Temat jest zamknięty
The funny thing though is that David Gaider at least went to blogging on Tumblr. It was actually pretty cool.. he answered a lot of questions.
And then Tumblr pissed him off too and his departure letter mentioned something about being fed up with "SJWs". Gaider, of all people.
So it seems just about any group can go too far 
And then Tumblr pissed him off too and his departure letter mentioned something about being fed up with "SJWs". Gaider, of all people.
I've almost spit my coffee here and had to find that actual record. He just hated Tumblr site format. You liar.
I've almost spit my coffee here and had to find that actual record. He just hated Tumblr site format. You liar.
He deleted everything. It was the last letter that showed up when you entered the site.. I don't know if you can find it now. He finally got sick, because him and Weekes started getting attacked on the Dorian/Bull romance.
Word is that game developers like to extract some amount of tears from their target audience. These are kept for the coffee machines. Some say gamer tears have magical powers and boost creativity.
And then Tumblr pissed him off too and his departure letter mentioned something about being fed up with "SJWs". Gaider, of all people.
Well... I'm definitely sorry I missed that.
The forum here is toxic and overflowing with trolls and nitpickers over silly stuff, but it is not representative of the fanbase as a whole. The Mass Effect reddit for example is much friendlier with occasionally very interesting discussions. If I would judge only according BSN, I would say that Bioware hate the guts of the fans.
I'm annoyed with their fans, does that count?
If we go by the statistics, the vast majority of people who play a Bioware game never even finish it.
True, but OTOH, DAI has a fairly cynical view of that power. The Inquisitor gets it, but can't really use it for too much, and only gets it because people believe things about her that aren't true and because she's supported by some elements of the existing power structures.
That nuanced message isn't really what I got when the inquisitor says the Independence-day-level-of-stupid line "you wanted into the fade?" and sends Corypheus into the hole in the sky and then goes back to Disney-like cheering crowds at Skyhold.
This isn't a dig at either, but I'm just wondering if perhaps BioWare is annoyed with certain of their fans' attitudes. If BioWare have any ill feelings toward us, I hope they don't take it out on Ryder. It would be a clever and subtle way of doing it, taking their anger out on our avatars.
Sometimes it feels like BioWare's a little bit peeved off, maybe rightfully so, maybe not.
The real question, one they should be worried about, is are their 'fans' (read: Customers) annoyed at them? Honestly, you're part of the problem. We're not 'fans', we're customers and people need to start thinking like customers. Would you buy a car where the breaks would be fitted at some indeterminable time after purchase? Where a steering wheel was replaced with handlebars? There is no other industry in the world where consumers would put up with what gamers put up with from Developers and the industry does it is because they're allowed to do it because people pre-order stuff.
Honestly, you need to be less worried with what they think of you and more worried about the quality of the product you're parting with your hard earned money for because I assure you, Bioware need you a hell of a lot more than you need Bioware.
The real question, one they should be worried about, is are their 'fans' (read: Customers) annoyed at them? Honestly, you're part of the problem. We're not 'fans', we're customers and people need to start thinking like customers. Would you buy a car where the breaks would be fitted at some indeterminable time after purchase? Where a steering wheel was replaced with handlebars? There is no other industry in the world where consumers would put up with what gamers put up with from Developers and the industry does it is because they're allowed to do it because people pre-order stuff.
Honestly, you need to be less worried with what they think of you and more worried about the quality of the product you're parting with your hard earned money for because I assure you, Bioware need you a hell of a lot more than you need Bioware.
Do you honestly think that video gamers griping about individual lines in a story equates to customers complaining about their car's brakes? Get real. You don't get to buy a book, read half of it, and then take it back to the bookstore and demand the author rewrite the thing because you don't like where the story is going.
I'm getting annoyed with fans who think they're "entitled" to dump on other fans for pre-ordering a product. I pre-order lots of stuff... mostly custom made stuff that I even put a deposit on before the work is even started. It's how the person making the item for me buys the materials in order to make it. I usually get a much higher quality item that way than buying mass produced "crap" off the shelf. Employment is actually a form of "pre-order" by a company... they hire you and usually start paying you before the project they hired you for is complete.
Also, not everyone who pre-orders a game is doing so blind and stupid... they probably have viewed the trailers and they may have even read/seen some pre-release reviews. They have the ability to discern the history of the company regarding how truthful their trailers tend to be... and they do usually get some sort of pre-order bonus (some of which are quite nice). Pre-order sales are generally also only a very small percentage of the total target sales for any game... i.e. the company doesn't make the game just wanting to attract the pre-orders... they want many more sales to happen after that. That is, their incentive to make a good game is still there because they want the people who do get it early to go on and recommend it to the other players who waited until after release to consider buying it.
