199 ответов в этой теме

[PhroXenGold]

For me its a no brainer..After reading "Asunder"   I have no love or respect for those thug Templars. In DA:I they sealed their fated when that Templar thug showed the Templars true colors in Val Royeaux. I enjoyed watching the avalanches that took out probably hundreds of Templar thugs.  

 

Once again all of my wardens just kills the baddies Vaughan,Howe,the slaver, Loghain and the AD. All three agrees to Morrigan DR and my female wardens talks Alistair into doing it.

 

The reason is simple..All three knows and understands dying for nothing means shite.

 

Yet you'd risk letting all those who died to stop the blight die for nothing by preserving the soul of the very thing that caused said blight. And you'd throw away an extremely valuable resource in the form of Loghain thus reducing your chances of actually defeating the Darkspawn in the first place (and hence, again, letting all those who fought against it die for nothing)....

 

As for Asunder, well, the mages don't come out of that much better than the Templars. There are a some decent people on both sides, but overall they deserve each other.

[Qis]

I miss the murder knife scenes....

 

Soldier : "Help me please..."

Warden : "We don't have time for this, let's go"

Alistair : "You don't have time?..."

Warden : "He's already dead, see?" (murder knife)

[Catilina]

Yet you'd risk letting all those who died to stop the blight die for nothing by preserving the soul of the very thing that caused said blight. And you'd throw away an extremely valuable resource in the form of Loghain thus reducing your chances of actually defeating the Darkspawn in the first place (and hence, again, letting all those who fought against it die for nothing)....

 

As for Asunder, well, the mages don't come out of that much better than the Templars. There are a some decent people on both sides, but overall they deserve each other.

Of course, there are good and bad on both sides, but it can not be said to "deserve each other." One of them was his own decision to become a prison guard, the other never had a choice.

[BloodKaiden]

Murder knife should return, only scene we got for it in DAI was Morrigan killing Abelas. She made me so proud, I HC'd it as her taking a page out of my Warden's handbook.

[Captain Wiseass]

Literally deciding who lives and who dies wasn't edgy enough for you? OK.

[Elyunha]

I too missed the range of choices, it is after all a role playing game. My main char usually does what I would do, thus often ends up being the "saint", but I love playing characters of all different stripes. That's why DA:O is my favorite game in the franchise to this day. I could really immerse myself in the world and the lore, I could adjust my views according to the character I was playing (still keeping my sanity and moral the same(for anyone who even thinks people who do so can't separate reality from fantasy)) because there were so many ways you could affect the world around you and it felt real, connected.

 

In DA:I, as much as I generally loved the game, I didn't feel any special connections to any characters(not even my own, I just made a predetermined character look like my own), between any characters in game(except for Dorian, bloody well written char!) or the world's dynamic. There were no dramatic changes in events or choices; you could be a bit of a douche, but other than that, there was no range between what kind of inquisitor one wanted to be, be it then the saint or the tyrant. There were no children in the world, no differences in the sizes of people, it was all very shallow, and deprived the game of the same kind of level of immersion as DA:O had (though the world looked stunning!! Kudos for that). Having the games slogan as "Lead them or Fall" was a bit misleading. I'd rather compare DA:I to Game of Thrones and The Lord of the Rings than, like, some Disney adaptation, so I hope DA:4 will take the franchise back to its darker roots. Just my opinion though, as I said, I've generally loved playing the games still.

 

Oh, and PS. the world choices could've been implemented better to feel like a continuation of the first two games. Now, even though I understand that 10 years has passed since DA:O, I still feel Bioware missed many opportunities, that would've otherwise had much potential concerning the connection to the past. Many choices in the Keep were totally unnecessary in the end, I wasted a lot of time the first times I built world states, cause I thought all choices had consequences, now I just adjust those I know have some impact on the game. So having that addressed in DA:4 would also be cool!

