164 réponses à ce sujet

[LPPrince]

Having seen the twitter feeds of many other BioWare devs, it's probably condoned if anything. Or at the very least justified with some BS about "punching up".

 

A BioWare employee flaunting a mug reading "POC tears", or "feminist tears" or something of that nature though, and it's be a COMPLETELY different story.

 

 

After seeing that I knew not to take Bioware seriously when they talk about acceptance, open-mindedness, bringing people together, and all that stuff. Its just hypocrisy.

 

You can apparently be openly racist, have people file complaints about it, and have nothing happen in punishment as a result.

 

Its disgusting. And I say that as someone the same color as Mr. Heir.

[Kabraxal]

@ Draining Dragon: Heh. That 's just it. I don't really see an edge there myself. I mean, we white males used to run everything, and still run way more than anybody else, and we didn't get there by caring what anybody thought of us. The insecurity of modern whites, males in particular, is something that I find alternately funny or embarrassing, depending on my mood. I was thinking "funny" when I considered getting the mug.

Edit: but, yeah, I know,intellectually, that we're supposed to be PC and not find this stuff funny.

 

At this point, his mug should probably read "while heterosexual male tears" since a lot of the flak for games like Inquisition came from those screaming "SJW!" because Bioware dared have lesbian only romances, a gay only romance, and a transgender character.  Seriously, less than 5 percent of the total game and there were people that went insane over it.  And this is from the same dev that decided to relax their "censorship" and actually show quite a bit of nudity... if anything, Bioware bucked the SJW trend since some of those moments and DLC clothing can be looked at as the "evil" sexualisation (not arguing against those additions just to be clear).   I just don't get it sometimes. 

[PunchFaceReporter]

I'm not even shocked that absolutely nothing happened in regards to Manveer Heir's White Tears mug.

I think the GTA rape lady beats him tbh

[von uber]

I don't really see an edge there myself. I mean, we white males used to run everything, and still run way more than anybody else, and we didn't get there by caring what anybody thought of us. The insecurity of modern whites, males in particular, is something that I find alternately funny or embarrassing, depending on my mood.

Yeah I don't get it myself either, being one of them (and a pretty privileged one at that given my comparative wealth and comfort). I guess people just hate anything that even remotely adversely affects their position in life, real or imagined.

[PunchFaceReporter]

I have a strange feeling this thread is going to mysteriously disapear.

[Gileadan]

I have a strange feeling this thread is going to mysteriously disapear.

*whistles X-Files theme*

[Monk]

At this point, his mug should probably read "while heterosexual male tears" since a lot of the flak for games like Inquisition came from those screaming "SJW!" because Bioware dared have lesbian only romances, a gay only romance, and a transgender character.  Seriously, less than 5 percent of the total game and there were people that went insane over it.  And this is from the same dev that decided to relax their "censorship" and actually show quite a bit of nudity... if anything, Bioware bucked the SJW trend since some of those moments and DLC clothing can be looked at as the "evil" sexualisation (not arguing against those additions just to be clear).   I just don't get it sometimes. 

 

Well, since "fan" is short for "fanatic", no surprise here.

[SimonTheFrog]

"Fan" is a very weird concept to begin with. The core crowd basically wants Baldurs Gate style games back. But with each new game new ppl came on board who don't like or know the olden games but also don't like anything else BioWare is changing up.

So, a lot of passion and a lot of frustration and the occasional major screw-up all over the place.

 

Still, bioware is a massive company nowadays. So you'll get your polished, by-the-numbers experiences, your company talk that is only smooth and never gets to the point, you fabricated hype trains, your disgruntled players.

 

Yada yada.

 

Just hop on board, enjoy the ride. And if you need a break, take five. Just make sure to come back for the next cycle cause there will always be another delicious escalation, fan tears, weak excuses... and you love it.

[Linkenski]

Ever since the promo material of ME3 I have been. It started with the way Casey Hudson went on stage and said "this is all-out galactic war". Instant turnoff but I kept believing it was going to be fantastic. It didn't really happen and I couldn't believe it when I first played ME3 how streamlined and generic it had become with all the autodialogue and generic movie-wannabe stuff.

 

And with the ending I was definitely amazed they actually produced something as profoundly stupid as that, but I was more agitated at this company when I saw the way they handled the backlash; By staying silent and occasionally doing PR-scripted stuff like statements that emphasize the critical reception or talk around the issue at hand or an interview with Bioware employess by Bioware employees who cherry pick the conversation, to writers that project the issue into something as banal as "the fans' favorite character died" and stuff.