I know I'd be if I saw and read through this forum, no doubt!
Yes me to no doubt about that at all 
.
He deleted everything. It was the last letter that showed up when you entered the site.. I don't know if you can find it now. He finally got sick, because him and Weekes started getting attacked on the Dorian/Bull romance.
You can find most of Gaider's tumblr posts here: http://the-gaider-archives.tumblr.com/
In some cases yes and there is nothing wrong with that. But the BioWare relationship with their fans is much worse now than being angry it is apathy and a big loss of connection with the fans.
Faceless mods who do a lousy job (ignoring topics and posters that should be censured, tossing out infractions for heinous crimes like posting images without words.)
Almost zero BioWare presence on the forums. (Community manager? Waz that?)
Giving fans little face slaps like just removing off topic with pretty well no notice.
The new strategy of giving almost zero info on games for years and then pounding a gob of info not long before release.
Many fine people work at BioWare but the company has indeed become corpritized.
Aye, this. Bioware's never been good about handling criticism. It usually has the reaction of, "We know what we're doing".
Then instead of fixing something, its just removed. Hell its not even just the games, its the forum as well.
Bioware used to talk to us all the time on this forum and communicate like anyone else. Really wonderful conversations were fostered here. But then games came out that people didn't enjoy and Bioware ran away from us.
I keep wondering why this forum still exists. At this point it doesn't need to;Bioware's already made it clear they'd rather be on Twitter, Reddit, and other websites to discuss their games. They couldn't care less about the Bioware Forum.
Before they treated it like it was home. Now they treat it like its a car wreck they'll look at from afar. What was it they said a few years ago, something about a "toxic" community? Oh yeah.
http://kotaku.com/59...ly-toxic-forums
And what do you know, the rest have disappeared too. Because apparently its impossible to separate between the good, the bad, and the trolly.
Instead of fixing things Bioware just disappeared which made things worse. So if I came to learn that Bioware/EA had a negative opinion of fans, either here or elsewhere, I would not be surprised.
I'd actually expect it. Its real easy to come out in public and say, "We love our fans!" at a convention surrounded by cosplayers. But as we've recently seen with the DNC, you'll find that personal REAL opinions can be quite different.
I miss the old Bioware that loved us and talked to us like we were all cool with one another. This quiet one that talks behind our backs and doesn't even look us in the eyes sucks.
Not to say there aren't good people there, hell I love some of the folks who are lifers with the company. But man, the silence here says more to me than any tweet or public response on another site ever could.
The real question, one they should be worried about, is are their 'fans' (read: Customers) annoyed at them? Honestly, you're part of the problem. We're not 'fans', we're customers and people need to start thinking like customers. Would you buy a car where the breaks would be fitted at some indeterminable time after purchase? Where a steering wheel was replaced with handlebars? There is no other industry in the world where consumers would put up with what gamers put up with from Developers and the industry does it is because they're allowed to do it because people pre-order stuff.
Honestly, you need to be less worried with what they think of you and more worried about the quality of the product you're parting with your hard earned money for because I assure you, Bioware need you a hell of a lot more than you need Bioware.
He deleted everything. It was the last letter that showed up when you entered the site.. I don't know if you can find it now. He finally got sick, because him and Weekes started getting attacked on the Dorian/Bull romance.
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Hm..
Attacked you say?
You know, I can't understand the Bull theme, even today, for a number of reasons. The romance between the Oxen and a human just pushed some over the edge, I guess. Perhaps thinking of bestiality?
Inconsistencies is the death of a writer.
1. The Bull theme
The Qun and human philosophies and social order is like oil and water. The Qun demand order while humans love chaos. How Bull, who was indoctrinated from birth on QUN principles can somehow absorb chaos in human lands is totally inconsistent. I also don't buy Bio's / writers' explanation.
2. Oxen / Dorian romance.
I believe the Qunari are DNA incompatible with humans (someone mentioned a 2% difference is enough). How Dorian can even think about a relationship with horny is perplexing. I guess some found it disgusting and attacked them via Tumbler?
The whole thing was slapped together... forced even, to pursue someone's fantasy I guess.
If they tell a good story they can abuse my character all they like. Just don't abuse me with crap story telling.
You can find most of Gaider's tumblr posts here: http://the-gaider-archives.tumblr.com/
A quote from that last archived post-
"I came to Tumblr as a place to blog and maybe interact with some of the fans who otherwise wouldn't go anywhere near the BSN."