 

But thank you for reading this novel. xD Now I return to my cave. *tips fedora*

[Kabraxal]

I wouldn't mind some more tough choices like Connor or the werewolves/Elves or the Golems... but some of those "disturbing" choices in Origins only worked if you were roleplaying an insane psychopathic idiot.  It felt very off with someone trying to actually build an army to fight the Darkspawn and was murder knifing people for no good reason.  It would have been nice if they had an ending where you got eaten by the Archdemon and the slide simply said "Since Timmy was bloodthirsty mad man, no one rallied to his cause and the Archdemon had a nice appetizer before dining on the whole of Ferelden for a hundred years" if you chose too many of those actions. 

[straykat]

I wouldn't mind some more tough choices like Connor or the werewolves/Elves or the Golems... but some of those "disturbing" choices in Origins only worked if you were roleplaying an insane psychopathic idiot.  It felt very off with someone trying to actually build an army to fight the Darkspawn and was murder knifing people for no good reason.  It would have been nice if they had an ending where you got eaten by the Archdemon and the slide simply said "Since Timmy was bloodthirsty mad man, no one rallied to his cause and the Archdemon had a nice appetizer before dining on the whole of Ferelden for a hundred years" if you chose too many of those actions. 

 

It's even worse that there are no consequences, even on a minor level, in DAI. Redcliffe still builds you a statue and Cass still wanted any Warden as an Inquisitor (and Leliana, no less).

[myahele]

It depend on whether or not the next protagonist will be forced into a "good" role ala being the Herald of Adraste.

[Kabraxal]

It's even worse that there are no consequences, even on a minor level, in DAI. Redcliffe still builds you a statue and Cass still wanted any Warden as an Inquisitor (and Leliana, no less).

 

I really wish we could have had Leliana grunting in disgust every time the Warden is mentioned or some nod to how she was killed in Origins by that Warden.  I'm guessing the insane warden run just didn't even register in any stats and Bioware chose to focus time and effort on other areas. 

[In Exile]

In order to prevent the dominant religion from becoming even more powerful. That was, in fact, the motivation of one of my Wardens who killed Genitivi. I'm not claiming any moral high ground for that, but it is a pragmatic rationale.

Or to prevent the unworthy others from desecrating a holy site.

[Arshei]

In order to prevent the dominant religion from becoming even more powerful. That was, in fact, the motivation of one of my Wardens who killed Genitivi. I'm not claiming any moral high ground for that, but it is a pragmatic rationale.

 

Yep, my character killed Genitivi because he didn't wanted the chantry having the power of resurrecting everyone they want.

 

Same as killing Connor, if you listen to Wynne she says that when you cure abominations going to the fade, the person is never the same, and in Inquisition Connor is an emo so I think she was right, besides, going to the circle and returning to redcliff takes more than a month, I refuse to believe time stopped in Redcliff and the demon in Connor didn't killed other citizens

[Zero]

There is no point in killing Genitivi other than for the sake of being evil.

 

Have you seen how cringeworthy, exaggerated and funny that death is? You have to kill him at least once, even if afterwards you reload the game and let him live.

 

But yeah, I concede the point. Killing Genitivi is only for the sake of pure evilness.

[Catilina]

Yep, my character killed Genitivi because he didn't wanted the chantry having the power of resurrecting everyone they want.

 

Same as killing Connor, if you listen to Wynne she says that when you cure abominations going to the fade, the person is never the same, and in Inquisition Connor is an emo so I think she was right, besides, going to the circle and returning to redcliff takes more than a month, I refuse to believe time stopped in Redcliff and the demon in Connor didn't killed other citizens

It does not seem logical. Neither benign.

[Tidus]

Gold, Loghain is a monster and needed to be put down-you don't coddle a mad man. You eliminate him.

 

Right,Mages made Templars  tranquil for little or no reason.. Mages beat,murder and raped Templars. 

 

The Templar thugs  couldn't wait to rush out to kill mages, the tranquil, and everybody they thought was a mage.

 

Templars are thugs that got by with anything because the Seekers always blamed the mages. Cassandra  said the Seekers failed to see the problem.

 

Under those conditions I support the mages.

 

I rescue the Greys and recruit them into the Inquisition since they was under mind control and some was fighting against the ritual at Adamant.

 

You have to take in the whole picture and make a solid decision based on the facts. Again the thugs refused to talk at Val Royeaux and again when you speak to the Lord Seeker on Cassandra's quest.

[Arshei]

It does not seem logical. Neither benign.