 

Just deeply, deeply disappointed. I think I'm playing Bioware's games from now on just knowing to expect less and it's going to take a super well-done project to convince me to believe in this company again. They really have something to prove, and I'm definitely not the only one who thinks that. If anything they had a good run from their old games to KOTOR and ME1 as well as DA:O but maybe it'll be known the day Bioware is no more that it was EA that ran them into the ground.

 

@SimonTheFrog: I genuinely wonder which Bioware game in the last 5 years you played that had polish.

[Furisco]

Ignoring the possibility for Bioware employees to get other jobs, they can still make a living as long as we aren't alienated to the point of total boycotting. Fortunately, we aren't. We aren't you, after all, and whether you but they next game or not I almost certainly will. Bioware hasn't antagonized me at all- far from it- and they have a solid enough reputation despite the hiccups that they can rest quite easily without depending on your magnanimous patronage.

 

Bioware depends on us, but not you. You could die tomorrow and they'd never notice. Most of us wouldn't either. You're just not that important.

Destroyed again.

[Furisco]

Wow, i actually read the posts and saw how quickly people can destroy a thread in this forum.

[Linkenski]

At this point, his mug should probably read "while heterosexual male tears" since a lot of the flak for games like Inquisition came from those screaming "SJW!" because Bioware dared have lesbian only romances, a gay only romance, and a transgender character.  Seriously, less than 5 percent of the total game and there were people that went insane over it.  And this is from the same dev that decided to relax their "censorship" and actually show quite a bit of nudity... if anything, Bioware bucked the SJW trend since some of those moments and DLC clothing can be looked at as the "evil" sexualisation (not arguing against those additions just to be clear).   I just don't get it sometimes. 

The only thing I have with Inquisition in this regard is how it seemed to have more emphasis on the... what can you call it, segregation(?) of sexuality in romances and different accents and skin colors. I don't care about skin colors, personally. It's a fantasy setting where if there's any sense of allegory to history of racial oppression they use elves rather than blacks because it's socially responsible and can be taken without being seen as racism that relates to the real world, and it's not based in history so they have no incentive to be pro-white. But to go back to sexuality, it did bother me but in an overbearing way, that I know they are trying to be inclusive because it's the nature of the game, being an RPG that highly focuses on self-customization, power-fantasy and player-agency in general but where increasingly Bioware gives supporting characters more agency as well, so it's not for the player to decide whether a woman wants him or not or whether they'll be straight for him or not.

 

I disliked it in an overbearing way because I'm a straight white guy and I couldn't help but compare it to ME2 where I had a lot of fun trying out all different romances on subsequent playthroughs, where in DA:I I really only had two options as a male straight character and I had no desire to play as a gay character since i'm attempting to immerse myself. But alas, I understood it; it's because there is parity and something for every type of gamer which is more satisfying across a wider audience. So anything else is greediness.

 

But still, the sense of "inclusivity" did slightly diminish my impression of the game. It's was trying so much to respect everybody that there was also less enjoyment for each player. I welcome the changes, but honestly, I'd rather maybe some day they said "Okay, you have a character who is homosexual by default, and you have 4 options per gender" than trying to squeeze as much which then becomes little in for everybody. I wouldn't personally enjoy playing as a homosexual but I guess I would play it still if I could opt out of romance and the characters were good nonetheless as well as a great plot.

 

I just think DA:I is too transparent in how safe it is in trying to pander to as many people as possible. People jokingly calls it a "high fantasy wonderland" and I have to agree on that sentiment, unfortuantely... no it's not a positive. I guess it's okay since Bioware games are so player-driven, but I couldn't help but prefer how after all I had a clearer defined personality and character arc in other games and that being straight-only (IIRC) in KOTOR2 and ME1 for example enabled a lot of tension between the romanceable characters, that was lacking in DA:I due to how they had to add in a lot of extra dialogue in total which became one or two casual sentences from a character going "So, I've heard you like Cassandra, eh?"

[DeathScepter]

I know I am, mainly because of their removal of off-topic and apparent inability to handle criticism.

 

 

true where would the trolls like me go too without the off topic.

