105 réponses à ce sujet

[The Hierophant]

But the OP is clearly a wrestling fan. Something doesn't match up here.

No that just speaks volumes about the quality of Mass Effect's dialogue.

 

"Lemme tell you something, brother! This isn't about strategy and tactics-- it's about saying your prayers, and taking your vitamins! The question isn't what we're going to do about the Reapers. The question is: 'Reapers, what're you gonna do...when the Shepamania runs wild over you?!'. Get your guns. We should go."

See? This is already superior to the original.

[DuskWanderer]

I blame an emphasis on poor judgment. BioWARE's really been lacking there with what's good and what's not. 

[rocklikeafool]

There was writing that ranged from great to meh in the the games. Now while I want characters making smart decisions and for logic to prevail at least 99% of the time in any given story AND for the writing to be fairly smart, it wouldn't strike me as being particularly realistic for literally every single character in a game to sound coolly cerebral every single time they open their mouths or for every conversation (or speech)  to sound like "an adult conversation" (however you're actually defining that, OP).

Incidentally, if Bioware did this, it actually WOULD be bad writing. OP wouldn't know good writing if it whacked him in the face. Good writing creates characters who feel believable. And guess what? Not all characters are OR should be erudites. 

[Gwydden]

Incidentally, if Bioware did this, it actually WOULD be bad writing. OP wouldn't know good writing if it whacked him in the face. Good writing creates characters who feel believable. And guess what? Not all characters are OR should be erudites. 

False dichotomy. There's a middle ground between making everyone sound like they're reading off an academic paper and cheesy, cliche dialogue that turns the cringe up to eleven.

 

EDIT: Even in real life, people tend to avoid saying cheesy, cliche things... because they are aware that they are cringeworthy, If I wanted to praise someone leadership skills, I promise you I'd come up with something less awful than "well, you've got this fire, you see.,."

[TheRevanchist]

On the plus side, he wrote Javik and some other good things. But for some reason, I can just feel his enthusiasm coming off those two. People knock Mac Walters, but I always liked his stuff. I thought Wrex and Garrus were cooler before.

 

Mac Walters wrote the opening Earth section. aka "We fight or we die".....so yea.

[Jukaga]

No more repeating idioms. Example:

 

Hackett: ...I'll throw everyone who can hold a hammer at it

 

a little while later

 

Garrus: ...yeah, maybe someone who can hold a hammer

 

 

There are tons more examples of characters repeating lines from other characters, usually using really bad out of date north American slang.

[Snorka]

Waiter: your order sir?

 

Privileged gamer: seventy thousand lines of dialect, no cliche!

[straykat]

Mac Walters wrote the opening Earth section. aka "We fight or we die".....so yea.

 

He also wrote ME1/2 Garrus, Wrex, Aria, parts of TIM, Zaeed, and last but not least, Conrad Verner.

 

But I like that line. Not the strategy or tactics one, but just that above.

[This is the End My Friend]

Guess you don't see the issue. You're going to need strategy and tactics to face the reapers to survive, so it is about strategy and tactics. So what Shepard said was just idiotic.

 

I hate Shepard's idiotic dialogue as much as the next person but I don't think that was the point of that line at all. I think the point was there is no master plan for defeating the Reapers ( Shep should've gave Yang Wenli a call just in case though) and ones will to survive is the key. I know I'd be jumping off the nearest cliff. 

[straykat]

I hate Shepard's idiotic dialogue as much as the next person but I don't think that was the point of that line at all. I think the point was there is no master plan for defeating the Reapers ( Shep should've gave Yang Wenli a call just in case though) and ones will to survive is the key. I know I'd be jumping off the nearest cliff. 

 

Which is why I only like the "fight or die" line. It conveys it better.

[This is the End My Friend]

I would agree with that. I've actually heard veterans use similar wording when describing a harrowing experience they survived. 