 

It isn't logical preventing the chantry for getting a powerful weapon?

 

Is not benign giving Morrigan an old god baby but you did anyway because you didn't wanted to die. No Hero of Ferelden is benign.

[Gervaise]

Would point out that the mages weren't perfect either.    They abandoned the tranquil.   If anyone was deserving of compassion it was them.     Those that followed them to Redcliffe they let Alexius kick them out and then they were used for a horrific ritual.  

 

The mages were given the sanctuary of Redcliffe Castle by the monarch of Ferelden, having persuaded their people that they should give them their support.   As such, if they had stood by Teagan, they could have expected the protection of the Crown if the Templars attacked, particularly if Connor is alive.   Redcliffe is said to be the most defensible castle on all Ferelden.   Rhys reckoned they could have held out for weeks in a ruin like Andoral's Reach, so they could easily have lasted for months in Redcliffe Caste.  

 

Instead they sold out the monarch and the people of Ferelden by ejecting Teagan and handing over the castle to a Tevinter Magister, thus putting the most defensible fortification in Ferelden in the hands of a hostile foreign power.    After all their high minded sentiments about wanting freedom for mages, they allowed themselves to be indentured to Tevinter, but essentially with the intent of eventually becoming citizens of a country that runs on slavery.   It is precisely the fear of mages taking over and enslaving them that drives the hostility of most ordinary folk in Thedas, plus misuse of magic, particularly blood magic.    

 

In Asunder, it is made clear that Lambert's prejudice against mages is founded on his actual experience of betrayal by the mage who became the Black Divine.     Then he discovers the southern Divine has authorised secret magical research, resulting in the many deaths of innocent people, precisely because it wasn't being properly monitored.   Nevertheless he agrees to a gathering of First Enchanters to discuss the results of the research, only for Grand Enchanter Fiona to hijack proceedings and start calling for another independence vote.  The Divine then seems to be assisting the mages.    No doubt when Lambert was strong arming the other Knight Commanders into supporting him, he would have talked up his experiences when in Tevinter, which would have made even moderate Templars worried about what was going on.   He is then murdered.    Naturally the Templars are going to be suspicious and hostile after this.

 

Mind you, after the performance of Lucius in Val Royeaux and that Templar punching the cleric, I was only too happy to respond to Fiona's invitation to meet with the mages.   Then I get to Redcliffe to discover the Fiona has sold out to Tevinter (regardless of time magic intervention there was no justification for this for the reasons given above).   Some other Tevinter mage is telling me it is all down to time magic, which none of my mages seem to think is credible, Fiona is acting weird, that seems to suggest some sort of blood magic mind control at play (since I was there and willing to talk to her, why didn't Fiona simply do so and refuse to give deference to Alexius?), Connor is really unhappy with the situation and then I discover the shed with the tranquil skulls.     At this point, I decide that may be I need some magic negating back up, before confronting the Magister again.    I wanted to free those mages who were unhappy with their leadership's decision but logically it was madness walking into an obvious trap.  

 

What annoyed me is that it was an either/or situation with regard to the Templars and mages and that you knew this when making your decision.   What should have happened is that you should only have discovered this the moment you were attacked at Haven.      Still it was not a case of mages = good decision, Templars = evil.

[Lunatica]

It's even worse that there are no consequences, even on a minor level, in DAI. Redcliffe still builds you a statue and Cass still wanted any Warden as an Inquisitor (and Leliana, no less).

Going full paragon on everything gives you near perfect results in DAO if not the absolute maximum in all cases but the odd thing as you said is that the outcome appear to be the same even for the evil choices.

[PhroXenGold]

Gold, Loghain is a monster and needed to be put down-you don't coddle a mad man. You eliminate him.

 

 

He's a resource. Nothing more, nothing less. Whatever he may or may not have done in the past is irrelevant. That is at the very core of being a Warden. Having one of the finest military leaders of the day - though he might have many other flaws, his prowess as a commander is undoubted - on your side will increase your chances of stopping the Blight. To not accept his help is to unnecessarily risk the lives of everyone in Thedas. If he needs to be eliminated, that can be done after the Blight is over.