[PunchFaceReporter]

The only thing I have with Inquisition in this regard is how it seemed to have more emphasis on the... what can you call it, segregation(?) of sexuality in romances and different accents and skin colors. I don't care about skin colors, personally. It's a fantasy setting where if there's any sense of allegory to history of racial oppression they use elves rather than blacks because it's socially responsible and can be taken without being seen as racism that relates to the real world, and it's not based in history so they have no incentive to be pro-white. But to go back to sexuality, it did bother me but in an overbearing way, that I know they are trying to be inclusive because it's the nature of the game, being an RPG that highly focuses on self-customization, power-fantasy and player-agency in general but where increasingly Bioware gives supporting characters more agency as well, so it's not for the player to decide whether a woman wants him or not or whether they'll be straight for him or not.

I disliked it in an overbearing way because I'm a straight white guy and I couldn't help but compare it to ME2 where I had a lot of fun trying out all different romances on subsequent playthroughs, where in DA:I I really only had two options as a male straight character and I had no desire to play as a gay character since i'm attempting to immerse myself. But alas, I understood it; it's because there is parity and something for every type of gamer which is more satisfying across a wider audience. So anything else is greediness.

But still, the sense of "inclusivity" did slightly diminish my impression of the game. It's was trying so much to respect everybody that there was also less enjoyment for each player. I welcome the changes, but honestly, I'd rather maybe some day they said "Okay, you have a character who is homosexual by default, and you have 4 options per gender" than trying to squeeze as much which then becomes little in for everybody. I wouldn't personally enjoy playing as a homosexual but I guess I would play it still if I could opt out of romance and the characters were good nonetheless as well as a great plot.

I just think DA:I is too transparent in how safe it is in trying to pander to as many people as possible. People jokingly calls it a "high fantasy wonderland" and I have to agree on that sentiment, unfortuantely... no it's not a positive. I guess it's okay since Bioware games are so player-driven, but I couldn't help but prefer how after all I had a clearer defined personality and character arc in other games and that being straight-only (IIRC) in KOTOR2 and ME1 for example enabled a lot of tension between the romanceable characters, that was lacking in DA:I due to how they had to add in a lot of extra dialogue in total which became one or two casual sentences from a character going "So, I've heard you like Cassandra, eh?"

I agree, I'm a gay guy but I usually only do the straight romances. DAI lacked in that, bit strange considering straight guys probably make up the majority of the fan base.

[Kabraxal]

The only thing I have with Inquisition in this regard is how it seemed to have more emphasis on the... what can you call it, segregation(?) of sexuality in romances and different accents and skin colors. I don't care about skin colors, personally. It's a fantasy setting where if there's any sense of allegory to history of racial oppression they use elves rather than blacks because it's socially responsible and can be taken without being seen as racism that relates to the real world, and it's not based in history so they have no incentive to be pro-white. But to go back to sexuality, it did bother me but in an overbearing way, that I know they are trying to be inclusive because it's the nature of the game, being an RPG that highly focuses on self-customization, power-fantasy and player-agency in general but where increasingly Bioware gives supporting characters more agency as well, so it's not for the player to decide whether a woman wants him or not or whether they'll be straight for him or not.

 

I disliked it in an overbearing way because I'm a straight white guy and I couldn't help but compare it to ME2 where I had a lot of fun trying out all different romances on subsequent playthroughs, where in DA:I I really only had two options as a male straight character and I had no desire to play as a gay character since i'm attempting to immerse myself. But alas, I understood it; it's because there is parity and something for every type of gamer which is more satisfying across a wider audience. So anything else is greediness.

 

But still, the sense of "inclusivity" did slightly diminish my impression of the game. It's was trying so much to respect everybody that there was also less enjoyment for each player. I welcome the changes, but honestly, I'd rather maybe some day they said "Okay, you have a character who is homosexual by default, and you have 4 options per gender" than trying to squeeze as much which then becomes little in for everybody. I wouldn't personally enjoy playing as a homosexual but I guess I would play it still if I could opt out of romance and the characters were good nonetheless as well as a great plot.

 

I just think DA:I is too transparent in how safe it is in trying to pander to as many people as possible. People jokingly calls it a "high fantasy wonderland" and I have to agree on that sentiment, unfortuantely... no it's not a positive. I guess it's okay since Bioware games are so player-driven, but I couldn't help but prefer how after all I had a clearer defined personality and character arc in other games and that being straight-only (IIRC) in KOTOR2 and ME1 for example enabled a lot of tension between the romanceable characters, that was lacking in DA:I due to how they had to add in a lot of extra dialogue in total which became one or two casual sentences from a character going "So, I've heard you like Cassandra, eh?"