[Laughing_Man]

I would agree with that. I've actually heard veterans use similar wording when describing a harrowing experience they survived. 

 

You mean "fight or die"?

 

Well yeah, but this is more about the infantry level, the life or death struggle between individual soldiers.

Shepard is speaking to a high defense committee about the Reapers, those sayings are completely and utterly irrelevant and unhelpful at this level.

 

Tell them instead what *not* to do - I.e. fight the Reapers head on, tell them about the collector cruiser and its power, speculate about similar and different tactics due to the fact that they were essentially being controlled by a Harbinger, mention tactics that worked against Reaper ground forces, etc.

[straykat]

You mean "fight or die"?

 

Well yeah, but this is more about the infantry level, the life or death struggle between individual soldiers.

Shepard is speaking to a high defense committee about the Reapers, those sayings are completely and utterly irrelevant and unhelpful at this level.

 

Tell them instead what *not* to do - I.e. fight the Reapers head on, tell them about the collector cruiser and its power, speculate about similar and different tactics due to the fact that they were essentially being controlled by a Harbinger, mention tactics that worked against Reaper ground forces, etc.

 

But there's nothing you CAN do to help (not without the asspull of the crucible). It's an existential threat. Not a military one.

[Laughing_Man]

But there's nothing you CAN do to help (not without the asspull of the crucible). It's an existential threat. Not a military one.

 

Personally, I would have recommended a two front strategy:

(strategy A would be the open and obvious one, while providing cover for B )

 

A. Trying to overwhelm single Reaper capital ships, preferably by using special mobile ambush groups led by one or more dreadnoughts (which ideally remain at long range) and reinforced by a large number of speedy frigate / corvette wolf-packs, armed with the heaviest weapons you can mount of them and little else. (shields and armor on a frigate are useless anyway against reapers, so keep only anti-fighter defenses to fight off oculi)

 

The second part of the first front is to systematically lure large numbers of Reapers into specific systems, and then repeat the Alpha relay incident somehow, and blow the entire system with everything in it.

 

The third part is research, try to find vulnerabilities in Reapers and exploit them, or develop more effective weapons against them.

(example: A flying gun - a dreadnought's main gun with only the minimal construction to enable it to travel and shoot accurately,

might be somewhat effective for long range ambush sniper groups focused on single Reapers.)

 

B. Run.

Essentially organize a secret exodus (or hide like Javik's group - hey they almost succeeded if not for indoctrinated traitors), either out of the MW, or to an area that for some reason the Reapers don't like to visits, if because of space hazards or whatever. With the hope that you can live to fight another day and take back the MW probably by developing appropriate technology during the time until the next cycle. (for all their power the Reapers seem rather stagnant technologically)

[This is the End My Friend]

You mean "fight or die"?

 

Well yeah, but this is more about the infantry level, the life or death struggle between individual soldiers.

 

Isn't that what Shepard is more or less?

 

Tell them instead what *not* to do - I.e. fight the Reapers head on, tell them about the collector cruiser and its power, speculate about similar and different tactics due to the fact that they were essentially being controlled by a Harbinger, mention tactics that worked against Reaper ground forces, etc.

 

Yeah, I that would've been cool.

 

I'm not really defending anything, I just don't see that line as all that bad compared to some of his other dialogue. Like comparing the First Contact War with the Genophage. 

[straykat]

Isn't that what Shepard is more or less?

 

Exactly. He doesn't even want to talk to them in the first place. "I'm just a soldier, Anderson."

 

 

Another one of my favorite lines btw. So simple and true. 

 

Speaking of which, I like that this sort of pops up again when you get back to Earth and that one dude tries to make you out to be more than a soldier. 

[Laughing_Man]

Isn't that what Shepard is more or less?

 

Sure. Still makes him looks rather stupid. Even if not his worst line.