 

 

Right,Mages made Templars  tranquil for little or no reason.. Mages beat,murder and raped Templars. 

 

The Templar thugs  couldn't wait to rush out to kill mages, the tranquil, and everybody they thought was a mage.

 

Some Templars act like that. And some mages run around abusing their powers. Hell some mages use blood magic to rule over a slaveocracy. And in the book in question, some mages are perfectly willing to kill innocents for no reason other than to frame the Templars while some Templars act against their leadership to help people.

 

Templars are thugs that got by with anything because the Seekers always blamed the mages. Cassandra  said the Seekers failed to see the problem.

 

Some Templars are thugs. Some care deeply about their charges. Some are in it to take advantage of their position. Some are in it because they believe they are keeping the people of Thedas - mage and non mage alike - safe. (Hey, it's almost like the police in America - some of them are decent folk, protecting the public, others are abusing their position to inflict violence on people....)

 

 

Under those conditions I support the mages.

 

Supporting the mages is a reasonable position given the abuses inflicted on them by some Templars.  Of course, so is supporting the Templars given the abuses of power we have seen from some mages.

 

I rescue the Greys and recruit them into the Inquisition since they was under mind control and some was fighting against the ritual at Adamant.

 

Good choice, they are a useful resource. On that has to be watched for signs of corruption, but one that can be used none-the-less.

 

You have to take in the whole picture and make a solid decision based on the facts. Again the thugs refused to talk at Val Royeaux and again when you speak to the Lord Seeker on Cassandra's quest.

 

 

Yeah, the "thugs" refuse to talk, while the mages have willingly sold themselves into bondage to a bunch of slave owning blood magic users who are clearly involved with who or whatever caused the breach. Not exactly paragons now, are they?

 

You certainly do need to look at the whole picture. And the whole picture is this: both sides are deeply flawed. And even beyond that, at the point where you make the choice in DA:I, the real big picture is the hole in the sky. Everything else pales in comparison to that. You should side with whomever you feel is best suited to helping close the Breach (and there are arguments both ways). Nothing else really matters.

[Xilizhra]

Instead they sold out the monarch and the people of Ferelden by ejecting Teagan and handing over the castle to a Tevinter Magister

Bullshit. This is never said. Alexius expelled Teagan entirely by himself, not by Fiona's word.

 

Still it was not a case of mages = good decision, Templars = evil.

This is your opinion. Mine differs.

[straykat]

Going full paragon on everything gives you near perfect results in DAO if not the absolute maximum in all cases but the odd thing as you said is that the outcome appear to be the same even for the evil choices.

 

Yeah.. It doesn't bother me too much though, because I only had one character like that. But I still felt like I wasted my time importing them (Or, wasted my time more than usual at least.).

[Tidus]

Gold,I will never side with the Templar  thugs no more then I will Loghain.  Talk to him in camp and he still sounds like  he's a invincible madman.

[German Soldier]

Of course not! But this is not Christianity, but a game with a completely different world. Sometimes it seems you judge, not just telling an opinion. (Not only here, not only about Morrigan.)

I tend to see in a very negative light people who act out of extreme selfishness and that are also prone to kill others due to their viewes not sure where is the flaw of my view.

 

 

The reason is simple..All three knows and understands dying for nothing means shite.

Gambling the entire world for one life means shite and is insane.

Murder knife should return, only scene we got for it in DAI was Morrigan killing Abelas. She made me so proud, I HC'd it as her taking a page out of my Warden's handbook.

I don't know what's wrong with people of this century that seem to enjoy so much destruction and death to think also that the elf was doing only a favor to her by destroying that artifact she killed him and she enslaved herself by a ghost not something to be proud of.

[Beerfish]

I miss the murder knife scenes....

 

Soldier : "Help me please..."

Warden : "We don't have time for this, let's go"

Alistair : "You don't have time?..."

Warden : "He's already dead, see?" (murder knife)

Poor Genativi

 

 

[PhroXenGold]

Gold,I will never side with the Templar  thugs no more then I will Loghain.  Talk to him in camp and he still sounds like  he's a invincible madman.

 

He is a madman. But he is a useful madman. And in the end, nothing else matters. Your job is to stop the Blight.