38 réponses à ce sujet

[Dai Grepher]

Maybe Revka's children were given the Amell name when sent to the Circles because the father disowned them?

I don't think we know what the father's name was. So it's more likely that the human mage (at least) was registered under the mother's maiden name when taken to the Circle. If Revka married some noble like Leandra was arranged to do, then it makes sense that the noble would not want the mage child to carry his name. Also, there were five children within a 8-12 year time span, so that seems to indicate a noble trying to sire as many heirs as possible with Revka.

[Ghost Gal]

You don't know how often nobles in-bred throughout history to keep the "noble blood" pure, do you?

 

Heck, until less than a century ago marrying one's cousin was still considered acceptable in the US, and is still considered so in some cultures around the world.

[Xerrai]

Is incest only applicable when you marry/breed with a sibling? Or can it apply if you marry/breed with a cousin? Because I honestly would'nt put it above Thedas to do the latter. Marrying cousins and other people with whom you can trace your biological lineage was a common practice in many medieval settings. All in an effort to keep bloodlines pure.

So I imagine nobility marrying cousins or other close relatives is not unheard of, though it may still be uncommon. Perhaps even looked down upon by some. Siblings though...that seems like something even the nobility will declare taboo.

[Captain Wiseass]

Is incest only applicable when you marry/breed with a sibling? Or can it apply if you marry/breed with a cousin? Because I honestly would'nt put it above Thedas to do the latter. Marrying cousins and other people with whom you can trace your biological lineage was a common practice in many medieval settings. All in an effort to keep bloodlines pure.

So I imagine nobility marrying cousins or other close relatives is not unheard of, though it may still be uncommon. Perhaps even looked down upon by some. Siblings though...that seems like something even the nobility will declare taboo.

Legal definitions vary, but it's generally considered as someone too close to your immediate family bloodline. Most people today would consider first cousins incest.

 

Incidentally, we have a real-life example of the consequences of too much inbreeding: King Charles II of Spain. https://en.wikipedia...les_II_of_Spain

[Tatar Foras]

I don't see anything "sick" in an incestuous relationship. It's unusual, sure, and care should be taken with having children, but IMO the various laws against incestuous relationships (as opposed to laws against having children) are leftovers from a time when a relationship usually meant children - outdated, and I can't see *any* reason to oppose it on moral grounds these days.

 

[Arshei]

 

Love is Love, as LGBT + Pedophiles + Rapers + Trump use to say.

[Qis]

The perception of first cousin marriage in Christian (including those that were historically Christian but arguably aren't any more) societies varies a lot with culture/nationality. In some places it's considered incestuous, in others, it's not and is fact considered perfectly acceptable (indeed, as I pointed out in my previous post, among the upper classes, especially the royalty, it was often the norm).

 

The problem is the west love to use own measure stick to judge other cultures, even today. I used to have arguments with western Christians (or those who claim to be Christians but actually secular who never read Bible at all in their life) marrying cousins among Muslim community, it turn ugly. Christians in my own community don't give a **** about it.

 

Cousins are considered "ajnabi", the one who we must cover ourselves, careful with touchings, have limit in social interaction, because we can marry them.  Even they are relatives, relationship is more like friends than a family. It is something that western peoples are not used to isn't it?

[Xerrai]

You know now that I think about it, the only major country that I can see outright outlawing incest would be the Qunari.

They have absolutely no reason to preserve bloodlines for the sake of heirs, and of all countries, Par Vollen and Tevinter are the ones to have most likely have studied the effects of genetics. So if any are privy to the potential detrimental effects of inbreeding between close family members, it would be Par Vollen. Possibly.

 

The rest of Thedas and its nations probably practice it to some degree. Likely within the higher echelons of society. The Dalish may also practice it too depending on how isolated their population is and how their culture may differ.

[DeathScepter]

well I do think Incest is creepy. 

[Ieldra]

The problem is the west love to use own measure stick to judge other cultures, even today. I used to have arguments with western Christians (or those who claim to be Christians but actually secular who never read Bible at all in their life) marrying cousins among Muslim community, it turn ugly. Christians in my own community don't give a **** about it.

 

Cousins are considered "ajnabi", the one who we must cover ourselves, careful with touchings, have limit in social interaction, because we can marry them.  Even they are relatives, relationship is more like friends than a family. It is something that western peoples are not used to isn't it?

From a psychological point of view, a reluctance to enter a relationship in spite of compatibility, general inclination, opportunity and orientation is most often observed among those who grew up together in close proximity. In modern times, that would not usually apply to cousins in the western cultures, so I really don't know why people are so much against it. Some kind of inherited ideological imprinting I guess.

 

@Arshei:

Love is love, as long as it comes from both sides and both sides can be considered capable of freely consenting. Anything more restrictive than that is reactionary BS. It's not altogether surprising that older societes are less enlightened - after all, a relationship usually meant children, but we should know better. We even have the technology to find out whether having children would be risky, so I see no reason for that taboo to stand unchallenged either. It is also a very cultural thing. Between old Egypt, European nobility and some Muslim countries, there were societies where incest wasn't such a big thing, so I no see reason to act superior about this. #

 

@DeathSceptre:

You feel what you feel, but do you morally condemn it because of that? There are quite a few things I personally find disgusting, but where I have no business interfering.

[Xilizhra]

Between old Egypt, European nobility and some Muslim countries, there were societies where incest wasn't such a big thing, so I no see reason to act superior about this. #

To be fair, that wound up biting the first two in the ass (I'm not sure about the third). The trouble is finding a logically consistent way to forbid incestuous couples from having children when we don't do the same for the genetically weak in other aspects... then again, it's possible that the cultural taboo on incest will make it highly unlikely that it'll be a continuous action in the same family.

[Dai Grepher]

Love is love, as long as it comes from both sides and both sides can be considered capable of freely consenting.

And who determines that they're capable?

Anything more restrictive than that is reactionary BS.

Well you wrote "both" sides, implying two participants. Isn't this restrictive of you?

It's not altogether surprising that older societes are less enlightened - after all, a relationship usually meant children, but we should know better.

Ah, older societies are less enlightened. Got it.

It is also a very cultural thing. Between old Egypt, European nobility and some Muslim countries, there were societies where incest wasn't such a big thing, so I no see reason to act superior about this.

Um... because older societies are less enlightened?

I think Ferelden would consider incest strange, as it does for homosexuality. But they might not outlaw it unless done in public, again, similar to how they treat homosexuality.

Orlais is obviously fine with it. Gaspard proposed marriage to Celene even though they're cousins.

Antiva's probably fine with it, because... Antivans.

Tevinter is probably against it among nobility, but encourages it among the slaves for entertainment purposes, same as homosexuality.

Nevarra is difficult to determine without knowing more of their culture. They might practice it, sort of as a holdover from Orlesian customs.

The Free Marches probably doesn't practice it. I think the Free Marches has more in common with Ferelden.

The Qunari likely don't allow it. They probably favor genetic diversity, since more variety of inborn traits/skills will result in more purposes to fulfill. And my opinion is that the Qunari only sanction sex for procreation purposes. Outside of this Qunari are expected to practice discipline and self-restraint.

[CoM Solaufein]

You don't know how often nobles in-bred throughout history to keep the "noble blood" pure, do you?

 

Heck, until less than a century ago marrying one's cousin was still considered acceptable in the US, and is still considered so in some cultures around the world.

So true. I'm my family's genealogist and I can trace a few instances where I have first cousins marrying in our family tree.

[Arshei]

So true. I'm my family's genealogist and I can trace a few instances where I have first cousins marrying in our family tree.