[SNascimento]

Personally, I would have recommended a two front strategy:

 

A. Trying to overwhelm single Reaper capital ships, preferably by using special mobile ambush groups led by one or more dreadnoughts (which ideally remain at long range) and reinforced by a large number of speedy frigate / corvette wolf-packs, armed with the heaviest weapons you can mount of them and little else. (shields and armor on a frigate are useless anyway against reapers, so keep only anti-fighter defenses to fight off oculi)

 

The second part of the first front is to systematically lure large numbers of Reapers into specific systems, and then repeat the Alpha relay incident somehow, and blow the entire system with everything in it.

 

The third part is research, try to find vulnerabilities in Reapers and exploit them, or develop more effective weapons against them.

(example: A flying gun - a dreadnought's main gun with only the minimal construction to enable it to travel and shoot accurately,

might be somewhat effective for long range ambush sniper groups focused on single Reapers.)

 

B. Run.

Essentially organize a secret exodus (or hide like Javik's group - hey they almost succeeded if not for indoctrinated traitors), either out of the MW, or to an area that for some reason the Reapers don't like to visits, if because of space hazards or whatever. With the hope that you can live to fight another day and take back the MW probably by developing appropriate technology during the time until the next cycle. (for all their power the Reapers seem rather stagnant technologically)

Plan A is a good plan for dooming everyone.

Plan B has merits. All you have to do is bury something deep enough or/and in multiple places and the Reapers can't find it, that's a proven thing. 
 

[Gwydden]

Exactly. He doesn't even want to talk to them in the first place. "I'm just a soldier, Anderson."

 

Another one of my favorite lines btw. So simple and true. 

 

Speaking of which, I like that this sort of pops up again when you get back to Earth and that one dude tries to make you out to be more than a soldier. 

Problem is, that line is wildly inconsistent with how the games present Shepard: a world altering ubermensch. Just a soldier my ass.

[straykat]

Problem is, that line is wildly inconsistent with how the games present Shepard: a world altering ubermensch. Just a soldier my ass.

 

I think there's a subtle thing going on in ME3 that wants you to believe in that stuff, but it's not true to me. I think it kind of softens you up for the ending to choose something other than destroy. At least, I suspect that's the purpose. Down to the last minute, even TIM is trying to make you feel bad for it. Where he ridicules Anderson as an "An old soldier only able to see the world down the barrel of a gun.."

[Laughing_Man]

Plan A is a good plan for dooming everyone.

Plan B has merits. All you have to do is bury something deep enough or/and in multiple places and the Reapers can't find it, that's a proven thing.

 

Actually I meant using Plan A as a distraction and cover for Plan B.

[This is the End My Friend]

Problem is, that line is wildly inconsistent with how the games present Shepard: a world altering ubermensch. Just a soldier my ass.

 

Well he is just a soldier. He just happens to be the greatest of all time. He's basically the Cerys gwent card of Mass Effect. And now I'm sad I don't have any Photoshop skills because I would totally make a Shepard gwent card. 

[Laughing_Man]

And now I'm sad I don't have any Photoshop skills because I would totally make a Shepard gwent card. 

 

I'll give you a like if you open a Gwent in ME:A thread...

[SKAR]

No more repeating idioms. Example:

Hackett: ...I'll throw everyone who can hold a hammer at it

a little while later

Garrus: ...yeah, maybe someone who can hold a hammer


There are tons more examples of characters repeating lines from other characters, usually using really bad out of date north American slang.

*Face palm* They can say whatever they want. Blame the writers if you have a problem.

[rocklikeafool]

False dichotomy. There's a middle ground between making everyone sound like they're reading off an academic paper and cheesy, cliche dialogue that turns the cringe up to eleven.

 

EDIT: Even in real life, people tend to avoid saying cheesy, cliche things... because they are aware that they are cringeworthy, If I wanted to praise someone leadership skills, I promise you I'd come up with something less awful than "well, you've got this fire, you see.,."

You misunderstand. I would prefer the middle ground.