 

There is the difference.  You want a more set and defined character.  Dragon Age: Origins and Inquisition are designed to appeal to those of us who love to create our character, the personality, and role play within our confines, not the confines that was set by someone else.  And I wouldn't call Inquisition safe, considering how many people they set off by including lesbians, gays, and transgenders while also refusing to slam religion and politics outright and letting the player make the final decision... and of course, let's not forget the darkness quite evident in the world if you pay attention to what is happening.

[Linkenski]

I agree, I'm a gay guy but I usually only do the straight romances. DAI lacked in that, bit strange considering straight guys probably make up the majority of the fan base.

And this comes back to the fact that Bioware are too desperate to please everyone. I don't think they would be willing to make a gay-only game because what matters to them is the size of the audience and not the promotion for minorities when it really comes down to it. I would like to seem them do it, but this is probably the big criticism I have of the movie and game industry's SJW attitude in general; they are simply jumping on a bandwagon but don't seem to be doing it for themselves or for the people they seem to want to address.

 

Kabraxal. I guess I actually agree. I wish maybe in the future Bioware would give the romanceable characters more agency though so it's not always the player who hits on them until they have sex with you. It would be nice if they had a character who hits on you until you go "I'm not straight, sorry." or whatever. 

[Kroitz]

*whistles X-Files theme*

 

Spoiler

[Seboist]

Having seen the twitter feeds of many other BioWare devs, it's probably condoned if anything. Or at the very least justified with some BS about "punching up".

 

A BioWare employee flaunting a mug reading "POC tears", or "feminist tears" or something of that nature though, and it's be a COMPLETELY different story.

I'm still trying to figure out the precise mental gymnastics required to view the term "colored people" as "racist" but not "people of color". I guess arranging words in a certain order is real offensive somehow.

[General TSAR]

I know I am, mainly because of their removal of off-topic and apparent inability to handle criticism.

Yep.

 

Once they sealed that section, they revealed their true colors.

[PunchFaceReporter]

I'm still trying to figure out the precise mental gymnastics required to view the term "colored people" as "racist" but not "people of color". I guess arranging words in a certain order is real offensive somehow.

Yeah that is a bit strange. Gone from coloured people, go forward 50 years, to people of colour. Where's the logic in that?

[Kabraxal]

And this comes back to the fact that Bioware are too desperate to please everyone. I don't think they would be willing to make a gay-only game because what matters to them is the size of the audience and not the promotion for minorities when it really comes down to it. I would like to seem them do it, but this is probably the big criticism I have of the movie and game industry's SJW attitude in general; they are simply jumping on a bandwagon but don't seem to be doing it for themselves or for the people they seem to want to address.

 

Bioware wanted Juhani as a lesbian romance in KotoR. They had Sky and Fox in Jade Empire (and a multi partner relationship).  They had Liara in ME, Kelly in ME2, and then finally Steve/Kaidan/Traynor in ME3.  In DA:O they had Leliana and Zevran, plus the Pearl.  DA2 everyone was bi (which was probably the worst thing possible) and then DA:I you had Bull, Dorian, Josie, and Sera.  Sooooooooooo... yeah, Inquisition isn't the start of anything.  Bioware has always been at the forefront of having a variety in their romances. 

 

They are one of the few that aren't just "SJWs" hopping on a bandwagon.. in gaming, they pretty much were the bandwagon.

[Linkenski]

Hm. Maybe you're right. But I feel despite of their inclusivity that they had a lot of sexualized and objectified female characters in ME2 and DA2 right around the time when Batman Arkham City also had a lot of sexualization and I think other games in general around that 2010-2012 time-frame until suddenly from 2013 and onwards you have you Sarkeesian and everyone shouting about women rights and stuff and both movies and other games almost go in the opposite direction with representation of female characters, and in that sense I still feel like DA:I was too "response-driven" but maybe DA2 and ME2 were as well from their respective times. In general I think developers who attend panels end up going with the flow from seeing presentations and trendiness and that's important when selling a product of course.

[SnakeCode]

There was definitely an active attempt to make the female characters in DA:I as desexualised as possible. It's even referenced in game, when Iron Bull congratulates Cassandra on wearing practical armor and not boobplate. Which is hilarious considering Bull goes into battle half naked.

[General TSAR]

I'm still trying to figure out the precise mental gymnastics required to view the term "colored people" as "racist" but not "people of color". I guess arranging words in a certain order is real offensive somehow.

Word, and even if it's not offensive given history, it's patronizing as hell.

[SlottsMachine]

 

But I am annoyed at Bioware fans, mainly on this forum. This forum is a disaster of repeat hair, romance, and gripe threads.

 

So you are mad at BioWare for there refusal to properly moderate there forum.