 

-There is nothing that indicates that the awakening is permanent rather than a temporary state that endure so long that the blood used retain the immunity which happen to be a temporary condition for the GW same should be for those who use that blood.

 

-In so far killing 5 souls of old gods did not caused troubles for the stability of the world

(No Earthquakes,storms or any other apocalyptic disaster)which seem to indicate that their soul doesn't possess a key meaning for the existence of the universe  remove it from the hands of two crazy witches and two elven gods

(one of whom is currently committed to capitalize raw power to remove the veil)  is more of a priority compared to the other guesses.