199 réponses à ce sujet

[straykat]

I like Genitivi's books. He is more traditional though. I think the ones written by Sister Petrine were a bit outside-the-box.

[Catilina]

You are killing a mindless fanatic of the chantry, did you read the books of Genitivi? they are ****!

Okay, okay, maybe next time I will kill him. But I not promise!

[PhroXenGold]

If your job is to stop the blight then why you stoped to help the people?

 

I did so when it provided me resources to use against the blight.

 

why you stayed at redcliff?

 

Because I need the resources and influence of the Arl to unite Ferelden against the Blight

 

why you saved the mages?

 

 

Because magic is a useful tool for defeating the Blight.

 

 

why you didn't only sided with the werewolves,

 

Because they've already demonstrated that they're somewhat uncontrollable and once you're in a position to side with them, it's every bit as easy to make peace

 

 

and most important, why you did the dark ritual?

 

I didn't.

 

It is easy to think you are playing a good warden when in true you are an hypocrite

 

In what way am I a hypocrite?

 

 

(just to note, the answers I have given here are those I might give when I'm playing a character who, like me, regards Loghain as a useful tool. I have, of course, played as characters with different views who made different choices - that is, after all, the entire point of an RPG. And hell, I've played characters with beliefs and views that could be considered contradicting. Cos, you know, things like that are pretty much par for the course when it comes to real people)

[Akiza]

 

 

How was the warden supposed to know the temple was going to be discovered anyway?

 

Why the warden was supposed to presume that they were the only people in the world able to discover the temple?

Especially after that many other knights discovered the village and that the curiosity over Eamon's healing drew the attention of Redclieffe.

 

 

Is like saying that you did the dark ritual because Morrigan lose the soul anyway, or you side with Bhelen because he is a better king than Harrowmont after the events of the game, your character can't know the future.

Why the warden shouldn't have been able to predict that since the ritual was a creation of Flemeth one day she would have come back to make a surprise to her daughter like she even said in one of her dialogues?

[Walter Black]

What is disturbing is that people will  do such a thing for the sake of being disturbed.

 

What is disturbing is how some people keep trying to insinuate how those who chose dark roleplaying choices in a fictional video game are a reflection of their real life ethics .

 

Oh no, it can't possibly be because they can separate fantasy and reality, can RP characters completey different than themselves instead of yet another self insert for the millionth time, actually enjoy complex adult drama rather than some Saturday mourning cartoon, or want to blow off steam at the modern world in a constructive manner that doesn't affect actual people? Nope, he reads Stephen King and listens to heavy metal, so he must be a serial killer!

 

My apologises if this comes off as harsh, it's been a long day. But when you hear this kind of talk from middle school onto the workforce, from people who refuse to even consider the notion that "favored entainment=/=real world views", it gets old.

[Akiza]

snip

Indeed i don't know why some people see helping Redclieffe as a waste of time...

[Aren]

What is disturbing is how some people keep trying to insinuate how those who chose dark roleplaying choices in a fictional video game are a reflection of their real life ethics .

 

Oh no, it can't possibly be because they can separate fantasy and reality, can RP characters completey different than themselves instead of yet another self insert for the millionth time, actually enjoy complex adult drama rather than some Saturday mourning cartoon, or want to blow off steam at the modern world in a constructive manner that doesn't affect actual people? Nope, he reads Stephen King and listens to heavy metal, so he must be a serial killer!

 

My apologises if this comes off as harsh, it's been a long day. But when you hear this kind of talk from middle school onto the workforce, from people who refuse to even consider the notion that "favored entainment=/=real world views", it gets old.

Totally missed the point bravo!

 

What's the adult complex drama people found in insanity?

Like killing that soldier in Ostagar because "we don't have time" that's adult drama.....or insanity?

[straykat]

 

Totally missed the point bravo!

 

What's the adult complex drama people found in insanity?

Like killing that soldier in Ostagar because "we don't have time" that's adult drama.....or insanity?

 

 

Some of those are a bit random, I agree. If it's written well though, these type of choices can fit well for certain characters.

[BloodKaiden]

I like to give a second chance. 
I never killed Genitivi, I simply do not see a logic reason for killing an innocent man.

No one is innocent, you realize how many damn codex's I had to read because of this man! To the pyre with him.

[BloodKaiden]

Ah, I forgot about that beauty.

[Walter Black]

 

Totally missed the point bravo!

 

What's the adult complex drama people found in insanity?

Like killing that soldier in Ostagar because "we don't have time" that's adult drama.....or insanity?

 

 

The point is about player choice; If I want to explore the narrative of a ruthlessly pragmatic, or yes insane protagonist, that is what a complete role playing game should offer. I usually don't, but it's nice to have the options. A good RPG lets the player be good or evil, wise or foolish, wierd or unremarkably ordinary if they so choose.

 

Another thing, since RPGs are all about wish fulfillment anyway, the whole point of "evil" choices is relieve stress vicariously do the things we never would in real life. I would prefer to be Batman or Captain America, but sometimes I really, really wanna play Doctor Doom .