This is the kind of stuff I'm talking about. There are plenty of great people here who've devoted a lot of time to expressing their viewpoints respectfully and clearly which has helped Bioware over the years but because of a terrible set of games the last few years and Bioware's terrible track record for dealing with criticism and handling trolls, some have decided to lump all of us under the same umbrella as being not worth communicating with.
They let the place get overrun with nonsense and then blamed all of us for it when most of us don't even partake.
Bioware has no right to antagonize fans. Maybe they feel frustrated in their hearts but it's best they bury those feels and adapt for video game companies exist to serve us.
This is a sentiment that really only pops up when we're mad about something. And shockingly, it doesn't appear to be a standard to which every single developer is held.
The companies exist to sell products, sure, so it's obviously not optimal to actively alienate anyone, but the people actually creating the games don't owe "us" anything - at least no more than anyone involved in a creative endeavor owes their audience. Broadly speaking, they should probably just ignore us.
They're probably annoyed. I would be. Gamers are probably the worst, generally speaking, but fans + internet are pretty much terrible no matter the medium. Pettiness and stupidity are intrinsic to the essential human character.
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Hm..
Attacked you say?
You know, I can't understand the Bull theme, even today, for a number of reasons. The romance between the Oxen and a human just pushed some over the edge, I guess. Perhaps thinking of bestiality?
Inconsistencies is the death of a writer.
1. The Bull theme
The Qun and human philosophies and social order is like oil and water. The Qun demand order while humans love chaos. How Bull, who was indoctrinated from birth on QUN principles can somehow absorb chaos in human lands is totally inconsistent. I also don't buy Bio's / writers' explanation.
2. Oxen / Dorian romance.
I believe the Qunari are DNA incompatible with humans (someone mentioned a 2% difference is enough). How Dorian can even think about a relationship with horny is perplexing. I guess some found it disgusting and attacked them via Tumbler?
The whole thing was slapped together... forced even, to pursue someone's fantasy I guess.
It wasn't about that. It was about how it was written. Tumblr/Twitter got on their case, because Bull came off as disrespectful to Dorian. Weekes/Gaider disagreed. Then there was drama or something.
I thought Bull was a lame character anyways, so I don't care. Any criticism is good to me.
The better question is: are fans annoyed with BIoware?
You can find most of Gaider's tumblr posts here: http://the-gaider-archives.tumblr.com/
Oh that's cool. I was getting just an empty page for awhile.
That is exactly right. That is why they are moving away from their original fan base and starting to cater to the more mainstream Cod FPS crowd. They are far more easier to please. I am getting the feeling that they are slowly trying to weed us out so we are no longer a problem for them.This is business. If you are annoyed with your customer, so what? You still need to please them in order to remain in business.
A quote from that last archived post-
"I came to Tumblr as a place to blog and maybe interact with some of the fans who otherwise wouldn't go anywhere near the BSN."
This is the kind of stuff I'm talking about. There are plenty of great people here who've devoted a lot of time to expressing their viewpoints respectfully and clearly which has helped Bioware over the years but because of a terrible set of games the last few years and Bioware's terrible track record for dealing with criticism and handling trolls, some have decided to lump all of us under the same umbrella as being not worth communicating with.
They let the place get overrun with nonsense and then blamed all of us for it when most of us don't even partake.
Stricter moderation isn't something that's so easily accomplished. Let's take NeoGAF as an example, a place that has a reputation for great or terrible moderation, depending whom you ask. I wonder what certain posters on this board would think if the use of "SJW" in a derogatory manner led to a near-automatic ban either for stupidity or strawmanning? Illogical arguments bolstered by transparent biases? Blatant denial of facts even in the face of studies or stats, or making crap up without sources? That's something you can accomplish when you're a private board owned by one guy who can curate the priorities of his mods to his liking, but it's more difficult to try and establish a corporate policy on moderation, which is why the official forums of virtually every company are complete trash.
The BSN is still around because it does have its own identity and history, but it's becoming irrelevant. And it's fine for irrelevant things to still exist. There's value in a company having official forums, even if the company itself doesn't use them (by the way: they still do. They just post less often). Getting angry because BioWare chooses to read Reddit more often, the BW subforums of which are demonstrably filled with a higher ratio of quality posts, seems a bit fruitless. Internet communities are fluid, so why don't you just....post your criticisms on Reddit? If they are intelligent, there won't be a problem.
That is exactly right. That is why they are moving away from their original fan base and starting to cater to the more mainstream Cod FPS crowd. They are far more easier to please. I am getting the feeling that they are slowly trying to weed us out so we are no longer a problem for them.
Yes, the fanbase that just nuked Call of Duty's latest announcement trailer with millions of dislikes is easier to please. Sure.
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