[Catilina]

No one is innocent, you realize how many damn codex's I had to read because of this man! To the pyre with him.

But when I'm there, I do not know it...

[German Soldier]

 

What is disturbing is how some people keep trying to insinuate how those who chose dark roleplaying choices in a fictional video game are a reflection of their real life ethics .

 

Oh no, it can't possibly be because they can separate fantasy and reality, can RP characters completey different than themselves instead of yet another self insert for the millionth time, actually enjoy complex adult drama rather than some Saturday mourning cartoon, or want to blow off steam at the modern world in a constructive manner that doesn't affect actual people? Nope, he reads Stephen King and listens to heavy metal, so he must be a serial killer!

 

My apologises if this comes off as harsh, it's been a long day. But when you hear this kind of talk from middle school onto the workforce, from people who refuse to even consider the notion that "favored entainment=/=real world views", it gets old.

Players are demanding more variety of options (include those who tend toward pure insanity apparently)but at the same time they refuse to have to bear the proper outcomes for it.Why the npcs around a protagonist should follow someone which is so psychotic and insane that will kill out of pure pettiness?

Imagine an Inquisitor who is able to retain their position despite their insanity..that would put at  odds the credibility of the story.. not that the story of DAI is coherent  but still is better to not make it even more unbelivable.

[straykat]

I would have just a preferred a more politically and war heavy game for DAI. There wouldn't be insanity per se, but there'd probably be plenty of room for ruthlessness (or heroism).

[BloodKaiden]

Players are demanding more variety of options (include those who tend toward pure insanity apparently)but at the same time they refuse to have to bear the proper outcomes for it.Why the npcs around a protagonist should follow someone which is so psychotic and insane that will kill out of pure pettiness?
Imagine an Inquisitor who is able to retain their position despite their insanity..that would put at  odds the credibility of the story.. not that the story of DAI is coherent  but still is better to not make it even more unbelivable.

They have the option to leave if disapproval gets too low, at least in DAO.

[Walter Black]

 

Players are demanding more variety of options (include those who tend toward pure insanity apparently)but at the same time they refuse to have to bear the proper outcomes for it.Why the npcs around a protagonist should follow someone which is so psychotic and insane that will kill out of pure pettiness?

Imagine an Inquisitor who is able to retain their position despite their insanity..that would put at  odds the credibility of the story.. not that the story of DAI is coherent  but still is better to not make it even more unbelivable.

 

 

I have no problems facing the consequences of such choices; good-alligned NPCs turn against me? Bring it on! However, previeous Bioware games make your position a false dichtonomy. In Baldur's Gate, KOTOR, and Jade Empire you could be an irredeemable monster and still win the game. None of the good guys will follow you? There were plenty neutral and evil ones who would...

[Catilina]

The point is about player choice; If I want to explore the narrative of a ruthlessly pragmatic, or yes insane protagonist, that is what a complete role playing game should offer. I usually don't, but it's nice to have the options. A good RPG lets the player be good or evil, wise or foolish, wierd or unremarkably ordinary if they so choose.

 

Another thing, since RPGs are all about wish fulfillment anyway, the whole point of "evil" choices is relieve stress vicariously do the things we never would in real life. I would prefer to be Batman or Captain America, but sometimes I really, really wanna play Doctor Doom .

I don't like to play with evil character, then I rarely do decisions which I think are evil.. But I dont judge people, who want to play with pure evil character.

But I do not think that we are debating on this. However, the view point is different from a lot of people that which is the good and which is the evil choice.

For example I think, really evil thing to send Feynriel and Ella to the Circle, but according to others this is a good decision.

[straykat]

I don't like to play with evil character, then I rarely do decisions which I think are evil.. But I dont judge people, who want to play with pure evil character.

But I do not think that we are debating on this. However, the view point is different from a lot of people that which is the good and which is the evil choice

For example I think, really evil thign to send Feynriel or/and Ella to the Circle, but according to others this is a good decision.

 

I think sending Ella can simply be an ignorant choice. Like, "Only Alrik was bad. She'll be OK." Especially when Bethany tells you how good it is and she knows Ella. 

 

Feynriel is pretty screwed up though.

[Dean_the_Young]

Well i don't really think there are good reasons to kill Genitivi it seem to be just an option for those people biased against the chantry but then again it serve nothing because the temple is discovered no matter what.

 

Well, it does also murder one of the most notable, and least biased, scholars in modern Thedas. One of the few we know of who actively search for and report encounters with even a semblance of honesty and fairness. Compared to, say, the more doctrinair/ideolgocial Chantry scholars or the Dwarven Shaperate, who actively rewrite history to serve their desires, let alone the Dalish, Genetivi is one practically the best source of information we have in modern Thedas, and not someone who lets the past or factional agendas overshadow his actual perception.

 

So if you like retarding the progression of knowledge and scientific inquiry, and ensuring that far more biased and ideological writers are the ones to sway public opinion, it's actually a good thing.

[Catilina]

I think sending Ella can simply be an ignorant choice. Like, "Only Alrik was bad. She'll be OK." Especially when Bethany tells you how good it is and she knows Ella. 

 

Feynriel is pretty screwed up though.

That's it! I will not send an innocent mage  to the Kirkwall Circle (okay, I know: nobody innocent, especially if s/he is a mage...). (Except Idunna, from the brothel.) Just with an evil character, because I think, the Kirkwall Circle are evil. (Good enough to see, what happened with Karl, for an escape attempts.)

[straykat]

That's it! I will not send an innocent mage  to the Kirkwall Circle (okay, I know: nobody innocent, especially if s/he is a mage...). (Except Idunna, from the brothel.) Just with an evil character, because I think, the Kirkwall Circle are evil. (Good enough to see, what happened with Karl, for an escape attempts.)

 

If someone is playing the first time though, maybe they don't mean it as evil. And if you're playing multiple times, I don't know.. it's good for roleplaying at least. It kind of takes the fun out of it to always make clear judgements, especially in the middle of the game. Just my opinion.

[Catilina]

 

Players are demanding more variety of options (include those who tend toward pure insanity apparently)but at the same time they refuse to have to bear the proper outcomes for it.Why the npcs around a protagonist should follow someone which is so psychotic and insane that will kill out of pure pettiness?

Imagine an Inquisitor who is able to retain their position despite their insanity..that would put at  odds the credibility of the story.. not that the story of DAI is coherent  but still is better to not make it even more unbelivable.

 

The Inquisitor's case totally believable: only s/he can close the rifts. If s/he are evil, they remain with him to keep an eye on for example.

[Catilina]

If someone is playing the first time though, maybe they don't mean it as evil. And if you're playing multiple times, I don't know.. it's good for roleplaying at least. It kind of takes the fun out of it to always make clear judgements, especially in the middle of the game. Just my opinion.

Karl appears at the beginning.

I talked about a "good" character, not an "evil". An evil (or a blind lawful...) character, of course, sends they in the Circle.

[straykat]

Karl appears at the beginning.

I talked about a "good" character, not an "evil". An evil characters, of course, sends they in the Circle.

 

Evil is a strong word. Like I imagine a straight up villain or something.

 

I'm saying it could be simply an ignorant choice. Or someone simply not going full Anders mode right in the middle of the game. I mean, that's what Anders is good for. He does that already. But not every character has to see eye to eye to him right away. It doesn't mean they're evil.

 

Evil to me is selling Fenris to slavery or killing Bethany.

[Arshei]

 

Why the warden was supposed to presume that they were the only people in the world able to discover the temple?

Especially after that many other knights discovered the village and that the curiosity over Eamon's healing drew the attention of Redclieffe.

 

Why the warden shouldn't have been able to predict that since the ritual was a creation of Flemeth one day she would have come back to make a surprise to her daughter like she even said in one of her dialogues?

 

Because the templars didn't even knew the Urn was real, they were persuing a legend, Genitivi knows they are real, and you made the dirty work cleaning the way so the chantry can go and simply take the ashes.

---

Why would the warden think about Flemeth when you are talking about sex with Morrigan? Do you only romance Morrigan because you expect her to be like Flemeth when she became a granny? and you love GILFs?

 

There is no reason why a good warden would accept the ritual, is selfish and irresponsable, beside the fact you don't know who is going to kill the Archdemon, and you don't care at all about Riordan.

You swore an oath when you became a Grey Warden, "In death, sacrifice".

 

 

I did so when it provided me resources to use against the blight.

 

Because I need the resources and influence of the Arl to unite Ferelden against the Blight

 

Because magic is a useful tool for defeating the Blight.

 

Because they've already demonstrated that they're somewhat uncontrollable and once you're in a position to side with them, it's every bit as easy to make peace

 

I didn't.

 

In what way am I a hypocrite?

 

(just to note, the answers I have given here are those I might give when I'm playing a character who, like me, regards Loghain as a useful tool. I have, of course, played as characters with different views who made different choices - that is, after all, the entire point of an RPG. And hell, I've played characters with beliefs and views that could be considered contradicting. Cos, you know, things like that are pretty much par for the course when it comes to real people)

 

What resource is saving peasants? what resource is helping in the orphanage of Denerim, what resource is giving poor people money?, etc.

 

Since you seem so "logical", you think 3 mages, 3 children and a crazy girl are a good exchange for 20 templars?, I hated how they made choices like "If you side with the mages, you win a new companion, if you side with the templars, you are a bastard, f*ck you"

That should be "You win Wynne with the Mages, you win Cullen/Other templar with the templars", of course you already have Alistair for templars, but if you are a magi warden you already have a warden.

 

Uncontrollable? they are better than simply dalish elves, if you want to stop the blight, you prefer the elves of Santa Clous throwing arrows or werewolves?

 

And excuse me if I don't believe you didn't do Morrigan's ritual.

-----

Loghain is a useful tool?, you lose Alistair, and if you have to choose between the whiny ***** who followed you the entire game or the traitor who tried to kill you the whole game, sold elves to Tevinter, let Howe do whatever he wanted, etc, the option is clear.